Triple Espresso of Coffee Talk

[forty_three]

This is either an accident or a rogue operator of a missile battery acting out of line. It carries even less water than blaming Obama & Hillary for Benghazi.

Another option is tragic mistake in reaction to fires being stoked recently. Some kid with 20 year old missile tech sitting in a suburb being told that the white devil is coming by air is not going to make the best choices. Not really an accident per se - someone pulled that trigger and hit their target. And not a rogue, the person was most likely following orders.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Another option is tragic mistake in reaction to fires being stoked recently. Some kid with 20 year old missile tech sitting in a suburb being told that the white devil is coming by air is not going to make the best choices. Not really an accident per se - someone pulled that trigger and hit their target. And not a rogue, the person was most likely following orders.

ie ... a trump provocation caused a fog of war accident scenario

 

[thedddd]

Yep about sums this all up.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Another option is tragic mistake in reaction to fires being stoked recently. Some kid with 20 year old missile tech sitting in a suburb being told that the white devil is coming by air is not going to make the best choices. Not really an accident per se - someone pulled that trigger and hit their target. And not a rogue, the person was most likely following orders.

And I'm sure that kid has likely been shot by now.

I'm just dismissive of the idea that the fact we weren't appeasing hardline nutjobs anymore is the straight line to this incident. Iran-US relations have gotten hot in the past. The country was on an "Axis of Evil" list at the same time their next door neighbour was getting shocked & awed into Freedom! and managed to keep to themselves. To act like this was some sort of known possible consequence and trying to push a narrative that he harbours responsibility is just silly to me. It's sillier that our national taxpayer-funded broadcaster are the ones playing tabloid. Leave it for CNN.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

 

[thedddd]

^ I was going to add that same twitter post as part of the onion comment above and forgot to paste it in.

 

[Darkstone42]

And I'm sure that kid has likely been shot by now.

I'm just dismissive of the idea that the fact we weren't appeasing hardline nutjobs anymore is the straight line to this incident. Iran-US relations have gotten hot in the past. The country was on an "Axis of Evil" list at the same time their next door neighbour was getting shocked & awed into Freedom! and managed to keep to themselves. To act like this was some sort of known possible consequence and trying to push a narrative that he harbours responsibility is just silly to me. It's sillier that our national taxpayer-funded broadcaster are the ones playing tabloid. Leave it for CNN.

There is an enormous gap between "appeasing hardline nutjobs," and tearing up a diplomatic agreement and instead assassinating their second-in-command. And I'm sorry, but no matter who's the commander in chief at the time a decision like that is made, every event which follows should add to the scrutiny on them. World leaders don't get passes, and shouldn't, even if it's not "their fault" when something bad happens. Their actions and inactions carry too much weight for that.

Trump is an impulsive tough guy as a "leader," and that impulsiveness increased military tensions with someone we've shown we can take a diplomatic approach with. Accidents which occur in periods of increased tension can be blamed on the actions which led to increased tension, at least in part.

Trump is bad at this job. A tragedy followed another bad decision. Connecting the dots between the two, even if the link isn't a direct one, is not unfair.

 

[Darkstone42]

Basically, my philosophy is to err on the side of being unfairly critical of anyone with power. Because they all need to do better. But especially the orange incompetent with the most power.

 

[forty_three]

So, Quid Pro Quo to rig a trial about Quid Pro Quo?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

There is an enormous gap between "appeasing hardline nutjobs," and tearing up a diplomatic agreement and instead assassinating their second-in-command. And I'm sorry, but no matter who's the commander in chief at the time a decision like that is made, every event which follows should add to the scrutiny on them. World leaders don't get passes, and shouldn't, even if it's not "their fault" when something bad happens. Their actions and inactions carry too much weight for that.

Trump is an impulsive tough guy as a "leader," and that impulsiveness increased military tensions with someone we've shown we can take a diplomatic approach with. Accidents which occur in periods of increased tension can be blamed on the actions which led to increased tension, at least in part.

Trump is bad at this job. A tragedy followed another bad decision. Connecting the dots between the two, even if the link isn't a direct one, is not unfair.

If Iran wanted to retaliate for the deal termination the retaliation was to restart their nuclear program in full. Being pissbabies about it by engaging in a terror campaign and, dumbest of all, trying to invade an American embassy again was suicide and the guy who was directing those actions paid the price.

Arguing that breaking the deal was always going to lead to a terror campaign is something I simply don't concur with. The regime decided to act out in a way that was always going to draw a counter-reaction. That shit's on them.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Basically, my philosophy is to err on the side of being unfairly critical of anyone with power. Because they all need to do better. But especially the orange incompetent with the most power.

Absolutely and then there is the issue of accountability. It really does no good to blame the Iranian leaders for this; they have no one to answer to (for now). Voters can hold Trump accountable and thus he needs to be scrutinized as there are others that could be doing his job in a year.

He destabilized a country and then, surprise, surprise, they acted in an unstable manner. He either knew something like this could be a consequence of his actions (obviously not EXACTLY this) and just didn't care. Negligence. Or he didn't think that by killing their 2nd in command that the country might descend into violence and bad decisions. Incompetent. Either way he bears a share of the responsibility for this.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

 

[dash]

Originally one embassy targeted, last night at a rally he said embassies, now today he's saying four embassies. Sounds like a guy just making stuff up.

 

[dare2be]

Originally one embassy targeted, last night at a rally he said embassies, now today he's saying four embassies. Sounds like a guy just making stuff up.

Leaders of totalitarian regimes tend to do that in an attempt to control the narrative.

 

[dash]

 

[elocomotive]

Trump is bad at this job.

I can't think of a job in this city that he wouldn't have been fired from simply because of his Twitter account, to say nothing to the classlessness and bullying he exhibits there.

...And that's not even getting to his actual performance.

Excellent post overall, Mr. @Darkstone42

 

[elocomotive]

Arguing that breaking the deal was always going to lead to a terror campaign is something I simply don't concur with

He didn't argue for that.
He didn't even out and out say it was wrong.
He said basically scrutiny is justified.

...And I'm sorry, but no matter who's the commander in chief at the time a decision like that is made, every event which follows should add to the scrutiny on them.

Stay away from the straw men.

 

[forty_three]

Under pressure, Iran admits it shot down jetliner by mistake

There it is.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Under pressure, Iran admits it shot down jetliner by mistake

There it is.

They need to go above and beyond to get remains repatriated (they don't recognize dual citizenships so they may be refusing to release Iranian expats' remains) and get working on a compensation package. Go full mea culpa and they might get some goodwill out of this.

 

[dash]

The letter asserts that in several extended public statements during the past few months, Mr. Barr has disregarded “bedrock obligations for government lawyers,” including “to avoid even the appearance of partiality and impropriety, and to avoid manifesting bias, prejudice, or partisanship in the exercise of official responsibilities.”

New York City Bar Association Urges Congress to Commence Formal Inquiries into Conduct of Attorney General William P. Barr