Tom Cable should get a key to Seattle if that oline isnt awful

[SonnyCID]

But that was also with Brees and the Saints who's offensive philosophy is quite a bit different than Seattle's. Sure he averaged 1100 yards the previous 4 years in NO, but that was on a team that averaged throwing for 5000. I don't see Seattle making that their offensive philosophy. 4000 ish I would call their high end. I really thought when Graham was playing he was doing well. Just not used as much because Seattle doesn't throw as much. And same for the TD's... Sure a bit low, but NO throws a LOT in the red zone.

IDK how much more NO throws in the RZ than Seattle in terms of %. But Seattle throws a lot there. A motto of Carrolls is "run for field position, pass to score". I think the issue bigger than Graham's blocking was his route running. He basically ran two routes in NO, and last year he was asked to run more. He seemed like to be improving in that area and then he got hurt.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

IDK how much more NO throws in the RZ than Seattle in terms of %. But Seattle throws a lot there. A motto of Carrolls is "run for field position, pass to score". I think the issue bigger than Graham's blocking was his route running. He basically ran two routes in NO, and last year he was asked to run more. He seemed like to be improving in that area and then he got hurt.

Yeah NO is well out ahead of the pack there. Figure last year Brees completed 45 passes in the Red zone. Way way way down for him. Average is closer to 60 (55+ the previous decade).

Wilson's average is closer to 30 red zone completions (34 last year). Brees usually throws more red zone TD's than Wilson completes redzone passes there.

I agree Carroll likes throwing it close to the goal line. But Saints just throw it all over the red zone.

 

[LambeauLegs]

You do know that Jimmy Graham was hurt last year, don't you? Check out Graham's career stats.

He got his career stats in New Orleans. Did you notice that when he was healthy that in Seattle he was not used the same way that he was in New Orleans?

 

[JMR]

Seattle though does seem to be switching up their offensive philosophy a little bit. I mean you don't bring in Graham because you love his run blocking. They then draft Lockett and Paul Richardson with high picks plus spend pretty big money to keep Baldwin. To me that looks like a team devoting pretty big resources to the passing game. Then you throw in obviously a pretty big contract for Russell Wilson and the retirement of Lynch and I would say that the passing game might be featured a bit more moving forward. Probably not at the NO levels but is anybody at that level in the league?

But at the same time, they've continued to take OL pretty early in drafts (including this year) and also completely overhauled the RB position this off-season and now have 3 youngsters in Rawls, Prosise, and Collins who are all likely to play pretty large roles in the offense this year. Even last season when the passing game exploded, they were still very effective on the ground (Rawls had best ypc in the league) and only threw the ball about 2 more times a game on average. In that insane stretch where RW threw like 17 TDs without a pick or whatever it was and led the league in yards during that time, the Seahawks had the fewest pass attempts of any team in the league.

Now all that said, yeah, I can certainly see this team passing a bit more this season -- and they definitely seem to have the targets to do it -- but they are still intent on running the ball well and often.

 

[cdumler7]

But at the same time, they've continued to take OL pretty early in drafts (including this year) and also completely overhauled the RB position this off-season and now have 3 youngsters in Rawls, Prosise, and Collins who are all likely to play pretty large roles in the offense this year. Even last season when the passing game exploded, they were still very effective on the ground (Rawls had best ypc in the league) and only threw the ball about 2 more times a game on average. In that insane stretch where RW threw like 17 TDs without a pick or whatever it was and led the league in yards during that time, the Seahawks had the fewest pass attempts of any team in the league.

Now all that said, yeah, I can certainly see this team passing a bit more this season -- and they definitely seem to have the targets to do it -- but they are still intent on running the ball well and often.

I didn't once say that they were not still going to be a run style offense. I said they have done some things to suggest that they do want the passing game to be more dynamic. Yes they have done plenty to suggest that the run game will still be a featured part of this offense but I don't think it will be as heavily featured as it has in the past. That doesn't mean that Seattle is trying to become the next NO where they throw the ball all over the field. But I don't think it is a giant leap to suggest that it will become more prominent moving forward.

 

[JMR]

I didn't once say that they were not still going to be a run style offense. I said they have done some things to suggest that they do want the passing game to be more dynamic. Yes they have done plenty to suggest that the run game will still be a featured part of this offense but I don't think it will be as heavily featured as it has in the past. That doesn't mean that Seattle is trying to become the next NO where they throw the ball all over the field. But I don't think it is a giant leap to suggest that it will become more prominent moving forward.

I didn't really try to accuse you of anything. You said something about a change in "philosophy" and that was what I was responding to. I agree they may toss it a few more times a game this year, but I'm not sure that represents a different philosophy.

 

[The Oldtimer]

He got his career stats in New Orleans. Did you notice that when he was healthy that in Seattle he was not used the same way that he was in New Orleans?

Yeah I did notice that Seattle didn't use him the same way that he was used in New Orleans. He did have 48 receptions in 11 games last season. If he can come back from his injury, he will help the Hawks this season, especially in the Red Zone.

 

[cdumler7]

I didn't really try to accuse you of anything. You said something about a change in "philosophy" and that was what I was responding to. I agree they may toss it a few more times a game this year, but I'm not sure that represents a different philosophy.

Good point. Sorry wrong word choice. What I meant is Seattle is doing 2 things...

1) Trying to open up the offense as obviously a team that can beat you both on the ground and through the air is much more difficult to prepare for. Not that Seattle couldn't beat teams through the air before but I would say they are in much better shape in that regard this year compared to years past.

2) They are investing in their investment towards Russell Wilson. IF you are paying a guy $20 million then you expect him to have success on the team but you also want to show that player that you are invested in them having success. A happy Russell Wilson is a Happy Seattle Seahawks.

 

[JMR]

Yeah I did notice that Seattle didn't use him the same way that he was used in New Orleans. He did have 48 receptions in 11 games last season. If he can come back from his injury, he will help the Hawks this season, especially in the Red Zone.

Graham was Seattle's leading receiver going into the game he got hurt. And during most of the time he was healthy, the OL was complete trash. It played much better the 2nd half of the season, and I think it's no coincidence that the offense took off at the same time.

 

[Clayton]

I didn't once say that they were not still going to be a run style offense. I said they have done some things to suggest that they do want the passing game to be more dynamic. Yes they have done plenty to suggest that the run game will still be a featured part of this offense but I don't think it will be as heavily featured as it has in the past. That doesn't mean that Seattle is trying to become the next NO where they throw the ball all over the field. But I don't think it is a giant leap to suggest that it will become more prominent moving forward.

I think the idea is to go for the jugular with the passing game. Its the major difference between Seattle's offense and Kansas City's offense. Russell Wilson can throw deep and gets a ridiculous number of 20+yd pass plays out of the offense they run. Chiefs usually end up at the top or near the top on screen passes because Alex Smith's deep passes are a bit sketchy.

I haven't seen enough of Seattle to make a correct judgment but it seems like their OC intentionally goes for high reward plays when most teams try to make low risk plays. They really force other team's secondaries to make plays and they don't. I can see them always being run first just to keep teams honest but the passing game is definitely where they do their damage.

 

[cdumler7]

I think the idea is to go for the jugular with the passing game. Its the major difference between Seattle's offense and Kansas City's offense. Russell Wilson can throw deep and gets a ridiculous number of 20+yd pass plays out of the offense they run. Chiefs usually end up at the top or near the top on screen passes because Alex Smith's deep passes are a bit sketchy.

I haven't seen enough of Seattle to make a correct judgment but it seems like their OC intentionally goes for high reward plays when most teams try to make low risk plays. They really force other team's secondaries to make plays and they don't. I can see them always being run first just to keep teams honest but the passing game is definitely where they do their damage.

Honestly it is somewhat genius what they do. With having such a threat for the deep ball it means the secondary has to stay backed off a bit more which then should open things up for the run game. AT the same time by being so run heavy it can lull a team to sleep a bit and then catch them off guard when they all of a sudden do the play action deep ball. This is what the Broncos loved to do in the late 90's when they won their Super Bowls is feature the run but that deep pass for a huge play really was where they could do some major damage. Then teams freaked out of what was coming which then opened up the underneath passing game as well as Corners and Safeties didn't want to get beat deep again. When it is all clicking it is a very difficult system to stop.

 

[Clayton]

Honestly it is somewhat genius what they do. With having such a threat for the deep ball it means the secondary has to stay backed off a bit more which then should open things up for the run game. AT the same time by being so run heavy it can lull a team to sleep a bit and then catch them off guard when they all of a sudden do the play action deep ball. This is what the Broncos loved to do in the late 90's when they won their Super Bowls is feature the run but that deep pass for a huge play really was where they could do some major damage. Then teams freaked out of what was coming which then opened up the underneath passing game as well as Corners and Safeties didn't want to get beat deep again. When it is all clicking it is a very difficult system to stop.

It is pretty genius but it only works if you have a great QB with a running game (like Elway and TD) or an above average QB with great physical gifts (like Flacco and Ray Rice).

 

[cdumler7]

It is pretty genius but it only works if you have a great QB with a running game (like Elway and TD) or an above average QB with great physical gifts (like Flacco and Ray Rice).

Oh I agree you need the players to make the system work. Seattle for the most part has the system in place. They have a great QB, most likely will have one RB out of the group be able to make it work, and some playmakers at TE and WR to get behind the defense. My only worry for them is the OL. While yes the play action boot doesn't always require the best blocking it is needed to make the run game work to really sell the defense on the it. Throw in if the back side guy can focus on making sure to stop the QB instead of having to worry about the run game because the rest of the defense is getting such great penetration cutting off any backside hole then the whole system begins to fall apart. Have to see how Seattle's OL does before I see this all working out well for them.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

It is pretty genius but it only works if you have a great QB with a running game (like Elway and TD) or an above average QB with great physical gifts (like Flacco and Ray Rice).

Was pretty well done in Pitt early in Big Ben's career with Plax, Randle El, Holmes and the like too.

And I think it is more lulling them to sleep with the run. Forcing them to bite up a bit more. Then your offense gets the best of both worlds, where he can take the big play shot, but most of the time it's when conditions are really favorable for it.

 

[chf]

But at the same time, they've continued to take OL pretty early in drafts (including this year) and also completely overhauled the RB position this off-season and now have 3 youngsters in Rawls, Prosise, and Collins who are all likely to play pretty large roles in the offense this year. Even last season when the passing game exploded, they were still very effective on the ground (Rawls had best ypc in the league) and only threw the ball about 2 more times a game on average. In that insane stretch where RW threw like 17 TDs without a pick or whatever it was and led the league in yards during that time, the Seahawks had the fewest pass attempts of any team in the league.

Now all that said, yeah, I can certainly see this team passing a bit more this season -- and they definitely seem to have the targets to do it -- but they are still intent on running the ball well and often.

Thing I think people miss is that even in the last few Lynch years we were passing to set up the run, not the other way around. Our running in running situations was average at best, and sometimes downright awful.

 

[chf]

I think the idea is to go for the jugular with the passing game. Its the major difference between Seattle's offense and Kansas City's offense. Russell Wilson can throw deep and gets a ridiculous number of 20+yd pass plays out of the offense they run. Chiefs usually end up at the top or near the top on screen passes because Alex Smith's deep passes are a bit sketchy.

I haven't seen enough of Seattle to make a correct judgment but it seems like their OC intentionally goes for high reward plays when most teams try to make low risk plays. They really force other team's secondaries to make plays and they don't. I can see them always being run first just to keep teams honest but the passing game is definitely where they do their damage.

A perfect example of the KC/Smith problem was Seattle with Matt Hasselback under centre. Hass was accurate on the short and medium stuff, and couldn't throw deep to save his life. So those chunk plays were hard to come by (had to make someone miss).

 

[Destroydacre]

Seattle won a super bowl with key O-line cogs such as Breno Giacomini and Paul McQuistan. If anyone can work some magic on the line, it's Cable.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Late, high and stupid is no way to go through life... or throw a game deciding ball in the super bowl.

Bad throw by RW and bad play call by Bevell gets you a 1-1 SB record. But hey, at least they hustled down the field for a chance to win it.

 

[es4m11]

Tom Cable always fixes the lines. Just like Bill Callahan and Kyle Shanahan.

Can confirm. Dallas line "fixed"

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I'm pretty hopeful that the OL is going to actually be better then last year, especially by playoff time. Got a ton of young guys that could be studs, pretty sure enough of them will be good to make at the very least a decent OL.