POLL Top 10 poll: #15 player ever

[calsnowskier]

Tris Speaker (CF) 1907 - 1928

1 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 1 top 10 MVP, 1 additional season receiving MVP votes (MVP only given in 4 years of his career)

135.0, 62.1

Bold: RBI - 1, 2B - 8, HR - 1, OPS - 1, TB - 1, all time 2B

OPS+ buckets

180 - 3
160 - 6
140 - 6
120 - 2

Shohei Ohtani (DH) 2018 - current

3 MVP, 1 top 5 CY, 1 top 5 MVP, ROY, 3 ASG

28.7, 28.7

Bold: R - 1, 3B - 1, HR - 2, RBI - 1, OPS - 2, TB - 2

OPS+ buckets

180 - 2
160 - 0
140 - 3
120 - 1

Joe DiMaggio (CF) 1936 - 1951 (3 years lost to WWII)

3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 2 additional seasons with MVP votes, 13 ASG (AS every year of career)

79.1, 52.1

Bold: R - 1, 3B - 1, HR - 2, RBI - 2, TB - 3

OPS+ buckets

180 - 2
160 - 3
140 - 4
120 - 2

Yogi Berra (C) 1946 - 1965

3 MVP, 4 top 5 MVP, 8 additional seasons with MVP votes, 15 ASG (3 years with 2 ASG)

59.5, 38.2

Bold: NA

OPS+ buckets

180 - 0
160 - 0
140 - 2
120 - 7

Berra clearly doesn’t have the bat to compete with any of the others. But he is kinda like Rickey in that his argument does not lie solely with the bat.

DiMaggio was better than I thought, but I still think this is too early for him.

Speaker is the best bat on the board right now getting serious attention. I may do one of these for Pujols for comparison.

Shohei doesn’t belong here, imho.

 

[calsnowskier]

IMHO, other bats who should be considered here are Frank, Pujols and Bench. I am not certain any other bats belong to be discussed.

I really think there are a LOT of pitchers that need to be taken off the board at this point. Clemens, Maddux, Young, Johnson, Martinez, Mathewson, Seaver…

I would not be opposed to a run of multiple pitchers starting at this spot.

 

[chappee11]

Berra clearly doesn’t have the bat to compete with any of the others. But he is kinda like Rickey in that his argument does not lie solely with the bat.

DiMaggio was better than I thought, but I still think this is too early for him.

Speaker is the best bat on the board right now getting serious attention. I may do one of these for Pujols for comparison.

Shohei doesn’t belong here, imho.

Bench has to go before Berra and Bench hasn’t caught a whiff of momentum yet. I don’t think Yogi is relevant for a while.

 

[msgkings322]

Berra clearly doesn’t have the bat to compete with any of the others. But he is kinda like Rickey in that his argument does not lie solely with the bat.

DiMaggio was better than I thought, but I still think this is too early for him.

Speaker is the best bat on the board right now getting serious attention. I may do one of these for Pujols for comparison.

Shohei doesn’t belong here, imho.

I thought catchers get extra credit though, they're never going to have massive hitting stats. Plus Yogi has to get some love for post season success both individual and team. He was the anchor of TEN World Series winners. Not saying I'd vote him over Speaker or whatever just noting the catcher discount.

 

[msgkings322]

Bench has to go before Berra and Bench hasn’t caught a whiff of momentum yet. I don’t think Yogi is relevant for a while.

They are a lot closer than you are saying here. I'd probably lean Bench too but Berra has a case as best catcher ever.

 

[calsnowskier]

Bench has to go before Berra and Bench hasn’t caught a whiff of momentum yet. I don’t think Yogi is relevant for a while.

I have not done a real deep dive of the two yet, but my opinion at this time is that I agree with this. Bench > Yogi.

But Yogi is getting votes while Bench isn’t. That’s why I included Yogi in this analysis.

 

[calsnowskier]

I thought catchers get extra credit though, they're never going to have massive hitting stats. Plus Yogi has to get some love for post season success both individual and team. He was the anchor of TEN World Series winners. Not saying I'd vote him over Speaker or whatever just noting the catcher discount.

What part of “But he is kinda like Rickey in that his argument does not lie solely with the bat.” did you miss from my post?

 

[msgkings322]

What part of “But he is kinda like Rickey in that his argument does not lie solely with the bat.” did you miss from my post?

OK coach, no need to get snippy lol

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I thought catchers get extra credit though, they're never going to have massive hitting stats. Plus Yogi has to get some love for post season success both individual and team. He was the anchor of TEN World Series winners. Not saying I'd vote him over Speaker or whatever just noting the catcher discount.

they do... but we still should probably start with bench

 

[msgkings322]

they do... but we still should probably start with bench

As I said I agree Bench has the edge but it's close

 

[MilkSpiller22]

As I said I agree Bench has the edge but it's close

Catcher is such a weird position... Bench gets all the love as the best catcher of all time... but it really is closer than people think...

the player who gets ZERO love, is Gary Carter... most don't even have him as top 5...

 

[msgkings322]

Catcher is such a weird position... Bench gets all the love as the best catcher of all time... but it really is closer than people think...

the player who gets ZERO love, is Gary Carter... most don't even have him as top 5...

Who is on that list?

Bench, Berra, IRod, Fisk, then who...Carter probably slots in at #5. Arguably you could put him over Fisk or IRod too

Bill Dickey? Gabby Hartnett?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Who is on that list?

Bench, Berra, IRod, Fisk, then who...Carter probably slots in at #5. Arguably you could put him over Fisk or IRod too

Bill Dickey? Gabby Hartnett?

piazza, campanella too..

just googled top 10 catchers of all time... the first click was espn... they had him 10th... but they also decided to bastardize their list by putting Josh Gibson at #2... other than that all others are majors...

 

[chappee11]

They are a lot closer than you are saying here. I'd probably lean Bench too but Berra has a case as best catcher ever.

Berra has much better numbers than I expected. I thought he was just a good catcher on a team that won a zillion titles…and that he said a lot of funny stuff. But he was legit.

Did he play before gold gloves were awarded, or was his defense nothing special? Bench is still the gold standard for catchers, but I can see why Yogi has a case.

Irod also mighty impressive with the 2800 hits as a catcher. We’ll probably never see anyone get to within 500 hits of him again.