Training Camps Start Officially

[WiggyRuss]

some interesting stuff from McMEnamin

Tyronn Lue told me there were five teams' after-timeout plays he studied as nauseam in the offseason to try to expand his playbook: Boston (Brad Stevens), San Antonio (Gregg Popovich), Dallas (Rick Carlisle) and Portland (Terry Stotts).

I thought that was interesting------ Those are def- among my favorite/best coaches--- obviously Pop- but Carlisle i think is #2-- and Stevens is DEFINITELY one of the best young coaches in the league- Celtics got a gem there.

Dave McMenamin ESPN Staff Writer
Kyrie Irving on Ty Lue: "I know he has an incredible game plan for us. I know we're going to be running our a-- off."


---this is exciting too---- Ty Lue having a full offseason to implement his own system. Looks like the Cavs are gonna run a little more. Its gonna be FUN watching a guy like Kyrie who excels at playing both on and off the ball operate in an offense that is more fast paced with him and LEBron at the controls.

 

[logic]

My expectations for the Pistons is some decent improvement from their 44-38 record last year. They added depth and have Harris for the full season. I'm expecting them to be at or just above 50 wins. This will get them in the playoffs hopefully with home court for the first round.
Hopes for the team is to make it back to the ECF. I don't believe they have the firepower to beat the Cavs yet to make the Finals, but hell, I didn't think anyone was beating the Lakers in 2004 either.

 

[WiggyRuss]

My expectations for the Pistons is some decent improvement from their 44-38 record last year. They added depth and have Harris for the full season. I'm expecting them to be at or just above 50 wins. This will get them in the playoffs hopefully with home court for the first round.
Hopes for the team is to make it back to the ECF. I don't believe they have the firepower to beat the Cavs yet to make the Finals, but hell, I didn't think anyone was beating the Lakers in 2004 either.

At first blush- 50 wins seems outrageous - but the more you look at the details the more its clear that the Pistons really have a solid overall roster- and it all obviously begins with Andre Drummond who I think is clearly one of the very best players in the East- and outside of Cousins and maybe Gasol/DeAndre- probably the NBA's best center.

Stanley Johnson is a huge key in my opinion for you guys. He is still so young- but if he takes that next step I could see the Pistons scratching on the door to 50 wins.

 

[Bulletz]

I think the Wiz win 45ish games this year and grab the 7 or 8 seed and lose first round.

My best case scenario is probably that Scottie brings it all together, we stay healthy, Oubre, Satoransky and Mahinmi bring fire off the bench, we win 50-55 games and battle to the ECF only to be annihilated by Cleveland.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think the Wiz win 45ish games this year and grab the 7 or 8 seed and lose first round.

My best case scenario is probably that Scottie brings it all together, we stay healthy, Oubre, Satoransky and Mahinmi bring fire off the bench, we win 50-55 games and battle to the ECF only to be annihilated by Cleveland.

i think it all comes down to Wall and Beal and how they interact and play together. Those guys have the talent to have one of the very best back courts in the entire league- a back court that could carry you to 48 win season---- but it seems like there are some underlying issues there between those two. Wall just doesnt seem like he is a great leader and doesnt have a great head on his shoulders.

Mahimi was an underated signing as he can play some very solid D and can rebound and the Wiz def needed some young legs in the front court.

AS far as upside for the Wiz- Otto Porter Jr. has been a bust in my opinion- but there is still time for him to salvage a decent career. A performance that was just decent- and becoming a league average small forward- would help the Wizards in a humongous way- but i think its asking a lot.

 

[Bulletz]

i think it all comes down to Wall and Beal and how they interact and play together. Those guys have the talent to have one of the very best back courts in the entire league- a back court that could carry you to 48 win season---- but it seems like there are some underlying issues there between those two. Wall just doesnt seem like he is a great leader and doesnt have a great head on his shoulders.

It's a concern if they can't work it out. They are both young, talented, and Type A's. I don't think Wall is a horrible leader, but he and Beal definitely have some issues and it's his team and his responsibility to squash it. Fingers crossed that happens.

 

[trojanfan12]

no time for THAT short novel, huh...?

I only read quality work.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I only read quality work.

Maybe if he went more " Where the Wild things are " (338 words ), instead of " The Wheel of time " ( 4 mil + ) more folks would skim the novels he posts.

* dramatic pause*

Naaaaaaa, not even then...lol

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

some interesting stuff from McMEnamin

Tyronn Lue told me there were five teams' after-timeout plays he studied as nauseam in the offseason to try to expand his playbook: Boston (Brad Stevens), San Antonio (Gregg Popovich), Dallas (Rick Carlisle) and Portland (Terry Stotts).

I thought that was interesting------ Those are def- among my favorite/best coaches--- obviously Pop- but Carlisle i think is #2-- and Stevens is DEFINITELY one of the best young coaches in the league- Celtics got a gem there.

Dave McMenamin ESPN Staff Writer
Kyrie Irving on Ty Lue: "I know he has an incredible game plan for us. I know we're going to be running our a-- off."


---this is exciting too---- Ty Lue having a full offseason to implement his own system. Looks like the Cavs are gonna run a little more. Its gonna be FUN watching a guy like Kyrie who excels at playing both on and off the ball operate in an offense that is more fast paced with him and LEBron at the controls.

I could see a lineup of Kyrie, Felder, Shump, Bron and Frye/Thompson running the shit out of teams.

But, could you really play that small?

That would be a micro mini backcourt.

 

[Heatles84]

Paul Pierce on "super teams" and super teams in the NBA: "We're a super team, Golden State is a super team. And, as Derrick Rose said, the Knicks are a super team. So there's at least three."

That's cute that he thinks the Clippers are a super team, sorry Mecca. On paper the Knicks look like a super team, but I wonder what the over/under is of the amount of games that Rose and Noah play collectively. I say 70.

 

[Heatles84]

How's the talent out there in NY? Bay Area is sadly lacking. Vegas is where it's at.

The stories that I have.

 

[Heatles84]

ill give you the condensed version

1. Its awesome how great shape the NBA is in with the 2 best players and teams headed for a 3rd straight Finals matchup that the league office has to absolutely LOVE---- advertisers have to absolutely love----and fans WITHOUT A DOUBT absolutely love-- not since the days of Bird/Magic have we seen a legit rivalry on this level extend up all the way to the NBA Finals. Its amazing and doesnt happen that often a

2. Its awesome that a lot of the teams, players, owners etc. in the team that i like are doing well and in good shape- MKG and Jordan in Charlotte, Mavs and Cuban in Dallas, Memphis signing Parsons and on the up, - get to watch my favorite non Cav Russell Westbrook go on a tear etc, Pacers and Bird seem to be on the up and up.

3. Its awesome that a lot of teams that i dont like suck and are irrelevant or never met expectations like the Heat, Lakers, Wiz, Bulls, Knicks. I dont really like Portland either and while some may claim they are on the up and up- they have the 2nd most expensive team in the elague and it is really not that good- Crabbe and Turner? what a joke.

4. Only teams that i dnot really like that took steps up are the Pistons and Celtics and both are still no threat- at least not yet.


if you like the whole brevity thing- to sum it up - the league is freaking awesome right now!.

That's the "condensed" version?

 

[Heatles84]

I expect 28-32 wins from my team. Here's hoping for a top 5 pick this year.

Bonus: Trading McRoberts away for peanuts. Whom coincidentally enough is already injured in training camp. Son of a bitch.

 

[bksballer89]

I expect 28-32 wins from my team. Here's hoping for a top 5 pick this year.

Bonus: Trading McRoberts away for peanuts. Whom coincidentally enough is already injured in training camp. Son of a bitch.

I would go a little higher. I say 33-38

 

[Heatles84]

I would go a little higher. I say 33-38

That's fair. I'd rather just get a top 5 pick this year and miss the playoffs then just barely make it in. Then again with the way the East is set up this year, a winning record may be required to make the playoffs.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I expect 28-32 wins from my team. Here's hoping for a top 5 pick this year.

Bonus: Trading McRoberts away for peanuts. Whom coincidentally enough is already injured in training camp. Son of a bitch.

as we saw in the offseason- especially with McRoberts on the books for BOTH this year AND next year- just giving him away is not even possible. You would need to attach an asset to do so.

Miami does have its 1st rounder this year- however- i agree with you guys that their win total will be somewhere between about 28 and 38 - which means it will have pretty much no chance of being a top 5 selection.--- as i have said numerous times- the worst place to be in the NBA is in the middle- not good enough to compete, not bad enough to get that truly elite guy in the draft- however- as we saw with Winslow- guys do drop- and you without a doubt can get a high impact player later on in the lotto if you are lucky and good.

NBA Future Drafts Detailed - RealGM

that site does a great job of showing ever teams future obligations- picks going in and out. The rule you always have to remember is that you are NOT allowed to trade 1st rounders in consecutive seasons- so AT LEAST every other year you would have a first round pick (the "Stepien Rule"- named after a Cavs owner who traded away so many future picks that David Stern actually awarded the succeeding owner of the Cavs with extra first rounders)



Some of the more intriguing picks I saw that might/might not transfer and the biggest outstanding picks that have been dealt?

----- Chicago- in the Deng deal- got a 1st rounder from the Cavs that was originally from the Kings--- it has never transferred because of protection and is top 10 protected this year. If it does not transfer it becomes a 2nd rounder. That would be a major coup for the Bulls to get a #11-#15 pick from that deal if the Kings are not one of the 10 worst teams in the league and would definitely be an opportunity missed on behalf of the Cavs. Cavs blew that one- how nice would a late lotto young PG or big man be to develop?

the Lakers pick that transfers to the Sixers is top 3 protected. If the Lakers are one of the 3 worst teams in the league they could keep the pick and add one more big time rebuilding chip before beginning to get good again. Very interested to see that one. The Lakers are interesting- they owe 2 first rounders- one to Philly next year- and one to Orlando--- however- if they dont convey that first rounder to Philly (because its top 3 protected), the pick they owe to Orlando in the first round becomes extinguished and becomes 2nd rounders....

Miami owes the Suns 2 first rounders that are lightly protected for Dragic. 2018 first rounder and 2021 first rounder--- Riley should be long gone by then. I think it can be very dangerous trading multiple first rounders so far in the future with such light protections (the first pick is protected 1-7, the second first rounder is unprotected)--- LONG TIME though

Boston is LOADED- they get to swap picks with Brooklyn this year for the upcoming 2017 draft. They ourgith get Brooklyns first rounder in 2018. That is 2 huge assets for Boston to work with in a potential trade. Boston also has future first rounders from Memphis , and the Clippers- and a boat load of 2nd rounders. This team is PRIMED to make a deal.

Clippers owe their 2017 and 2019 first rounderse to other team- smartly both picks are lotto protected.

The Sixers have a TON of picks too--- obviously the coveted #1 from the Lakers that will transfer if it is not in the top 3, a first rounder-swap-right from the Kings this year, Sacramento's first rounder in 2019, and EIGHT additional 2nd round picks.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That's fair. I'd rather just get a top 5 pick this year and miss the playoffs then just barely make it in. Then again with the way the East is set up this year, a winning record may be required to make the playoffs.

totally agree- worst place in the league is to be around 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th place in your conference----- unless you are a team like Philly or the Lakers or Suns who are done or nearly done with asset acquisition and are now building towards the future---- you cant keep stunting that growth indefinitely.

 

[Heatles84]

totally agree- worst place in the league is to be around 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th place in your conference----- unless you are a team like Philly or the Lakers or Suns who are done or nearly done with asset acquisition and are now building towards the future---- you cant keep stunting that growth indefinitely.

I'll take my projected win scenario and hope that Whiteside, Winslow, Richardson and Johnson gel and mature with one another. I haven't even bothered to look, but I don't know what the 2017 draft looks like in terms of athletic players that can switch between the 3 and 4, because that's what Miami needs. With the aforementioned names sans Whiteside, you can switch them all at the guard position with Winslow likely becoming the starting 3.

 

[Heatles84]

as we saw in the offseason- especially with McRoberts on the books for BOTH this year AND next year- just giving him away is not even possible. You would need to attach an asset to do so.

Miami does have its 1st rounder this year- however- i agree with you guys that their win total will be somewhere between about 28 and 38 - which means it will have pretty much no chance of being a top 5 selection.--- as i have said numerous times- the worst place to be in the NBA is in the middle- not good enough to compete, not bad enough to get that truly elite guy in the draft- however- as we saw with Winslow- guys do drop- and you without a doubt can get a high impact player later on in the lotto if you are lucky and good.

NBA Future Drafts Detailed - RealGM

that site does a great job of showing ever teams future obligations- picks going in and out. The rule you always have to remember is that you are NOT allowed to trade 1st rounders in consecutive seasons- so AT LEAST every other year you would have a first round pick (the "Stepien Rule"- named after a Cavs owner who traded away so many future picks that David Stern actually awarded the succeeding owner of the Cavs with extra first rounders)



Some of the more intriguing picks I saw that might/might not transfer and the biggest outstanding picks that have been dealt?

----- Chicago- in the Deng deal- got a 1st rounder from the Cavs that was originally from the Kings--- it has never transferred because of protection and is top 10 protected this year. If it does not transfer it becomes a 2nd rounder. That would be a major coup for the Bulls to get a #11-#15 pick from that deal if the Kings are not one of the 10 worst teams in the league and would definitely be an opportunity missed on behalf of the Cavs. Cavs blew that one- how nice would a late lotto young PG or big man be to develop?

the Lakers pick that transfers to the Sixers is top 3 protected. If the Lakers are one of the 3 worst teams in the league they could keep the pick and add one more big time rebuilding chip before beginning to get good again. Very interested to see that one. The Lakers are interesting- they owe 2 first rounders- one to Philly next year- and one to Orlando--- however- if they dont convey that first rounder to Philly (because its top 3 protected), the pick they owe to Orlando in the first round becomes extinguished and becomes 2nd rounders....

Miami owes the Suns 2 first rounders that are lightly protected for Dragic. 2018 first rounder and 2021 first rounder--- Riley should be long gone by then. I think it can be very dangerous trading multiple first rounders so far in the future with such light protections (the first pick is protected 1-7, the second first rounder is unprotected)--- LONG TIME though

Boston is LOADED- they get to swap picks with Brooklyn this year for the upcoming 2017 draft. They ourgith get Brooklyns first rounder in 2018. That is 2 huge assets for Boston to work with in a potential trade. Boston also has future first rounders from Memphis , and the Clippers- and a boat load of 2nd rounders. This team is PRIMED to make a deal.

Clippers owe their 2017 and 2019 first rounderse to other team- smartly both picks are lotto protected.

The Sixers have a TON of picks too--- obviously the coveted #1 from the Lakers that will transfer if it is not in the top 3, a first rounder-swap-right from the Kings this year, Sacramento's first rounder in 2019, and EIGHT additional 2nd round picks.

The bolded is why I get on people for why we didn't trade away McRoberts to give Wade more money.

He definitely won't be tradeable this coming season. But next season he'll become a more "valuable" commodity given that he's an expiring contract.

And I use the word valuable very loosely in this context.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'll take my projected win scenario and hope that Whiteside, Winslow, Richardson and Johnson gel and mature with one another. I haven't even bothered to look, but I don't know what the 2017 draft looks like in terms of athletic players that can switch between the 3 and 4, because that's what Miami needs. With the aforementioned names sans Whiteside, you can switch them all at the guard position with Winslow likely becoming the starting 3.

Winslow really really reminds me of MKG....maybe not quite the athlete MKG is- and i think Winslow's shot is slightly better. Winslow did not garner much defensive attention last year. This year that will likely change with JJ, Wade and likely Bosh, gone.

Winslow can either become a Tony Allen type if his offense doesnt really develop- or he can really become something special if he can learn how to shoot. That will be interesting to see.