Top 5 All-Time According to Position

[hockey878]

Athletically, maybe. Physically, no way. Only a handful of players from this era could have gone up against the bigs of the 80s and 90s.

Shaq and Hakeem would be putting up 40/20 numbers all night long.

And almost none of the bigs from the 80's and 90's could guard bigs from today... there are stylistic differences in the way the game is played.

 

[Clayton]

So who would guard Hakeem? Shaq? Ewing? David Robinson? Karl Malone? Charles Barkley?

And that's just the 90s

There are a number of people who could guard Karl Malone and Charles Barkley. Hakeem and Shaq, Ill give you but people overrate older athletes in all sports.

Go watch a full game from a different era. I showed GP and Jordan playing just to show how badly both teams were playing defense.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Magic
MJ
LeBron
Malone
Russell

 

[Crotchrocker]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanemansj13
Easier offensively, harder defensively

I am sorry I didn't clarify. I felt it was implied. But yes, what you said.

I do not concur. You can employ a zone defense now. Its nothing like it was in the 80's. It is far easier to cover up for a weak defender than it ever was. Removing the hand check just makes it easier to score. So now, more than ever, it is easier to both score and defend. Yet and still, teams are not coming CLOSE to putting up the exciting brand of basketball seen during the Magic/Bird era. David Stern's biggest legacy is turning the NBA from a team-oriented game that was fundamentally sound into a league full of hotdoggers that sell jerseys. Give me the 80's.

 

[majoyenrac]

I can't see Chris Paul as a top 5 all-time point guard yet. He hasn't been in the league long enough. Maybe he will be by the time he retires, but not right now.

I gave a lot of thought about Ray-Ray (arguably the best pure shooter in history), but Jerry West is the logo for a reason.

I see Durant at small forward much like I see Chris Paul. He may be there by the time he retires, but not yet.

I gave a lot of thought to Dirk and KG at power forward and actually don't have much issue with either of them replacing Pettit, but I don't think either belongs on the list ahead of Kevin McHale.

Agree that Shaq could/should have been #1, but as you point out, he didn't stay in shape. That laziness is largely why I have him at #5 instead of top 3. It's scary to think of what he could have done if he took the game as seriously as guys like MJ or Kobe.

I personally like Nash a whole lot more (I'm not the biggest Paul fan in reality, but I won't argue he's not great), but when I made my list, I thought between Nash and Paul who would I pick, and frankly while Nash won 2 MVP's and was great in Phx and at the end of his Dallas run, if I had a gun to my head I'd probably take Paul's best to date over Nash....and Paul's had 8+ years of exceptional ball already (25.6 PER, but above that, since that stat is overrated) he's got a decent 2 way game (he's not quite as good a defender as his steals would indicate, but that's not because he doesn't try hard or position well--it's because he's small). Nash was never a good defender, he did try a bit, but he was never as dedicated at that end as Paul, and Nash's best seasons weren't even as good as Paul's career average in PER....considering Nash is an offensive player, PER is geared for him, and Paul trumped him despite being more aggresive on both ends..... Chris Paul is an all time great.....

....he's still not my favorite player....whereas Nash is one of my favorite players.

I kind of hope John Wall can improve that shot, as he has the tools to really be one of the great ones--on both ends with his athleticism, height, speed, passing........and I also really hope Derrick Rose can come back as folks forget he was amazing in his best days....(and DRose's defense was dramatically improved before that injury to where he was not just avergae, he was coming into his own with the mix of strength and athleticism (and Noah & Thibs & early Hinrich's teachings)....

 

[Shanemansj13]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanemansj13
Easier offensively, harder defensively

I am sorry I didn't clarify. I felt it was implied. But yes, what you said.

I do not concur. You can employ a zone defense now. Its nothing like it was in the 80's. It is far easier to cover up for a weak defender than it ever was. Removing the hand check just makes it easier to score. So now, more than ever, it is easier to both score and defend. Yet and still, teams are not coming CLOSE to putting up the exciting brand of basketball seen during the Magic/Bird era. David Stern's biggest legacy is turning the NBA from a team-oriented game that was fundamentally sound into a league full of hotdoggers that sell jerseys. Give me the 80's.

I guess overall.

 

[Clayton]

I do not concur. You can employ a zone defense now. Its nothing like it was in the 80's. It is far easier to cover up for a weak defender than it ever was. Removing the hand check just makes it easier to score. So now, more than ever, it is easier to both score and defend. Yet and still, teams are not coming CLOSE to putting up the exciting brand of basketball seen during the Magic/Bird era. David Stern's biggest legacy is turning the NBA from a team-oriented game that was fundamentally sound into a league full of hotdoggers that sell jerseys. Give me the 80's.

There is a lot less iso and there are more plays being run in today's game. Every great player adds a new wrinkle to the game. Every coach copies what has worked in the past. Teams are hiring advanced stats guys to pursue undervalued players and ditch overvalued ones. Every player copies the players that came before them. The league is more competitive than ever.

Teams that play iso and try to sell jerseys aren't winning in today's NBA. Just ask Carmelo Anthony.

Today's game is more complex than the game from the 80s. Look at how much Steve Nash and the Celtics defense from the Big 3 era have totally changed today's game.

 

[douggie]

Without Willis Reed, Earl the Pearl Monroe, Pistol Pete Maravich, and Doctor J there cannot be a serious discussion about the greatest in the NBA. And I would say those guys would still be great players if they played today. But you have to be born before 1970 to have seen them.

 

[majoyenrac]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanemansj13
Easier offensively, harder defensively

I am sorry I didn't clarify. I felt it was implied. But yes, what you said.

I do not concur. You can employ a zone defense now. Its nothing like it was in the 80's. It is far easier to cover up for a weak defender than it ever was. Removing the hand check just makes it easier to score. So now, more than ever, it is easier to both score and defend. Yet and still, teams are not coming CLOSE to putting up the exciting brand of basketball seen during the Magic/Bird era. David Stern's biggest legacy is turning the NBA from a team-oriented game that was fundamentally sound into a league full of hotdoggers that sell jerseys. Give me the 80's.

In the 80s, you could just have 2 guys hand check guys into oblivion, so a terrible but strong defender could really be effective by just bodying up a smaller, weaker or more athletic player than he was.

I mean Carlos Boozer's a friggin' tank, and I bet in the 80s his D lapses due to terrible footwork and movement would be covered up by the fact he could just lean on guys left and right and use his strength to keep them at bay (he would still fall victim to lack of rotations).

Sure the handcheck rule has made it easier for the guards to drive the lanes, but you also have to think we have more and more guys employed in the league as D experts, we have guys like Lebron who in the 80's may have been just a back to the basket PF, but is a PT-Forward with a PF size and strength. You've got bigs like Nowitzki, Gasol's, etc who can shoot from the outside but can burn you by driving; you've got a C who can be your facilitator and is an exceptional passer (Noah), you've got a bit of everything. The C position isn't as historically down as it's rep, it's just the skills in the C position have changed....the back to the basket guy is not as prevalent, but the bigs today can sometimes guard 1-5's at the perimeter, make a pass, handle the ball a bit, shoot from 10-15 ft, rebound, etc...it's just different.

I would think that given all the isolated weight training, and kind of just hte way it goes in sports, that it would be harder to play in today's NBA with all the scouting, specialists, and work than it was in 1990/1985....

But at the same time those great one's (MJ, etc) would be great in any era....

Would Wilt have scored 100 pts today? Heck no, but he'd still be a dominant force....I think for many purposes Kobe really owns that single game scoring record in my book considering the era we live in today and the level of talent from bottom to top.....

There's a ton of fundamentals in today's game....the Euro player and the move of these 4's & 3's into more of a facilitator ability is what's changed....I wouldn't say the fundamentals have gone down, I just think they're changing, and the bigs that are coming up aren't as big compared to the 4's/3's as they were, so that's changed....

 

[gordontrue]

In the 80s, you could just have 2 guys hand check guys into oblivion, so a terrible but strong defender could really be effective by just bodying up a smaller, weaker or more athletic player than he was.

I mean Carlos Boozer's a friggin' tank, and I bet in the 80s his D lapses due to terrible footwork and movement would be covered up by the fact he could just lean on guys left and right and use his strength to keep them at bay (he would still fall victim to lack of rotations).

Sure the handcheck rule has made it easier for the guards to drive the lanes, but you also have to think we have more and more guys employed in the league as D experts, we have guys like Lebron who in the 80's may have been just a back to the basket PF, but is a PT-Forward with a PF size and strength. You've got bigs like Nowitzki, Gasol's, etc who can shoot from the outside but can burn you by driving; you've got a C who can be your facilitator and is an exceptional passer (Noah), you've got a bit of everything. The C position isn't as historically down as it's rep, it's just the skills in the C position have changed....the back to the basket guy is not as prevalent, but the bigs today can sometimes guard 1-5's at the perimeter, make a pass, handle the ball a bit, shoot from 10-15 ft, rebound, etc...it's just different.

I would think that given all the isolated weight training, and kind of just hte way it goes in sports, that it would be harder to play in today's NBA with all the scouting, specialists, and work than it was in 1990/1985....

But at the same time those great one's (MJ, etc) would be great in any era....

Would Wilt have scored 100 pts today? Heck no, but he'd still be a dominant force....I think for many purposes Kobe really owns that single game scoring record in my book considering the era we live in today and the level of talent from bottom to top.....

There's a ton of fundamentals in today's game....the Euro player and the move of these 4's & 3's into more of a facilitator ability is what's changed....I wouldn't say the fundamentals have gone down, I just think they're changing, and the bigs that are coming up aren't as big compared to the 4's/3's as they were, so that's changed....

 

[HizzleRocker]

Without Willis Reed, Earl the Pearl Monroe, Pistol Pete Maravich, and Doctor J there cannot be a serious discussion about the greatest in the NBA. And I would say those guys would still be great players if they played today. But you have to be born before 1970 to have seen them.

I agree. But I did leave out Willis. I swear that was a tough one though. Too many lists only consider players from the 80's past. I promise basketball existed before then - and many of those guys made the game what it is today.

 

[Steelboy84]

There is a lot of debate on these boards over who is the GOAT and where players should be ranked on the list of all time greats. I think a better/more accurate version is the top players of all time per position.

Here's mine:

Center:

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Olajuwon
5. Shaq

Point Guard:

1. Magic
2. Big O
3. Stockton
4. Nash
5. Thomas

Shooting Guard:

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Iceman Gervin
5. D-Wade

Small Forward:

1. Bird
2. Lebron
3. Elgin
4. Dr. J
5. Pippen

Power Forward:

1. Malone
2. Duncan
3. McHale
4. Barkley
5. Pettit

There is no way in hell I can put Olajuwon over Shaq. We're talking about the most dominant C of his generation and yes, that includes Hakeem, Ewing, and David Robinson. I'd put Stockton number 2 for PGs, the rest of the list looks good.

 

[ChiTownCliff]

There is a lot of debate on these boards over who is the GOAT and where players should be ranked on the list of all time greats. I think a better/more accurate version is the top players of all time per position.

Here's mine:

Center:

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Olajuwon
5. Shaq

Point Guard:

1. Magic
2. Big O
3. Stockton
4. Nash
5. Thomas

Shooting Guard:

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Iceman Gervin
5. D-Wade

Small Forward:

1. Bird
2. Lebron
3. Elgin
4. Dr. J
5. Pippen

Power Forward:

1. Malone
2. Duncan
3. McHale
4. Barkley
5. Pettit

Solid list. Here is mine:

PG
1. Magic
2. Big O
3. Stockton
4. Thomas
5. The Glove

SG
1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Wade
5. Iceman

SF
1. Lebron
2. Bird
3. Baylor
4. Dr. J
5. Pippen

PF
1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. Barkley
4. Dirk
5. Rodman

C

1. Russell
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. The Dream
5. Shaq

 

[trojanfan12]

There is no way in hell I can put Olajuwon over Shaq. We're talking about the most dominant C of his generation and yes, that includes Hakeem, Ewing, and David Robinson. I'd put Stockton number 2 for PGs, the rest of the list looks good.

I put Olajuwon over Shaq because of Shaq's laziness. As dominant as Shaq was, it wasn't for as long as it could have been because he wouldn't do what he needed to do to stay in shape and it shaved 3-5 years (and maybe a couple of championships) off of his career.

Imagine how dominant he could have been if he had worked like MJ or Kobe.

Besides, Olajuwon could shoot free throws.

 

[Logicallylethal]

I put Olajuwon over Shaq because of Shaq's laziness. As dominant as Shaq was, it wasn't for as long as it could have been because he wouldn't do what he needed to do to stay in shape and it shaved 3-5 years (and maybe a couple of championships) off of his career.

Imagine how dominant he could have been if he had worked like MJ or Kobe.

Besides, Olajuwon could shoot free throws.

Hakeem was also a much better defensive player as well (nearly averaged 5 blocks a game one year in his prime). Arguments can be made for both players though so I don't fault anyone for putting Shaq in front of dream or dream in front of shaq

 

[Logicallylethal]

LeBron could guard Magic, im sure i will get flamed for that, but he could easily. KG and Duncan could do as good as well as anyone on Hakeem and David Robinson. Pippen and Jordan are probably the greatest defensive wing combo in history, but lets not pretend they shut everyone down every single night, prime dwade and lebron defensively are also a pretty nasty wing defender combination.

hibbert and dwight could maybe have a shot at shaq, but lets face it prime shaq was being stopped by NO ONE in any era.

fact of that matter is it is IMPOSSIBLE to compare ALL TIME greats to guys who haven't even finished their careers yet.

and if you think pippen or MJ is gonna shut durant and lebron down on a consistent basis you are kidding yourself. Maybe they would have more success than others, but "shut them down" nope. not happening.

players are just as good or better today than they were 20 years ago. thinking otherwise is just crazy

Oh I'm not saying any of those defenders would shut down the elite guys in today's game. I'm just saying I "like their chances" better than the big men we have guarding the hall of fame caliber big men in the old school days.

A lot of people are bringing up the hand check rule as if it totally negates the old school players. If anything playing with the new hand check rule multiplies Jordan's offensive production. He would get even more foul calls than he did back when he played

Honestly it's all a matter of preference. The new school is more dynamic hybrid players. Old school is a lot stronger up front and traditional at every position.

My personal take on it is if they played in a 7 game series...the old school's advantages would ultimately wear down the new school. Their dominance in the paint in my opinion trumps the athletic abilities of the new school