Training Camp Thread

[Pattersonca65]

I don't think any legitimate NFL fan should be surprised by any NFL team winning 6 games, at least in the sense that someone thinks they couldn't get to that. It's a fickle league.

We still have a pretty good core group of players. That being said, I could change my mind after week two if they look downright horrible the first two weeks of the season. But I haven't seen the starters even play a half of football yet,

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Colin Kaepernick impresses John Elway throughout peaceful joint practices – 49ers Hot Read

Interesting tidbit:

Elway had Baalke had dinner together Wednesday night, and Elway said most of their talk was of the personal variety. However, Elway noted: “Obviously there are always different things talked about as far as teams, where we can help them and they can help us,” Elway said. “He’s done a tremendous job with the Niners.”

Broncos are shifting to a 3-4 D, and their projected starting RDE, Garrett Wolfe, is facing a four-game PED suspension. Von Miller is very close to TJE (admittedly a small point if there wasn't need at the position). I wonder if they talked trade there. I'd love to move TJE for something, and Denver seems like a possible landing spot.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

We still have a pretty good core group of players. That being said, I could change my mind after week two if they look downright horrible the first two weeks of the season. But I haven't seen the starters even play a half of football yet,

I don't think we're terrible, and I think we will surprise teams on certain weeks. But the amount of talent we have lost is totally unprecedented, and unless the young guys all step in and play very well, we're going to struggle to match last year's record. Especially if the OL can't get its act together....

 

[purguy12]

I don't think we're terrible, and I think we will surprise teams on certain weeks. But the amount of talent we have lost is totally unprecedented, and unless the young guys all step in and play very well, we're going to struggle to match last year's record. Especially if the OL can't get its act together....

I have no clue what to expect from this team. I just want to see us get better through out the year and maybe surprise and shock some people. I think we can finish 2nd in the division if things go right and we can also finish last if things go bad.

 

[deep9er]

Colin Kaepernick impresses John Elway throughout peaceful joint practices – 49ers Hot Read

Interesting tidbit:

Elway had Baalke had dinner together Wednesday night, and Elway said most of their talk was of the personal variety. However, Elway noted: “Obviously there are always different things talked about as far as teams, where we can help them and they can help us,” Elway said. “He’s done a tremendous job with the Niners.”

Broncos are shifting to a 3-4 D, and their projected starting RDE, Garrett Wolfe, is facing a four-game PED suspension. Von Miller is very close to TJE (admittedly a small point if there wasn't need at the position). I wonder if they talked trade there. I'd love to move TJE for something, and Denver seems like a possible landing spot.

Do they need a NT too?

The better question is......What would we ask of them? I'd think future draft picks cause they won't give up Miller.

 

[deep9er]

I have no clue what to expect from this team. I just want to see us get better through out the year and maybe surprise and shock some people. I think we can finish 2nd in the division if things go right and we can also finish last if things go bad.

was still holding on to 9-7; but if Brooks is gone TOO........cause the pass rush for the D side is key, and combined with Aldon's loss, too much to overcome.

So agree at very least, show improvement as the season goes on. Problem is, the schedule is very tough at the beginning, so it might be hard to notice improvements, if we start off losing?

 

[purguy12]

Ok cuts are starting to be made and its time to pick up a tackle and a guard. Colts just released Guard Donald Adams. I know he is injury prone but we should bring him in. We need to add competition. We need some new guys. Keep an eye on teams these next 2 days.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

We've got to put Brandon Thomas in the starting lineup, either at LG and we move Boone to RG, or at RG. He can't be worse than Silberman, and we might as well get him some seasoning as bad as the OL has been. We have got to address the right side of the line.

 

[purguy12]

DT project Okoye has been cut. we are too deep there for him to make this team.

 

[deep9er]

DT project Okoye has been cut. we are too deep there for him to make this team.

not surprising, predicted it from the get go. nothing against Okoye who apparently made good progress, but he was simply too far behind on experience.

Seems like ST's is the only way to make it from nothing to an NFL roster? P, PK, Snapper, or returner? Even returner isn't easy granted Hayne is on the verge. Speaking of Hayne, for a big guy he has a little wiggle to him, but he's also a tough runner, able to break tackles.

 

[deep9er]

We've got to put Brandon Thomas in the starting lineup, either at LG and we move Boone to RG, or at RG. He can't be worse than Silberman, and we might as well get him some seasoning as bad as the OL has been. We have got to address the right side of the line.

they're still letting him "get his feet under him", or something like that. meaning he's still injured more than we realize. So he couldn't get into much this off-season, as much as we ALL wanted. As such, we can't rush him in the line-up, even though we all think he's an upgrade.

So apparently, this IR drafting isn't just a one year wait. Seemed like none of them started off strong the very next season?

 

[purguy12]

not surprising, predicted it from the get go. nothing against Okoye who apparently made good progress, but he was simply too far behind on experience.

Seems like ST's is the only way to make it from nothing to an NFL roster? P, PK, Snapper, or returner? Even returner isn't easy granted Hayne is on the verge. Speaking of Hayne, for a big guy he has a little wiggle to him, but he's also a tough runner, able to break tackles.

Yes he is, i would like to see him get his pad level a little lower. Runs straight up at times. Overall i like what I see. He does have some nice wiggle for a big guy.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

they're still letting him "get his feet under him", or something like that. meaning he's still injured more than we realize. So he couldn't get into much this off-season, as much as we ALL wanted. As such, we can't rush him in the line-up, even though we all think he's an upgrade.

So apparently, this IR drafting isn't just a one year wait. Seemed like none of them started off strong the very next season?

How many rookies start off strong in their first year? And outside the first round? It's a pretty short list.

 

[deep9er]

How many rookies start off strong in their first year? And outside the first round? It's a pretty short list.

Again, the reason you draft an IR player is because you think he's solid value for next season. So you sacrifice his first season cause you're expecting a higher performance the next. But performance is only one factor, time is another.

Not worried about his performance, but we're losing even more time. While he was expected to shore up this shaky O-line, we have to keep waiting.

If we don't get 'solid value' and/OR it takes MORE than a season, is it still worth using high picks on IR players? You think it is and that's fine, for me there is enough evidence to show it isn't working.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Again, the reason you draft an IR player is because you think he's solid value for next season. So you sacrifice his first season cause you're expecting a higher performance the next. But performance is only one factor, time is another.

Not worried about his performance, but we're losing even more time. While he was expected to shore up this shaky O-line, we have to keep waiting.

If we don't get 'solid value' and/OR it takes MORE than a season, is it still worth using high picks on IR players? You think it is and that's fine, for me there is enough evidence to show it isn't working.

This is essentially Brandon Thomas rookie season. Offensive line is one of the toughest positions to start as a rookie and it is common for rookie olineman to struggle their first year

 

[deep9er]

This is essentially Brandon Thomas rookie season. Offensive line is one of the toughest positions to start as a rookie and it is common for rookie olineman to struggle their first year

don't respond to only part of my comment, that's what Crimson always does. Because he agrees with me more than he admits, but he needs to pick on SOMETHING. Anyway, my comment is about drafting IR players, Thomas and Carradine were two of the examples.

i'm not focusing on Thomas or Carradine by themselves, i'm saying is it worth spending a 3rd rounder (Thomas) and wait MORE than a season? In Carradine's case, 2-1/2 seasons.

Is it worth spending a pick only to get a performance not even exceeding that round? Which IR has even matched his draft round, only Dial so far?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Again, the reason you draft an IR player is because you think he's solid value for next season. So you sacrifice his first season cause you're expecting a higher performance the next. But performance is only one factor, time is another.

Not worried about his performance, but we're losing even more time. While he was expected to shore up this shaky O-line, we have to keep waiting.

If we don't get 'solid value' and/OR it takes MORE than a season, is it still worth using high picks on IR players? You think it is and that's fine, for me there is enough evidence to show it isn't working.

It's unrealistic to expect instant impact out of these players in year two. You draft "IR players" for years three, four, and beyond, not for year two.

Again, we've seen one guy - Joe Looney - get three years in the system. He turned out about like you'd expect a fourth-round pick to turn out. We've seen one guy with an incredibly gruesome injury who likely fell three rounds as a result who couldn't come back. We've also seen Dial, a fifth round pick, assume a starting role. We've seen other guys seemingly outperform their draft position, and others perhaps trail their draft position slightly. I wouldn't consider the philosophy a bust just yet.

Of course, I have semi-realistic expectations for draft picks. And I'm talking to a guy who thinks the Niners' 2007 draft was subpar because Jay Moore and Joe Cohen didn't pan out. Not sure why I would expect logic to prevail....

 

[purguy12]

don't respond to only part of my comment, that's what Crimson always does. Because he agrees with me more than he admits, but he needs to pick on SOMETHING. Anyway, my comment is about drafting IR players, Thomas and Carradine were two of the examples.

i'm not focusing on Thomas or Carradine by themselves, i'm saying is it worth spending a 3rd rounder (Thomas) and wait MORE than a season? In Carradine's case, 2-1/2 seasons.

Is it worth spending a pick only to get a performance not even exceeding that round? Which IR has even matched his draft round, only Dial so far?

I understand what deep is saying. Thomas being a 3rd rd pick(if not injured a 1st/early 2nd rd pick) even though its some what rookie year he should be giving us more. he had a year to learn the playbook and a year into strength and condition program. So In a way he is 1 up on rookie. He needs to be the starter this year to consider this a good pick. Tank needs to show something major this year. I think last year at the end we saw what he can do. I want at least 6 sacks from him.

 

[purguy12]

It's unrealistic to expect instant impact out of these players in year two. You draft "IR players" for years three, four, and beyond, not for year two.

Again, we've seen one guy - Joe Looney - get three years in the system. He turned out about like you'd expect a fourth-round pick to turn out. We've seen one guy with an incredibly gruesome injury who likely fell three rounds as a result who couldn't come back. We've also seen Dial, a fifth round pick, assume a starting role. We've seen other guys seemingly outperform their draft position, and others perhaps trail their draft position slightly. I wouldn't consider the philosophy a bust just yet.

Of course, I have semi-realistic expectations for draft picks. And I'm talking to a guy who thinks the Niners' 2007 draft was subpar because Jay Moore and Joe Cohen didn't pan out. Not sure why I would expect logic to prevail....

I also agree with this. Look at these 2 young CB;s. Low picks and now 1 will be a starter and Akers looks really good. He was ranked this preseason so far by his grade the 10th best CB in preseason. I don't know what those metrics really are but they say he is good. those picks look like they will exceed their draft position as an injury pick.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I understand what deep is saying. Thomas being a 3rd rd pick(if not injured a 1st/early 2nd rd pick) even though its some what rookie year he should be giving us more. he had a year to learn the playbook and a year into strength and condition program. So In a way he is 1 up on rookie. He needs to be the starter this year to consider this a good pick. Tank needs to show something major this year. I think last year at the end we saw what he can do. I want at least 6 sacks from him.

See, there's that unrealistic expectations thing, again. There are a few problems with what you've said above. Thomas was a third-round pick in name only. He was taken with the 100th pick, which would be a 4th round pick but for comp picks (he was taken with a comp pick, the final pick of the 3rd). The 100th pick is pretty different from the 65th pick, even though both are technically third round picks. He did not learn the playbook last year because we have implemented a new blocking scheme. He has not had a year in the strength and conditioning program because he was recovering from an ACL tear. He is effectively a rookie this year.

Should he be starting? I think there's a strong argument he should. But that has more to do with the state of the RG position than realistic expectations for a guy taken 100th overall who didn't come close to playing as a rookie. As far as I'm concerned, if he moved into a starting job next year, he'd be right on track and a solid 100th pick.