Toronto gets hockey team - as does Seattle, Quebec, Las Vegas

[Canuck eh?]

You just know if he were taken in an expansion draft he would turn into a 40 goal scorer.

Yep.

 

[Canuck eh?]

It's win-win, since it adds another 23 player jobs plus minors etc. Everybody gets rich while the fans watch their sport become more diluted.

You should be happy the rest of the league will have to do what your management does willingly.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

NHL denies expansion report, including a second team in Toronto | Toronto Star

 

[dash]

"Expansion", said Daly, "is the hill we will die on"

 

[mattola]

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Daly could also not confirm or deny the existence of a first team in toronto

 

[Canuck eh?]

Daly could also not confirm or deny the existence of a first team in toronto

To be fair here that is very difficult to do.

 

[forty_three]

Beats me, but if someone started a new thread every time something occured in the NHL, or about the NHL, we would be knocking threads off the 1st page before they had a chance to breathe. Obviously moreso in the actual Season of course.

I guess it all boils down to whether or not the person posting it thinks it deserves its own thread?

Dash is just going to merge this into the other one anyways.

Like on deadline day when the Isles trade a 4th line plug for a 7th round pick?


Expansion, especially the 4 etam variety, is extreme folly. This better be wrong.

An expansion draft stocking four teams will kill the organizations that are stockpiling talent through draft and development. Edmonton not included.

 

[mattola]

Like on deadline day when the Isles trade a 4th line plug for a 7th round pick?


Expansion, especially the 4 etam variety, is extreme folly. This better be wrong.

An expansion draft stocking four teams will kill the organizations that are stockpiling talent through draft and development. Edmonton not included.

completely agree. especially about Edmonton, they dont need to lose their young talent to kill themselves.

 

[mattola]

one thing comes to mind as well is Phoenix and Florida, I dont believe those teams will ever work where they are and has the bigger potential to move than 4 brand new teams. Phoenix to Seattle, Florida to Quebec city and then add Seattle (and if Vegas if they are really going to do it to balance the conferences at 16 teams a side). doesnt matter if we hate having Vegas in the league if the league thinks it will work they wont care what they damage to try

 

[Nasty_Magician]

I understand giving time to develop a fan base but how long have the Panthers been a franchise? Are there indications that it could work (rise in youth hockey numbers?), any reason to not bail on that situation at the first opportunity?

 

[dash]

 

[forty_three]

one thing comes to mind as well is Phoenix and Florida, I dont believe those teams will ever work where they are and has the bigger potential to move than 4 brand new teams. Phoenix to Seattle, Florida to Quebec city and then add Seattle (and if Vegas if they are really going to do it to balance the conferences at 16 teams a side). doesnt matter if we hate having Vegas in the league if the league thinks it will work they wont care what they damage to try

You said Seattle twice. I'd like to see the Yotes move to Seattle and expand to Milwaukee. Pans can go to Quebec. Still leaves an imbalance by one. If the Pans go to KC, that balances, but Quebec should get one.

I understand giving time to develop a fan base but how long have the Panthers been a franchise? Are there indications that it could work (rise in youth hockey numbers?), any reason to not bail on that situation at the first opportunity?

The Florida numbers overall have been stagnant for a good five years (no growth) and the majority of those numbers are in Tampa. Miami only has like 5 sheets of ice in a city and suburbs with 5.5m people.

Florida has 19.5m people total. 11,000 USA hockey registered players. 6,000 are over 18. 4525 U18 players in Florida. And USA hockey does not publish by city, but it's believed that 75% are Tampa and Orlando.

To compare, Ohio has 11.1m people, and has 15,000 USA hockey registered players. They have roughly the same number of Under 10 age players as Florida has total U18. (and the 01 birth year AAA team won Quebec this year - the first group of kids that have always had the Jackets around)

Western PA has 13,000 players total and more under 8 than Florida U18. Michigan has 51,000 players and more in the 9-10 age than Florida U18 (and twice as many adult players as Florida has total players - those guys grew up on hockey and still play). Massachusetts has 46,000 and more in U6 than Florida has U18. SIX YEAR OLDS

The south Florida experiment has failed.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

You said Seattle twice. I'd like to see the Yotes move to Seattle and expand to Milwaukee. Pans can go to Quebec. Still leaves an imbalance by one. If the Pans go to KC, that balances, but Quebec should get one.

that makes no sense financially from an ownership/league perspective ... move teams in failing markets to markets where there are bonafide actual living people who want to pay to become owners in your league

and expand to Milwaukee ... where no one has stepped up (publically) and said they would be willing to ante up a quarter of a bill to get an expansion team

 

[forty_three]

that makes no sense financially from an ownership/league perspective ... move teams in failing markets to markets where there are bonafide actual living people who want to pay to become owners in your league

and expand to Milwaukee ... where no one has stepped up (publically) and said they would be willing to ante up a quarter of a bill to get an expansion team

Okay, move an existing franchise to Milwaukee and expand to Seattle. I think those are the two most logical next expansion targets for overall success probability. How teams get there doesn't matter.

Or tell someone who wants to pay for an expansion team in another market that if they want to buy in, they buy into Milwaukee and commit to 10 years. A few years back Jim Balsillie would have jumped at the chance to own a team anywhere.

 

[RP-29]

There was a WCHL team in Reno in '95. Its existence was stretched to four years before folding.

Vegas has had an ECHL team since 2003, but the team's sustainability is very much in question... If you go to the Las Vegas Wranglers web site, the first major headline is "Wranglers to return to the ice for the 15-16 season".

Jason Zucker is the only player in NHL history that was born in the entire state of Nevada.

---

In contrast, Wisconsin has produced elite world-class players such as Ryan Suter, Joe Pavelski and Phil Kessel. There's absolutely no question the Green Bay Gamblers are here to stay. In fact, a brand new USHL team opens its doors this year in Madison. That's in addition to the very healthy Milwaukee Admirals (AHL) and the elite Wisconsin Badgers hockey program.


PUT A TEAM WHERE PEOPLE LOVE HOCKEY!!!

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Okay, move an existing franchise to Milwaukee and expand to Seattle. I think those are the two most logical next expansion targets for overall success probability. How teams get there doesn't matter.

Or tell someone who wants to pay for an expansion team in another market that if they want to buy in, they buy into Milwaukee and commit to 10 years. A few years back Jim Balsillie would have jumped at the chance to own a team anywhere.

well as i stated ... when you move a team to city for ZERO or you can create one there and get $250 million instead ... id say it does matter

Id say the best way to go about getting teams from a business standpoint is (proviso: cdn dollar stays arounf 90 to 95 cents)

Toronto: expand
Quebec City: expand
Seattle: move
Milwaukee or KC: move


what prospective owner (in any sport?) today would be ok with paying 250 mill to establish a new team in a market not of their choice

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

well as i stated ... when you move a team to city for ZERO or you can create one there and get $250 million instead ... id say it does matter

Id say the best way to go about getting teams from a business standpoint is (proviso: cdn dollar stays arounf 90 to 95 cents)

Toronto: expand
Quebec City: expand
Seattle: move
Milwaukee or KC: move


what prospective owner (in any sport?) today would be ok with paying 250 mill to establish a new team in a market not of their choice

For the record, the NHL does charge a "relocation fee" when franchises move cities. Winnipeg paid $60 million when they moved from Atlanta, and I would think Toronto's could be as high as half a billion dollars when including any potential payoff to MLSE (would be lower if the team were in Hamilton, where it should be anyway).

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Okay, move an existing franchise to Milwaukee and expand to Seattle. I think those are the two most logical next expansion targets for overall success probability. How teams get there doesn't matter.

Or tell someone who wants to pay for an expansion team in another market that if they want to buy in, they buy into Milwaukee and commit to 10 years. A few years back Jim Balsillie would have jumped at the chance to own a team anywhere.

And today, that would be his only source of revenue

 

[jstewismybastardson]

For the record, the NHL does charge a "relocation fee" when franchises move cities. Winnipeg paid $60 million when they moved from Atlanta, and I would think Toronto's could be as high as half a billion dollars when including any potential payoff to MLSE (would be lower if the team were in Hamilton, where it should be anyway).

a straight out expansion fee for a new Toronto franchise would probably be 1 bill