Game Thread: W17: Seahawks @ Whiners 4:25/1:25 FOX and CTV BC and Alberta

[Screamin12th]

If we are going to be a run first team we should be putting draft capital into RBs regardless of what we think we have. The last few years bear this out with all the injuries and we missed out on quite a few good ones too.

Penny was a disastrous pick. I hated it then and i hate it now even more. Fucks sake if your going to take a rb round 1 at least take the best one.



Why rely on guys with injury histories at the toughest position in the game?

I was a little bummed out not grabbing Chubb also but i also thought he would be a lot healthier ( Penny ) than he has been so i was not all that bummed. Thing is every year it bums me out more watching Chubb tearing it up out there.

 

[JMR]

Check out this penalty on Tracy Walker this weekend in the Det/Min game... It was 4th and Goal and he gets a PF penalty on this sack... Couldn't believe they called that on 4th and goal...

Lions' Tracy Walker gets called for phantom penalty in loss to Vikings

After sacking Kirk Cousins, the officials called Tracy Walker for a very questionable roughing the passer penalty in Detroit's week 17 loss to Minnesota.

sports.yahoo.com

That's about as awful as it gets.

I was very surprised on Sunday when KJ didn't get flagged for that huge hit over the middle. There wasn't anything illegal about it, but I was expecting a "looks bad" penalty just due to how hard he nailed him.

 

[MrS]

Adams? Clowney? Brown?

Can't wait to hear which ones you think were bad trades.

Adams is highly overrated and not worth 2 firsts, that was an incredibly stupid trade. We need pass rush do trade for a safety?

Clowney we got for a 3rd, brown also a 3rd? Still, clowney didnt exactly work out.

Harvin, graham, richardson (2nd) all huge busts for us.

Brown is really the only trade that worked out and was worth it.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Adams is highly overrated and not worth 2 firsts, that was an incredibly stupid trade. We need pass rush do trade for a safety?

Clowney we got for a 3rd, brown also a 3rd? Still, clowney didnt exactly work out.

Harvin, graham, richardson (2nd) all huge busts for us.

Brown is really the only trade that worked out and was worth it.

Completely disagree on your Adams take. He is a game changer, and certainly worth a couple of #26 - 32 picks. We need pass rushers and he brings that at a historically unprecedented level. Plus, despite a couple of obvious blown coverages while he was learning the D, his pass coverage is decent. Not great, but not as bad as some proport. Check the numbers on it.

Clowney in addition to what we have would have created an extremely excellent DL. But he priced himself out by ridiculous contract demands. Now he'll be lucky to get another $8 to 11 million "prove it" deal. In retrospect we did overpay slightly for what turned into a 1 year rental but not significantly so.

Graham and Richardson were both overpays but Harvin was the only 1 that was a complete bust for the Seahawks.

 

[Anointed One]

I was a little bummed out not grabbing Chubb also but i also thought he would be a lot healthier ( Penny ) than he has been so i was not all that bummed. Thing is every year it bums me out more watching Chubb tearing it up out there.

Yeah, durability was a strength for Penny coming out of college due to not missing any games with injuries... It's been unfortunate with what he's been enduring since he's come into the NFL... He was on fire before he got hurt last season...

 

[Anointed One]

Completely disagree on your Adams take. He is a game changer, and certainly worth a couple of #26 - 32 picks. We need pass rushers and he brings that at a historically unprecedented level. Plus, despite a couple of obvious blown coverages while he was learning the D, his pass coverage is decent. Not great, but not as bad as some proport. Check the numbers on it.

Clowney in addition to what we have would have created an extremely excellent DL. But he priced himself out by ridiculous contract demands. Now he'll be lucky to get another $8 to 11 million "prove it" deal. In retrospect we did overpay slightly for what turned into a 1 year rental but not significantly so.

Graham and Richardson were both overpays but Harvin was the only 1 that was a complete bust for the Seahawks.

Agreed with everything you just said... Adams has been worth a game or two already in our win column, imo... Marshawn Lynch and Chris Clemons turned out to be great trades in our favor...

 

[MrS]

Completely disagree on your Adams take. He is a game changer, and certainly worth a couple of #26 - 32 picks. We need pass rushers and he brings that at a historically unprecedented level. Plus, despite a couple of obvious blown coverages while he was learning the D, his pass coverage is decent. Not great, but not as bad as some proport. Check the numbers on it.

Clowney in addition to what we have would have created an extremely excellent DL. But he priced himself out by ridiculous contract demands. Now he'll be lucky to get another $8 to 11 million "prove it" deal. In retrospect we did overpay slightly for what turned into a 1 year rental but not significantly so.

Graham and Richardson were both overpays but Harvin was the only 1 that was a complete bust for the Seahawks.

He is a safety that is average in coverage and average at tackling and has terrible hands. we could have gotten 9.5 sacks out of a few different pass rushers and kept our first rounders.

I liked graham but bevell had no clue how to use him and richardson was a complete waste of a 2nd pick.

Im not critiquing all trades, they have made out better trading lower round picks for underrated guys that fit the schemes, the blockbuster trades have almost all been busts.

 

[returnofjakedog]

He is a safety that is average in coverage and average at tackling and has terrible hands. we could have gotten 9.5 sacks out of a few different pass rushers and kept our first rounders.

I liked graham but bevell had no clue how to use him and richardson was a complete waste of a 2nd pick.

Im not critiquing all trades, they have made out better trading lower round picks for underrated guys that fit the schemes, the blockbuster trades have almost all been busts.

Really?? "We could have gotten 9.5 sacks out of a few different pass rushers"?
Please inform me where we could have just magically gotten this from?
We had a total of 28 sacks as an entire team last year. No one had more than 4.
This year the next closest had 6.5 sacks (Reed). That's 3 sacks less than Adams who did it in 4 less games. We have struggled so much to generate pass rush but you make seem to imply it is a plug-n-play situation.
We didn't have the personal to generate a pass rush. Now we do. It took both Dunlap and Adams to get to the point where it is a consistent threat.

We kinda, sorta agree on the other trades that you reference but your disregard of what Adams brings to the team and the impact he has is strange. Literally everyone else can see that his on-field performance had was large positive overall, and he is well ontrack to a HOF career if he continues at this rate (apparently if his shoulders hold up).

 

[MrS]

Really?? "We could have gotten 9.5 sacks out of a few different pass rushers"?

Everson griffin had 6 sacks, ngakoue had 5 and it only took a 2nd rounder to get him, not 2 firsts. We could theoretically had both of them.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Everson griffin had 6 sacks, ngakoue had 5 and it only took a 2nd rounder to get him, not 2 firsts. We could theoretically had both of them.

In that scenerio I'd have assume no Dunlap either since we wouldn't invest heavily in a 3rd DE. There's another 5 sacks in very limited time. Dunlap/Adams appears to be a much more dynamic combo over Griffin/Ngakoue. I look forward to seeing them kick some ass in the coming future and hope they can stay healthy.

More importantly to the point, there is a reason why Schneider and Carroll didn't go after the likes Griffin and Ngakoue and I certainly trust their overall judgement than mine or yours.
I have been right there with everyone else screaming for DL help the last few years (and OL help for years before that) but if they decide that this is right way to go then I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point.
Yeah, there has been some swings and misses along the way but overall we have been able to enjoy rooting for one of the very best franchises in the league in recent memory, and certainly the longest run of sustained success in Seahawk's history.

As far as the draft picks go, yeah it was a high cost but I'll take Adams over a couple of very low 1st rounders. Known commodity >> unknown commodity.

 

[Anointed One]

Everson griffin had 6 sacks, ngakoue had 5 and it only took a 2nd rounder to get him, not 2 firsts. We could theoretically had both of them.

Carroll is already on record stating that Everson is a good player but he didn't fit into their defensive scheme on defense...

Crazy how you're still complaining... We're 12-4 and are in the top 5 in the NFL w/ sacks over the past 7 weeks... And you're still complaining about our pass rush... We also have Carson, Penny, Hyde and Collins going into the postseason and you're still complaining about the RB position... I guess I shouldn't be surprised...

 

[Anointed One]

Everson griffin had 6 sacks, ngakoue had 5 and it only took a 2nd rounder to get him, not 2 firsts. We could theoretically had both of them.

Also, as a reminder, you were 100% in on signing Clowney (See Clowney thread)... How many sacks did Clowney get with Houston before he went to IR due to surgery? I'll help you with that... Zero... Good thing Carroll/Schneider didn't follow your advice and commit to Clowney because we wouldn't have been able to bring in Adams/Dunlap...

 

[MrS]

In that scenerio I'd have assume no Dunlap either since we wouldn't invest heavily in a 3rd DE. There's another 5 sacks in very limited time. Dunlap/Adams appears to be a much more dynamic combo over Griffin/Ngakoue. I look forward to seeing them kick some ass in the coming future and hope they can stay healthy.

More importantly to the point, there is a reason why Schneider and Carroll didn't go after the likes Griffin and Ngakoue and I certainly trust their overall judgement than mine or yours.
I have been right there with everyone else screaming for DL help the last few years (and OL help for years before that) but if they decide that this is right way to go then I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point.
Yeah, there has been some swings and misses along the way but overall we have been able to enjoy rooting for one of the very best franchises in the league in recent memory, and certainly the longest run of sustained success in Seahawk's history.

As far as the draft picks go, yeah it was a high cost but I'll take Adams over a couple of very low 1st rounders. Known commodity >> unknown commodity.

We wouldnt have needed dunlap, we had to trade for him because we didnt shore up the DL. Maybe we dont have a historically bad defense for the first 8 games if we had.

As a fan, its our right to criticize what our team does. Accepting everything they do and taking a "im too dumb to think for myself" stance is intellectually lazy.

1st round picks are important, even the low ones. Its definitely hurt the team to have gotten almost 0 out of our first round picks for the majority of schneiders tenure.

Also, as a reminder, you were 100% in on signing Clowney (See Clowney thread)... How many sacks did Clowney get with Houston before he went to IR due to surgery? I'll help you with that... Zero... Good thing Carroll/Schneider didn't follow your advice and commit to Clowney because we wouldn't have been able to bring in Adams/Dunlap...

He didnt have the sack numbers, but he had a huge impact on games and scored 2 TDs? Again, maybe we dont have a historically bad defense if we had kept him. Hell, maybe we have a 1st round bye. Hindsight is 20/20

 

[HaroldSeattle]

He didnt have the sack numbers, but he had a huge impact on games and scored 2 TDs? Again, maybe we dont have a historically bad defense if we had kept him. Hell, maybe we have a 1st round bye. Hindsight is 20/20

I'm pretty sure if they had signed him you'd be listing it as one more fuck up they committed.

 

[MrS]

I'm pretty sure if they had signed him you'd be listing it as one more fuck up they committed.

Can you back that up with anything? I liked the trade for him and thought they should have kepy him.

 

[returnofjakedog]

We wouldnt have needed dunlap, we had to trade for him because we didnt shore up the DL. Maybe we dont have a historically bad defense for the first 8 games if we had.

As a fan, its our right to criticize what our team does. Accepting everything they do and taking a "im too dumb to think for myself" stance is intellectually lazy.

1st round picks are important, even the low ones. Its definitely hurt the team to have gotten almost 0 out of our first round picks for the majority of schneiders tenure.

He didnt have the sack numbers, but he had a huge impact on games and scored 2 TDs? Again, maybe we dont have a historically bad defense if we had kept him. Hell, maybe we have a 1st round bye. Hindsight is 20/20

You are correct. We "wouldn't have needed" Dunlap in that scenerio.

Thankfully the current scenerio played out and the defense is now better for it.

Your accusation of me being "intellectually lazy" because I accept Schneider's and Carroll's judgement over yours and mine is ridiculous. As I stated, I have been right there screaming for OL and DL help for years now. But for you to just assume that your judgement is somehow better than theirs is beyond ridiculous. I'll just ignore your additional insults. Try harder next time.

Bottom line: Adams/Dunlap >> Griffin/Ngas. That was JS and PC's judgement and I think the vast majority here would agree with that sentiment.

Maybe you should re-evaluate your stances and try to figure out why you are always opposing essentially every move the team does. Being a contrarian just to be a contrarian is more than a bit redundant at this point.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Can you back that up with anything? I liked the trade for him and thought they should have kepy him.

He's under preformed this season and has been nowhere close to last years performance, so why do you think they should of kept him? Dunlap has done better IMO. Seahawks made the right choice.

 

[MrS]

You are correct. We "wouldn't have needed" Dunlap in that scenerio.

Thankfully the current scenerio played out and the defense is now better for it.

It played out that we lost 3 out of 4 games mid season, maybe that doesnt happen if our DL is shored up earlier.

Your accusation of me being "intellectually lazy" because I accept Schneider's and Carroll's judgement over yours and mine is ridiculous. As I stated, I have been right there screaming for OL and DL help for years now. But for you to just assume that your judgement is somehow better than theirs is beyond ridiculous. I'll just ignore your additional insults. Try harder next time.

Most posters here are the same, its not at you in particular.

Bottom line: Adams/Dunlap >> Griffin/Ngas. That was JS and PC's judgement and I think the vast majority here would agree with that sentiment.

Griffin/ngas +2 first rounders. We will see how that shakes out.

Maybe you should re-evaluate your stances and try to figure out why you are always opposing essentially every move the team does. Being a contrarian just to be a contrarian is more than a bit redundant at this point.

Im not opposing every move, just verbal about the things i do disagree with.

He's under preformed this season and has been nowhere close to last years performance, so why do you think they should of kept him? Dunlap has done better IMO. Seahawks made the right choice.

I thought they should have at the time.

 

[Anointed One]

I'm pretty sure if they had signed him you'd be listing it as one more fuck up they committed.

100%... Someone who is pessimistic all the time - easy money....

 

[Podunkparte]

Can you back that up with anything?

Exhibit A: Your entire posting history.