POLL Top 10 poll: #14 player ever

[LHG]

Voted for my pitcher (Clemens) and my unicorn (Ohtani). Need to pick the next hitter to nominate now that Schmidt is off the board. Trying to decide between Henderson, Pujols, ARod, and Speaker. Maybe Frank Robinson?

Ok guys, pander for my vote!

How about Tris Speaker?

Career WAR of 135 (3rd all time among remaining candidates after Young and Clemens. First among hitters).

Career OPS+ of 158 (behind only Trout, Dan Brouthers, Foxx, McGwire and Greenberg among qualified hitters).

Career leader in doubles by a comfortable margin (took Pete Rose another 5 seasons to get as close as he did).

OPS+ seasons:
190 or better - 1
180-189 - 3
170-179 - 5
160-169 - 1
150-159 - 3
140-149 - 3

 

[msgkings322]

Not that we need more old timey hitters but should Hank Greenberg start showing up on the nominating list?

 

[calsnowskier]

I can't even figure out my own. I got Joe Morgan in there for the moment, but my picks are subject to change. The more I look at Morgan his absolute Prime was absolutely awesome but it really only lasted 5 or 6 seasons compared to some guys who had more elite seasons.

Morgan is the best 2B still available, absolutely. But the gap between him and Collins is much smaller than the gap between him and Hornsby. And when you ten look at him in that context against other guys like Bench, Berra, Pujols, Ripken, etc, I just don’t see him being in serious discussion at this point.

 

[msgkings322]

How about Tris Speaker?

Career WAR of 135 (3rd all time among remaining candidates after Young and Clemens. First among hitters).

Career OPS+ of 158 (behind only Trout, Dan Brouthers, Foxx, McGwire and Greenberg among qualified hitters).

Career leader in doubles by a comfortable margin (took Pete Rose another 5 seasons to get as close as he did).

OPS+ seasons:
190 or better - 1
180-189 - 3
170-179 - 5
160-169 - 1
150-159 - 3
140-149 - 3

I figured you would Speak up for him

 

[Cedrique]

I'm not ready for this guy yet, but eventually Charlie Gehringer needs to be on the list. Kind of a Wade Boggs/Tony Gwynn type guy that played 2nd base. The only thing that gives me pause is he only has 1 batting title so maybe the league average was higher in his era?

 

[Clayton]

Hornsby was so much better, though, they had to pluralize his name.

He was more than one Roger

 

[LHG]

I have to look more into Cy Young but it's a little disappointing that he didn't stick around for that 750th complete game.

Yeah, what a selfish jerk! Probably held out for more money.

 

[Cedrique]

Morgan is the best 2B still available, absolutely. But the gap between him and Collins is much smaller than the gap between him and Hornsby. And when you ten look at him in that context against other guys like Bench, Berra, Pujols, Ripken, etc, I just don’t see him being in serious discussion at this point.

I hear you. I have a day or two on this one so I definitely reserve the right to make adjustments.

 

[LHG]

They are close, and reasonable people can come to different conclusions.

I don't agree. Is that reasonable?

 

[calsnowskier]

Not that we need more old timey hitters but should Hank Greenberg start showing up on the nominating list?

I have included him a few times. But he has never garnered any discussion, so he remains on the “rotation” list.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Voted for my pitcher (Clemens) and my unicorn (Ohtani). Need to pick the next hitter to nominate now that Schmidt is off the board. Trying to decide between Henderson, Pujols, ARod, and Speaker. Maybe Frank Robinson?

Ok guys, pander for my vote!

If you want Clemens to win, he will beat out arod. Because Clemens is slightly less hated than arod.

If you want to pick the next one that has the best chance of winning it would be pujols.

 

[LHG]

Not that we need more old timey hitters but should Hank Greenberg start showing up on the nominating list?

I'm not ready for this guy yet, but eventually Charlie Gehringer needs to be on the list. Kind of a Wade Boggs/Tony Gwynn type guy that played 2nd base. The only thing that gives me pause is he only has 1 batting title so maybe the league average was higher in his era?

I have both Greenberg and Gehringer much further down on my lists.

Gehringer shows up for me around spot 60. Greenberg shows up around spot 66. Just too many other players that were good for longer and/or had better peaks to be considered right now.

 

[Clayton]

If you want to pick the next one that has the best chance of winning it would be pujols.

I have Pujols at 18 and I think I'm the highest on him here. He really hasn't gotten any votes yet

 

[calsnowskier]

I have Pujols at 18 and I think I'm the highest on him here. He really hasn't gotten any votes yet

He is on my short list of players to consider here. But my next TWO players are both pitchers, and we all know that ain’t happening.

 

[LHG]

I have Pujols at 18 and I think I'm the highest on him here. He really hasn't gotten any votes yet

He is about 30 for me. Would like to see at least the following ranked above him:
Cy Young
Tris Speaker
Roger Clemens
Mike Trout
Lefty Grove
Grover Alexander
Christy Matthewson
Eddie Collins
Mel Ott
Nap Lajoie
Frank Robinson
Jimmie Foxx
Joe DiMaggio
Tom Seaver
Eddie Mathews

However, I'd be okay with Pujols jumping maybe half of them.

 

[Cedrique]

Morgan is the best 2B still available, absolutely. But the gap between him and Collins is much smaller than the gap between him and Hornsby. And when you ten look at him in that context against other guys like Bench, Berra, Pujols, Ripken, etc, I just don’t see him being in serious discussion at this point.

I researched Ripken some and just realized that in addition to there being no World Series in 1994, the 1995 season only had 144 games. Fuck the Braves, I'm striking that one from the record. 15 division titles and no WS wins? What a bunch of losers.....

 

[Clayton]

He is about 30 for me. Would like to see at least the following ranked above him:
Cy Young
Tris Speaker
Roger Clemens
Mike Trout
Lefty Grove
Grover Alexander
Christy Matthewson
Eddie Collins
Mel Ott
Nap Lajoie
Frank Robinson
Jimmie Foxx
Joe DiMaggio
Tom Seaver
Eddie Mathews

However, I'd be okay with Pujols jumping maybe half of them.

I kinda already gave my argument for Pujols over Foxx and Pujols over Trout.

I actually do have DiMaggio right ahead of him. I think he has traction to, so as soon as he gets enough votes I suspect DiMaggio will make the list.

Collins is a hard sell imo. Seaver maybe an interesting conversation. I do think you have too many older players high up.

 

[calsnowskier]

He is about 30 for me. Would like to see at least the following ranked above him:
Cy Young
Tris Speaker
Roger Clemens
Mike Trout
Lefty Grove
Grover Alexander
Christy Matthewson
Eddie Collins
Mel Ott
Nap Lajoie
Frank Robinson
Jimmie Foxx
Joe DiMaggio
Tom Seaver
Eddie Mathews

However, I'd be okay with Pujols jumping maybe half of them.

Yeah…. About 1/2 of them get cut off upon initial perusal.

 

[Clayton]

What are the odds of Ohtani passing up Trout in terms of when their career is done? Maybe an important conversation coming up soon. I think we legitimately might be Ohtani as a top 10 player a decade from now but I have no idea how to judge that as its happening. 9 times out of 10 it doesn't happen.

 

[LHG]

Here is an interesting (to me, at least) comparison between two former teammates:

OPS+ season comparisons for Trout/Pujols
190-199 - Trout (2); Pujols (1)
180-189 - Trout (2); Pujols (2)
170-179 - Trout (4); Pujols (3)
160-169 - Trout (3); Pujols (1)
150-159 - Trout (0); Pujols (4)
140-149 - Trout (1); Pujols (1)
130-139 - Trout (1); Pujols (1)

Career WAR - Trout (86.2); Pujols (101.4)
WAR7 - Trout (65.1); Pujols (61.7)
Career OPS+ - Trout (173); Pujols (145)