POLL Top 10 poll: #17 player ever

[DHoey]

Pujols was a R AND RBI beast. Ichiro was ONLY a R beast (and not that beastish, eod). Ichiro Led the league in steals once, and that year, he only had 56 steals. We are not talking Rickey or Vince levels steals.

Ichiro’s career high in OPS+ was 130. This alone should be EOT.

Granted, he was superior D to Pujols, but Pujols was miles and miles and miles and miles and… ahead of Ichiro with the bat that it doesn’t even begin to cover the gap. And it isn’t like Pujols was a horrible defensive 1B.

Ichiro stats started at 27, so 6 seasons less than Albert.

Albert after 30 was no where close to Albert in his 20's.

 

[calsnowskier]

Ichiro stats started at 27, so 6 seasons less than Albert.

Albert after 30 was no where close to Albert in his 20's.

Show me what he did. Not what he might have done.

 

[DHoey]

Show me what he did. Not what he might have done.

Over 9 seasons .353/.421/.943

 

[DHoey]

118 HRs, 529 RBI's, 211 2B's and, another 199 SB's.

Significant numbers.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Over 9 seasons .353/.421/.943

.355 is extremely low for an elite leadoff hitter.

 

[calsnowskier]

118 HRs, 529 RBI's, 211 2B's and, another 199 SB's.

Significant numbers.

Now show me what Pujols did.

and showing BA is pretty funny…

 

[calsnowskier]

And what 9 seasons? I looked at ‘01-‘10 and I wasnt able to recreate those numbers…

 

[DHoey]

Now show me what Pujols did.

and showing BA is pretty funny…

And what 9 seasons? I looked at ‘01-‘10 and I wasnt able to recreate those numbers…

Those were his Japan numbers

 

[calsnowskier]

Those were his Japan numbers

Should we include Pujols minor league numbers?

 

[DHoey]

Should we include Pujols minor league numbers?

Sure

 

[Clayton]

If we want to do Ichiro vs Ozzie Smith Im down for that. Not Pujols.

 

[calsnowskier]

Sure

And treat them equally to MLB production?

There is a reason why Ichiro’s numbers went dramatically down when he came to the US from Japan. The level of compaction was not the same. There is a reason we don’t include players’ minor league numbers in their career stats. The level of compaction is not the same.

If you are using Ichiro’s Japan numbers to defend him being better than Pujols, have fun with that.

 

[calsnowskier]

If we want to do Ichiro vs Ozzie Smith Im down for that. Not Pujols.

Would this discussion be in the top 100?

 

[Clayton]

Would this discussion be in the top 100?

Between 75 and 85 I'm guessing.

 

[calsnowskier]

Between 75 and 85 I'm guessing.

That sounds a bit high to me, but it is possible.

 

[Clayton]

That sounds a bit high to me, but it is possible.

You aren't a fan of WAR at all, I take it

 

[DHoey]

And treat them equally to MLB production?

There is a reason why Ichiro’s numbers went dramatically down when he came to the US from Japan. The level of compaction was not the same. There is a reason we don’t include players’ minor league numbers in their career stats. The level of compaction is not the same.

If you are using Ichiro’s Japan numbers to defend him being better than Pujols, have fun with that.

Ichiro’s numbers didn’t fall off dramatically. I agree the level of competition isn’t the same between the leagues. I believe the top end talent is closer than most think.

There is more to baseball than just power numbers. If it were, we could just add up stats and have our list.

BTW, I wouldnt vote ichiro over Pujols if they were head to head. And I won’t nominate Ichiro until Clemente is off the board

 

[calsnowskier]

Ichiro’s numbers didn’t fall off dramatically. I agree the level of competition isn’t the same between the leagues. I believe the top end talent is closer than most think.

There is more to baseball than just power numbers. If it were, we could just add up stats and have our list.

BTW, I wouldnt vote ichiro over Pujols if they were head to head. And I won’t nominate Ichiro until Clemente is off the board

Ok.

This is a sane take. I think Clemente is still a bit down the list, but not TOOOO far down the list at this point.

i thought you were trying to argue that we are legit in Ichiro territory now (we arent)

 

[DHoey]

Ok.

This is a sane take. I think Clemente is still a bit down the list, but not TOOOO far down the list at this point.

i thought you were trying to argue that we are legit in Ichiro territory now (we arent)

Nope. Just looking for opinions because I read an article about him donating 99% of his collecting to the HOF.

 

[Cedrique]

Can I nominate Randy Bass?