POLL Top 10 poll: #29 player ever

[msgkings322]

Exactly

That's just it though can't we already put him on the level with Mike Trout? And a lot of guys are already pitching Trout for the list. Both 3 MVPs, a 50/50 season, a top of the line STARTING PITCHER (this is just not considered enough, because he took the year off so we don't have that in our minds)

I just see the person himself and know that he is for sure one of the 30 best players to suit up. He just is even if he got hit by a bus tomorrow. Some guys are just unicorns.

 

[msgkings322]

For what it’s worth (not much at all), I asked Meta AI who the #29 player in MLB history is, and it responded with George Brett.

Some ask the AI where Rickey is on the list

 

[msgkings322]

Strong disagree since he’s already won 3 MVPs. How many others have won 3, or more?

Bonds-7
Trout-3
Ohtani-3
ARod-3
Pujols-3
Schmidt-3
Mantle-3
Berra-3
Campanella-3
Musial-3
DiMaggio-3
Foxx-3

That’s it. That’s the whole list. Only Ohtani can climb this list, though.

Interesting which of these that have not made our list yet:

ARod (might get there now), Berra, Campanella, Trout, and Ohtani

 

[LHG]

Sure. And look at his numbers his last 5 years. Whoever said he was declining, I don’t know about that. I would guess he would have ended akin to the afore mentioned Tony Gwynn or George Brett. But who knows. Maybe we could have called him the greatest defensive outfielder of all time?

I said that Clemente was declining. He hit .357/.400/.554 in 1967 and .312/.356/.479 in 1972. I should change it to a decline his last 3 years. He saw a dip in production in 1968 but came back with two really good years in 1969 and 1970. It was in 1971 and 1972 when he started to hit a bit less like his dominant self. Maybe he could have been good a couple more years, we won't really know, but his age suggested that a decline could have been imminent and possibly rapid.

 

[msgkings322]

ChatGPT says Tony Gwynn.
Perplexity says Johnny Bench.

I’m with Perplexity.

By the way thanks for this because @calsnowskier asked ChatGPT the same question and got a different answer (Brett)

I guess the LLM is not going to be consistent with open ended qualitative and obscure questions (who is the 29th best baseball player? Who is the 33rd best rock drummer? etc)

 

[msgkings322]

ARod leads with 12...Bench + Berra = 11 (just sayin')

 

[LHG]

That's just it though can't we already put him on the level with Mike Trout? And a lot of guys are already pitching Trout for the list. Both 3 MVPs, a 50/50 season, a top of the line STARTING PITCHER (this is just not considered enough, because he took the year off so we don't have that in our minds)

I just see the person himself and know that he is for sure one of the 30 best players to suit up. He just is even if he got hit by a bus tomorrow. Some guys are just unicorns.

This feels like the Koufax argument all over again. The "but he was dominant for a few years and those were really dominant seasons, possibly the most dominant seasons ever! argument. Ohtani is good when he pitches but he only has 3 seasons in the big leagues where he has thrown more than a 100 innings. Only one of those got Cy Young consideration. Only 2 of his 3 MVP seasons were during his pitching seasons. The 3rd was for a very dominant DH season.
Yeah, he is a special player but so was Pat Venditte. Nobody is suggesting he should be ranked anywhere near the top 500. In my opinion, Ohtani's body of work doesn't put him this high.

 

[msgkings322]

This feels like the Koufax argument all over again. The "but he was dominant for a few years and those were really dominant seasons, possibly the most dominant seasons ever! argument. Ohtani is good when he pitches but he only has 3 seasons in the big leagues where he has thrown more than a 100 innings. Only one of those got Cy Young consideration. Only 2 of his 3 MVP seasons were during his pitching seasons. The 3rd was for a very dominant DH season.
Yeah, he is a special player but so was Pat Venditte. Nobody is suggesting he should be ranked anywhere near the top 500. In my opinion, Ohtani's body of work doesn't put him this high.

This is simply emotion...I see what I see. I've seen a lot of people play this game...this guy is one of the best. Just my personal fan's opinion

He's already got what a lot of players never did so this isn't pure emotion either

Pat Venditte? Bro your'e better than that LOL

(and yeah Koufax has some unicorn juice (so do DiMaggio and Henderson) so )

 

[msgkings322]

Ohtani reminds me of my take on Pat Mahomes...everyone says he needs a full career before we rank him, but can't one accept they are seeing the greatness now as it's happening? If you were watching Willie Mays in like 1962 or Ted Williams in 1947 couldn't you already say 'that dude is one of the best who ever played'?

Ohtani got 3 MVPs already...Mays and Teddy Ballgame had 2

 

[calsnowskier]

By the way thanks for this because @calsnowskier asked ChatGPT the same question and got a different answer (Brett)

I guess the LLM is not going to be consistent with open ended qualitative and obscure questions (who is the 29th best baseball player? Who is the 33rd best rock drummer? etc)

I asked Meta. I just got glasses today (gift from work) and was playing around. Is Meta powered by chatGPT?

 

[msgkings322]

I asked Meta. I just got glasses today (gift from work) and was playing around. Is Meta powered by chatGPT?

Not sure, maybe I misread it thought you asked ChatGPT too LOL...I think Meta has their own AI though

The edibles have kicked in

 

[calsnowskier]

This is simply emotion...I see what I see. I've seen a lot of people play this game...this guy is one of the best. Just my personal fan's opinion

He's already got what a lot of players never did so this isn't pure emotion either

Pat Venditte? Bro your'e better than that LOL

(and yeah Koufax has some unicorn juice (so do DiMaggio and Henderson) so )

Oscar Tavares was a beast. As was Jose Fernandez. Neither of them belong in this discussion.

I EXPECT Ohtani to be a top 5 or top 10 player WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE.

But all has NOT been said or done yet. His resume isn’t at this level yet. Trout’s resume is ALMOST ready for this neighborhood, but imho, there are still a number of players ahead of him.

 

[calsnowskier]

Ohtani reminds me of my take on Pat Mahomes...everyone says he needs a full career before we rank him, but can't one accept they are seeing the greatness now as it's happening? If you were watching Willie Mays in like 1962 or Ted Williams in 1947 couldn't you already say 'that dude is one of the best who ever played'?

Ohtani got 3 MVPs already...Mays and Teddy Ballgame had 2

And who isn’t saying that? Acknowledging that you are watching a house getting built does not mean you back the U-Haul up the driveway tomorrow morning.

 

[msgkings322]

And who isn’t saying that? Acknowledging that you are watching a house getting built does not mean you back the U-Haul up the driveway tomorrow morning.

Yeah I get it but that’s not some gotcha analogy. You got a house right in front of you. He’s Ted Williams in 1947. All I’m saying is I see what I see. Call it a bet if you must.

 

[chappee11]

I'm the OG Ohtani stan, voted for him every round but stopped recently because the point was made and he just wasn't going to get there. Just the eye test I see it, the dual threat of course also, and I have no doubt he will be a top 30 player and in some ways already is (your MVP argument is a good one)

I’m not sure you beat me into this conversation on Ohtani. I started hyping him in the top 10 somewhere. He’s a once in 100 years kind of player, and the Babe Ruth of our era.

Not only does he have the 3 MVPs, but he also has a 2nd place MVP finish AND a 4th place Cy Young finish? Add to that a 50/50 season that we will most likely never see again AND the fact that he has 9 more years on that contract? Yeah, he deserves more love on here. But it’s hard to reason with the types that just want to vote for Old Hoss Radbourn instead.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yeah I get it but that’s not some gotcha analogy. You got a house right in front of you. He’s Ted Williams in 1947. All I’m saying is I see what I see. Call it a bet if you must.

And few (any?) disagree with that stance. I certainly don’t.

But we are talking about resumes, not potentials. Again, Tavares and Fernandez aren’t ever going to be included in any of these projects in the future. But they both certainly passed every eye test.

 

[broncosmitty]

Sure. And look at his numbers his last 5 years. Whoever said he was declining, I don’t know about that. I would guess he would have ended akin to the afore mentioned Tony Gwynn or George Brett. But who knows. Maybe we could have called him the greatest defensive outfielder of all time?

One maybe two years. Which would’ve been the worst years of his career.

People might still incorrectly think he’s better than Al Kaline. Who should get votes before RC, since his numbers are better.

 

[chappee11]

That's just it though can't we already put him on the level with Mike Trout? And a lot of guys are already pitching Trout for the list. Both 3 MVPs, a 50/50 season, a top of the line STARTING PITCHER (this is just not considered enough, because he took the year off so we don't have that in our minds)

I just see the person himself and know that he is for sure one of the 30 best players to suit up. He just is even if he got hit by a bus tomorrow. Some guys are just unicorns.

For the record: I still gave this post a like even though I’ve begged you to stop using the term “unicorn”.

 

[msgkings322]

And few (any?) disagree with that stance. I certainly don’t.

But we are talking about resumes, not potentials. Again, Tavares and Fernandez aren’t ever going to be included in any of these projects in the future. But they both certainly passed every eye test.

You guys keep isolating one variable like Pat Venditte (2 way player!) or Oscar Tavares (eye test!). But he's ALL OF IT. He's those dudes if they were front line pitchers AND at the same time a 3 time MVP with 50/50 season.

It's ridiculous sophistry. I know the game pretty well on a fan level. He's the real deal.

 

[msgkings322]

For the record: I still gave this post a like even though I’ve begged you to stop using the term “unicorn”.