Trade deadline rumor/wishlist thread - 2015

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

IMO, the Sac is already a top 10 offensive catcher in the league, and might be top 5. After Posey, Martin, and Vogt, who is clearly better? Maybe McCann, but after that there is Molina (average now) and a wasteland of below average hitters. If Sac got the number of starts Vogt or Martin got, he'd put up similar numbers.

He is really that good; we tend to forget that because he's behind a future HOF player and the rest of the league at that position is sooooo bad.

Holy hell overhyping alert

 

[tzill]

Holy hell overhyping alert

check the advanced metrics, instead of responding ignorantly.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

check the advanced metrics, instead of responding ignorantly.

You're right. It's my ignorance and not you overhyping a Giants player.

 

[tzill]

You're right. It's my ignorance and not you overhyping a Giants player.

You have now confirmed your ignorance. Thanks for that.

Fresh idea: DO SOME EFFING RESEARCH before you pop off. You think I didn't?

Jeebus...

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

You have now confirmed your ignorance. Thanks for that.

Fresh idea: DO SOME EFFING RESEARCH before you pop off. You think I didn't?

Jeebus...

I think you are taking his numbers over a limited sample size and assuming they will project out over an entire season to make him top-five at his position.

Catchers with 200-plus AB's since 2014
13th in wOBA
45th in wRC
18th in wRAA
10th in wRC+
11th in ISO

Going off RC/27 (this year), he is behind Posey, Grandal, d'artaud, Vogt, Cervelli, Hundley, Martin, Phegley, McCann
If going off FanGraphs offensive value, 13th


He is 10th in OPS+ combined between 2014 and 2015.


He could maybe one day become a top-five offensive catcher. But saying he is there now seems to be inflating his present production, assuming it sticks over entire season when he is 25 with just 200 career AB's in his big-league career seems a bit much

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

I have no issue with you tzill, I did overreact to the original statement. Just find calling Susac to[-five offensive catcher to be premature

 

[calsnowskier]

If there were a draft today for catchers only, taking EVERYTHING into account (contract, age, injury status, projection, etc), where do you think Susac would be taken?

Posey would CLEARLY be taken #1, unless whatever team was going to be overly concerned with their salary number moving forward. Posey is the best catcher in the game by a fairly large margin.

Susac, though, I think would be a top 10 pick. He is young, cheap and has shown the ability to learn and improve. His minor league numbers, while not Belt-like, were always closer to SOLID than they were to mediocre.

Is he a top 5 TODAY? Probably not. he has not had the opportunity to catch every day in the majors to prove that. Is he considered to be at least close to that class? Almost certainly..

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

If there were a draft today for catchers only, taking EVERYTHING into account (contract, age, injury status, projection, etc), where do you think Susac would be taken?

Posey would CLEARLY be taken #1, unless whatever team was going to be overly concerned with their salary number moving forward. Posey is the best catcher in the game by a fairly large margin.

Susac, though, I think would be a top 10 pick. He is young, cheap and has shown the ability to learn and improve. His minor league numbers, while not Belt-like, were always closer to SOLID than they were to mediocre.

Is he a top 5 TODAY? Probably not. he has not had the opportunity to catch every day in the majors to prove that. Is he considered to be at least close to that class? Almost certainly..

I could absolutely understand top-10 argument.

Names thrown around (long-term);
Blake Swihart
Kyle Schwarber
Sal Perez
Posey
Grandal
Alfaro (TEX C spec)
Justin O'Conner
Mesoraco (missed this season with hip impairment, had surgery, back in '16 Spring Training)

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Alex Pavlovic
@AlexPavlovic
Asking price on Hamels has been high. Heard Phillies at some point talked about four-player package: Susac, Beede plus two minor leaguers.

 

[msgkings322]

Porcello is dogshit. Nice outing today.

He wouldn't be worth a roster spot let alone that contract.

 

[tzill]

I think you are taking his numbers over a limited sample size and assuming they will project out over an entire season to make him top-five at his position.

Catchers with 200-plus AB's since 2014
13th in wOBA
45th in wRC
18th in wRAA
10th in wRC+
11th in ISO

Going off RC/27 (this year), he is behind Posey, Grandal, d'artaud, Vogt, Cervelli, Hundley, Martin, Phegley, McCann
If going off FanGraphs offensive value, 13th


He is 10th in OPS+ combined between 2014 and 2015.


He could maybe one day become a top-five offensive catcher. But saying he is there now seems to be inflating his present production, assuming it sticks over entire season when he is 25 with just 200 career AB's in his big-league career seems a bit much

OK. You did some research and NOW we can have a convo. I said he's already top 10, and ARGUABLY top 5. The number that matters for me is WC+, where he's 10th. He's also, as you point out, top 10 in OPS+ and 11th in ISO. A few of the guys with better WC+ over the last two years are clearly on the decline (McKenrey, Jaso) and a couple don't have the upside Sac has (Grendal, Mesoraco, Cervelli). So we are left with Buster, Vogt, and Martin who are clearly better...and that's about it. So, arguably, top five already.

Again, arguably, and your mileage may vary. I think Cal put it the best: if there were to be a draft of catchers today, what would the draft order go like?

I'd feel pretty confident Sac would go top five.

And, sorry I jumped on you.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal


#Braves lefty Alex Wood would go to #Dodgers if three-team deal with #Marlins is completed, sources tell me and @jonmorosi.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

OK. You did some research and NOW we can have a convo. I said he's already top 10, and ARGUABLY top 5. The number that matters for me is WC+, where he's 10th. He's also, as you point out, top 10 in OPS+ and 11th in ISO. A few of the guys with better WC+ over the last two years are clearly on the decline (McKenrey, Jaso) and a couple don't have the upside Sac has (Grendal, Mesoraco, Cervelli). So we are left with Buster, Vogt, and Martin who are clearly better...and that's about it. So, arguably, top five already.

Again, arguably, and your mileage may vary. I think Cal put it the best: if there were to be a draft of catchers today, what would the draft order go like?

I'd feel pretty confident Sac would go top five.

And, sorry I jumped on you.

I jumped too much at the top-five thing. Top-10 I could easily see/agree with

 

[calsnowskier]

So we are all pretty much in agreement that our BACK UP catcher is one of the 10 best catchers in the world right now.

Do I have this right?

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Mark Bowman
@mlbbowman
If the Braves deal w/ the Marlins and Dodgers is completed, Jose Peraza, Jim Johnson and Alex Wood could all be included.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

What is Atlanta sending to get one of Braves top specs, a good, young lefty and a set up man?


Olivera
Jim Bowden @JimBowden_ESPN


Olivera going to Braves

 

[Hangman]

All i know is big moves are being made by the teams the Giants have to get through to win back to back world series. And we are standing there with our dick in our hands doing jack shit.

 

[Hangman]

Mets just got Gomes from the brewers

 

[msgkings322]

All i know is big moves are being made by the teams the Giants have to get through to win back to back world series. And we are standing there with our dick in our hands doing jack shit.

Before we address this, please go back and read this thread and so many others on this board about the Giants Way, the long term situation, the state of the market, the assets we need, the assets we have.

If you still have this idiotic opinion that's on you.

 

[msgkings322]

Mets just got Gomes from the brewers

Did you see who the Mets dealt for him? Does that ring a bell? Does that affect your feeling about your GMing skills vs the Giants' front office?