tOfficial Apologize To Incognito Thread

[cdumler7]

I think it is way too early to be figuring out what all happened in this whole situation. Martin's lawyer has come out and said there was physical violence, harassment, and constant vulgar comments towards him. Now how extensive that was I guess we will find out. Icognito's camp says they have messages that show Martin being the same way towards Icognito and that he thought this was just two men making fun of each other in good fun. So who knows how this is all going to end.

Now I can see both sides of this. I have been in a workplace before where I had a boss that was constantly cussing out and verbally abusing everybody that was under her. She tried it with me one day and told me a monkey could do my job better so I told her to go to the local zoo and pick out my replacement because I was done. The company ended up firing her and offering me her job for the way that she behaved.

At the same time I understand football has a very different atmosphere than a regular job as I have been a part of that atmosphere before and constant verbal exchanges in good fun were just a part of the job. My guess is the truth in all of this lies somewhere in the middle in I am sure Martin's teammates just thought they were having some fun and maybe took some things way too far but at the same time maybe Martin has had some mental issues that have made him a little more sensitive to some of these things than most of these players are used to.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I listed eleven facts. I'm not sure what simplistic and gross generalizations I gave or where I tried to evaluate anybody's mental health. I get that you disagree with me and like to put little insults in, but you could at least try a little harder.

Also, it's law, not pre-law. I'm a proud Badger grad.

Your 99% comment and congrats!

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

It is actually the "most ...." part of that paragraph that I disagree with.

Also, for real, I know I give you shit on here but congrats for real. I know you work your ass off.

 

[JDM]

No way that's true. You might think so, but it's impossible. Unless you're dishonest about other things. Because there's not a chance in hell a guy talks the way you post for their entire life and never gets punched in the face. Absolutely ZERO chance of that. I have no reason to think you're dishonest JDM, so Im going with you don't realize your real life and on-line personas are in fact different.

You just don't understand the charm I have. I can tell you terrible things about yourself and you will laugh and try to fix it.

Also I didn't say I've never been swung at. I said it's never landed.

 

[broncosmitty]

You must have some real quick feet.

 

[beardown07]

You must have some real quick feet.

...or he was fighting your midget, coach.

 

[JDM]

You must have some real quick feet.

Quick hands.

Seriously, in person the vast majority of communication is nonverbal. Here I CBA correcting for that. My words are the same.

 

[Money]

No way that's true. You might think so, but it's impossible. Unless you're dishonest about other things. Because there's not a chance in hell a guy talks the way you post for their entire life and never gets punched in the face. Absolutely ZERO chance of that. I have no reason to think you're dishonest JDM, so Im going with you don't realize your real life and on-line personas are in fact different.

I actually knew a guy growing up that was an obnoxious little shit all the time. He never worried about getting punched because he was so short and scrawny. Eventually though...he said the wrong thing to someone his own size who proceeded to kick the living shit out of him. God...that was a great night.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

It's my opinion that Richie Incognito is a piece of shit. I thought he was a piece of shit in St. Louis. Nothing that I had ever heard about Incognito was positive including his statement that he wants to be known as the dirtiest player in the league and he goes out and works toward that goal every Sunday. I hadn't had a chance to post but I kept trying to tell people that we didn't hear what Incognito said, we only read it and it was my bet that the tone was playful and not angry based on him laughing after he said he would smack Martin's mother. It was my bet that at least in Incognito's eyes, they were boys and he felt that he could call him an N I double G A and tell him he was going to (expletive) in his mouth and he wouldn't flip out about it. At the end of the day Incognito, I believe, is still a POS but I truly can't see where he should lose his gig over this.

Martin I don't think is long for the NFL. I can't see where he will ever be accepted again in a locker room. He'll get a job, someone will think that they can get the most out of him and provide him an environment that he will feel safe in. But the sad reality is he turned his back on his "family" and has a soft label that will be hard to ever overcome with his peers. It's a shame that a person who's a little more sensitive will just get ran off but this is the life in the profession that he chose. I feel sorry for him. I do. I hate bullies, there isn't many things worse. I've never been bullied but it's not hard to see the damage it does to the vics. And for those who say that you can't consider what goes on between 300lb men bullying, I can understand but if Martin feels he's being bullied then he being bullied. I also agree with both sides that popping Incognito in the mouth is both the most ridiculous and only way to properly handle the situation. He probably handled it about as poorly as he could which will likely kill his career. I just hope he gets the help he needs and figures out if this game is for him.

As for the rest of the Dolphins, I don't question why the leaders of the team didn't see anything because Incognito seems to be the leader of the team. And if Incognito is part of your leadership then you're already failing as a franchise. If Jeff Ireland is running the show, your already failing as a franchise. I mean seriously, how does this guy still have a job? A player comes to you, an executive, the 2nd in command of a billion+$ product and your answer to his issue (any fucking issue) is to have a physical altercation with him? Are you fucking serious? Between bad coaching hires, bad drafting, bad free agent signings, asking potential draftees if their mother is a hooker and other ignorant questions this has to be the nail in the coffin. Then the coaches. They wanted Martin to toughen up. Understandable! But you send Richie Incognito of all people to toughen him up? If you're sending Incognito you better have written instructions on how you want it done otherwise it going to be done in the nastiest way possible. How dumb could they be to send Incognito to handle this task? And at the end of the day if you wonder why Incognito is still employed, it's because the Fish know that they are in some ways culpable for what went on with Martin and with the defense of Incognito's poor character running through the Dolphins' locker room don't be shocked if he's back with them soon.

On a personal note the Fish better get their shit together. My better half is a Dolphin fan and a loss to the hated Bucs will lead to a long week!!

Best post I've read on this subject. Bravo.

 

[TBBishop]

I dont doubt that martin was bullied, and i am not condoning being bullied... But is it really incognito's fault if it was his given responsibility to be hard on martin, i dont doubt that he went overboard, but if he didnt know where the line was can he really get into that much trouble??

If he didn't know where the line was? Seriously? He shouldn't have to be told where the line is. That's part of a middle school education.

 

[Jims_Doors]

I don't think it was said in a racist manner. After what has come to light in the last couple of days, I am sure of it. I think Jonathon Martin felt bullied but never addressed it. If the other guys don't know they are being perceived as bullies by Martin, they have no opportunity in changing their treatment of him.

Here's what Jason Whitlock said about Richie Incognito being called an honorary black man by his Dolphins teammates:


"Mass incarceration has turned segments of Black America so upside-down that a tatted-up, N-word-tossing white goon is more respected and accepted than a soft-spoken, highly intelligent black Stanford graduate."


He gets it.....

 

[Darkstone42]

I would like to add this to my previous post:

In the case of bullying, it is never on the bullied party to let the bully know something isn't right, especially when it's something so overt as racial slurs and threats of violence and unwanted sexual advances on both the bullied party and the bullied party's family. We're not talking about a gray area here. We're talking about something reasonable people know isn't okay.

But why isn't it on the person getting bullied to let the bully know it's wrong? Because fear is a major component of bullying. It's a form of intimidation, manipulation by force, be that force of words or actual physical force. If every bully is justified until they're told to stop, most bullies remain justified until their target is no longer around, however the target manages to no longer be around. Sometimes, it's something like graduation, or moving, or leaving the organization. Other times it's suicide or complete removal from society. Under this mentality, the bully is guiltless, and that's not right.

If the NFL is fostering a culture wherein saying these sorts of things is accepted, where it's not considered bullying, where a bullied party has to start a fight to make it end, then the NFL is moving toward a very bad place. The NFL might already be there, actually, given the rates of mental health issues in the league. Certainly, a lot of that can be attributed to concussion issues and painkiller abuse, but an abrasive locker room environment certainly doesn't help matters.

Richie Incognito and his Miami Dolphins teammates need to grow up if they think saying and doing things like that is okay because they're a football team and no one told them to stop. I don't care if their livelihood involves playing a game, they have gone through enough of their lives and experienced enough events and circumstances that they should have formed some reasonable ideas on how adults conduct themselves.

 

[Darkstone42]

Here's what Jason Whitlock said about Richie Incognito being called an honorary black man by his Dolphins teammates:


"Mass incarceration has turned segments of Black America so upside-down that a tatted-up, N-word-tossing white goon is more respected and accepted than a soft-spoken, highly intelligent black Stanford graduate."


He gets it.....

I read that article and rather enjoyed it. There were some points of what might have been deemed hyperbole, but overall, it was a well-written, well thought out article. Any and all speculation seemed reasonable, but he dealt mainly in what is known and what was actually said to make his arguments, both points which I appreciated.

 

[fastforward]

...I don't understand what is wrong with highlighting the obvious fact that Martin is not capable of contributing to an NFL team.

Martin has been contributing - as a starter - to an NFL team since he was Drafted nearly 18 months ago. Clearly he wasn't made to feel entirely welcome at that team. To suggest that he couldn't contribute to another NFL team where he was made more welcome, (or at least was made less unwelcome), requires a special kind of...ah...em...logic.

 

[cdumler7]

Martin has been contributing - as a starter - to an NFL team since he was Drafted nearly 18 months ago. Clearly he wasn't made to feel entirely welcome at that team. To suggest that he couldn't contribute to another NFL team where he was made more welcome, (or at least was made less unwelcome), requires a special kind of...ah...em...logic.

They did a poll among some NFL players of what they thought about Icognito or Martin joining their team and right now Martin was the one with more votes of being welcomed on an NFL team. So I think teams see that he has talent and is a nice guy so I do think a change of scenery and he will be just fine in the NFL.

 

[Morpheus]

People are seriously missing the point. I blame the media.

In light of the allegations by Martin's lawyer today who stated that there were threats of violence against him made by multiple players, this is not a bullying issue, or whether or not the culture in the locker room was too out of control for Martin and he had trouble getting along with his teammates because he was too "sensitive".

If these allegations are true and coupled with the verbal abuse that there is documentation of, this is a criminal issue.

Not only it is a hostile work environment that management an coaches allowed to foster but a threat of physical violence is a felony, depending on the context of it.

By itself, Incognito's VM where he said he would "Kill" him could be considered a criminal act if there is other evidence to substantiate that Martin felt threatened and feared for his safety.

This is not about whether Jonathan Martin is too soft to play in the NFL or be part of that team. It is about a culture that got out of control when a Psychopath was given free reign in a leadership position to "toughen up" a player.

There are laws to protect people in the workplace against what allegedly happened here and the NFL is not exempt from them.

 

[Darkstone42]

People are seriously missing the point. I blame the media.

In light of the allegations by Martin's lawyer today who stated that there were threats of violence against him made by multiple players, this is not a bullying issue, or whether or not the culture in the locker room was too out of control for Martin and he had trouble getting along with his teammates because he was too "sensitive".

If these allegations are true and coupled with the verbal abuse that there is documentation of, this is a criminal issue.

Not only it is a hostile work environment that management an coaches allowed to foster but a threat of physical violence is a felony, depending on the context of it.

By itself, Incognito's VM where he said he would "Kill" him could be considered a criminal act if there is other evidence to substantiate that Martin felt threatened and feared for his safety.

This is not about whether Jonathan Martin is too soft to play in the NFL or be part of that team. It is about a culture that got out of control when a Psychopath was given free reign in a leadership position to "toughen up" a player.

There are laws to protect people in the workplace against what allegedly happened here and the NFL is not exempt from them.

We'll see what comes of these allegations, but even if it's not so severe (though known evidence doesn't make one optimistic that they are not), the fact of the matter remains that these men did not conduct themselves like men. Men are respectful and dignified, and they don't cross the line. If they do, they own it and apologize, and commit themselves to never doing it again. Men welcome and accept their coworkers for whoever they are, unless they are causing harm to those around them. Men do not cause harm to those around them. Men are supportive.

The Dolphin players who called Martin "Big Weirdo" and used racial slurs and sexual and violent threats against him and his family acted like... well, frankly, I'm not even sure what word to use, but that word is most certainly not "men."

 

[Morpheus]

We'll see what comes of these allegations, but even if it's not so severe (though known evidence doesn't make one optimistic that they are not), the fact of the matter remains that these men did not conduct themselves like men. Men are respectful and dignified, and they don't cross the line. If they do, they own it and apologize, and commit themselves to never doing it again. Men welcome and accept their coworkers for whoever they are, unless they are causing harm to those around them. Men do not cause harm to those around them. Men are supportive.

The Dolphin players who called Martin "Big Weirdo" and used racial slurs and sexual and violent threats against him and his family acted like... well, frankly, I'm not even sure what word to use, but that word is most certainly not "men."

 

[BritishDolfan]

People are seriously missing the point. I blame the media.

In light of the allegations by Martin's lawyer today who stated that there were threats of violence against him made by multiple players, this is not a bullying issue, or whether or not the culture in the locker room was too out of control for Martin and he had trouble getting along with his teammates because he was too "sensitive".

If these allegations are true and coupled with the verbal abuse that there is documentation of, this is a criminal issue.

Not only it is a hostile work environment that management an coaches allowed to foster but a threat of physical violence is a felony, depending on the context of it.

By itself, Incognito's VM where he said he would "Kill" him could be considered a criminal act if there is other evidence to substantiate that Martin felt threatened and feared for his safety.

This is not about whether Jonathan Martin is too soft to play in the NFL or be part of that team. It is about a culture that got out of control when a Psychopath was given free reign in a leadership position to "toughen up" a player.

There are laws to protect people in the workplace against what allegedly happened here and the NFL is not exempt from them.

Exactly. I'v noticed that the NFLPA seem to be keeping quiet on this. I'd be interested in what they have to say...

 

[phantomfoul88]

From Cam Cleeland on Richie Incognito...

Cleeland actually was a teammate of Incognito when he was a rookie in 2005. The retired tight end does not paint a pretty picture of Incognito's character based on that season together.

"I'm not afraid to say that he was an immature, unrealistic scumbag," Cleeland said. "When it came down to it, he had no personality, he was a locker-room cancer, and he just wanted to fight everybody all the time. It was bizarre beyond belief."
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