tOfficial 2015 NBA Draft/Free Agency Thread

[Black Adam]

Stop or he'll tell you the Vegas odds on the Cavs again.

so...either the majority of this thread's participants are entirely delusional and making this up, or Wiggy's completely so full of shit he's 20 minutes away from going to critical mass...

hmm...

 

[trojanfan12]

so...either the majority of this thread's participants are entirely delusional and making this up, or Wiggy's completely so full of shit he's 20 minutes away from going to critical mass...

hmm...

20 minutes away?!? You give him far too much credit.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'll go slower for you.
The only way they would HAVE to pay him more than a qualifying offer THIS year is if they had to match or beat another teams offer.

Name me the teams who have made me offers.
Why not make him play this year on the cheap if your bidding against nobody?

Now, obviously to get him to extend long term, you need to up the offer.

We can guess all day what that amount is, and once we do see, it will be very obvious if James used his powers.

Now, let's apply some common sense here, he turned down 52/4 at a time well before the injuries/playoffs.
Most would have valued him at maybe 6-8?
If that didn't red flag you as what was going to follow, then you're very naive.

If he signs at 60/5, I'll say your right, with the cap going up, it's about what I'd say he's worth.
BUT, I KNOW that isn't happening. You know why?

I'll tell you. He already turned down 13, when he wasn't worth 8.


How about this, 30-60 day avi bet?
I say he gets 16M + average salary. Something he is not worth, and would only get because of James.


I know you're under James spell, and he thinks he is a master manipulator , but he's as transparent as Saran Wrap to me.

Why make the statement about perceived power if it isn't on your mind?
What better way to try to make someone believe that he's not involved then to be associated with those very people?
He's their bread and better. They will do what he says.
If he told Tristan to sign the contract 1 letter a day at a time in order to get an extra 20-30M, that's what he would do.

I never backtrack, I'll be right or wrong. I'll also simply it again.
It makes zero difference as to who announced they signed first if James was involved in negotiating the terms of Tristan's deal.
In actuality, if you think about it, they may have agreed on the number July 1 when it was all over the news.
Then, James told him to just chill until today so he could sign first.

Bottom line, the eventual dollar amount tells the story.






And back to your USA Today sources, etc,

No comment on Woj and others running with the fake Miller back surgery story?

Please, I'm dying to here the logic of a nitwit.

what is the bet ? that Thompson gets 16M a year? The Cavs ALREADY OFFERED HIM that!! Again...maybe I have to slow it down- 80/5= ????? 16!!!!!!!

At this point- like I said- there is no way Thompson gets the max from Gilbert- nor should he- we all agree with that....but I dont think Rich Paul can lose face to such a high degree and take the deal he turned down in early July.

To be honest I have NO CLUE where this is going- as I have heard predictions it could drag onto January unless a 3rd team or some kind of injury or acquisiton spurs movement or say Sasha KAun plays great and Austin Daye steps up- or conversely those two guys suck.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I mean it comes down to a fundamental question here.

Why is Thompson not signed right now?

WE have gone on ad nauseum about the two theories

You guys seem to think that

1. that Thompson is not signed because Gilbert does not want to spend the money beacuse he is worried about the teams bottom line. Apparently you have no clue or are tone deaf to the ridiculousness of this argument

2. Option two is- that Thompson has not signed because the Cavs do not think he is worth a max deal- because if he is on the payroll at a max deal- he will hurt the Cavs flexiblity- as it hurts your team to have a guy who- ESPN ranked as the 59th best player in the league- while paying him top 20 money.

I mean- its that easy- either its because Dan Gilbert is worried about his bottom line- which is outright LAUGHABLE- or he is worried about how a max contract would hurt the Cavs ability to add to the team going forward...

 

[WiggyRuss]

If memory serves, $94 million over 5 years isn't a max deal. It's close, but not quite a max. You said that Gilbert wouldn't let the extra $14 million stop him.

You even went on one of your rants about how much money Gilbert has, how a title was more important to him, how much the cap was going to increase and how Arison was a cheapskate and that's why Lebron left.

Wrong- it is a max 100% wrong

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think myself, bks, Turnup, Heatles and a few others have already pointed out what you were wrong about. However, I know that you're a bit slow, so I'll say it one more time.

You said Gilbert would pay whatever he had to. You said he would pay TT is 5 year/$94 million because he wouldn't let $14 million over 5 years stop him.

Yet, that's exactly what's happening. That's what you were wrong about.

I never said, wrote, or even thought that statement. it is 100% patently false. I have provided ample evidence to support that- while the Moderator of the thread makes this false accusation and provides no backup.

NO WHERE DID I EVER SAY Gilbert would pay Thompson 5 years 94 million (which is a max contract).

This is 100% undeniable fact. You guys can try and spin and twist my words howoever you want - for whatever purpose you want- but there is nothing you can do beside totally inventing bullshit out of thin air that would show I made or wrote the statement in the quoted post that Trojan said i did.

Again- simple black and white. Simply does not exist. I put on proof in black and white- over half a dozen posts- because like I said- the adament nature of Trojans accusation really threw me off because he seemed so sure of himself- except for the fact that I know what I write or do not write- and LUCKILY- everything is saved on the site in black and white for future reference. It is a beatiful thing having that evidence at your finger tips to hold the people who haphazardly make bullshit accusations they cannot stand behind.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I mean it comes down to a fundamental question here.

Why is Thompson not signed right now?

WE have gone on ad nauseum about the two theories

You guys seem to think that

1. that Thompson is not signed because Gilbert does not want to spend the money beacuse he is worried about the teams bottom line. Apparently you have no clue or are tone deaf to the ridiculousness of this argument

2. Option two is- that Thompson has not signed because the Cavs do not think he is worth a max deal- because if he is on the payroll at a max deal- he will hurt the Cavs flexiblity- as it hurts your team to have a guy who- ESPN ranked as the 59th best player in the league- while paying him top 20 money.

I mean- its that easy- either its because Dan Gilbert is worried about his bottom line- which is outright LAUGHABLE- or he is worried about how a max contract would hurt the Cavs ability to add to the team going forward...

We all KNOW why he isn't signed.
Thats never been the issue.
The issue is that YOU said multiple times that money, for any reason, would never be a factor when it came to Gilberts decision making.

Apparently now its the ONLY factor in regards to Tristan and it has WAY more to do with tax hits then future cap space because most projections don't foresee them having any regardless if Tristan gets the max, 16M or even 12M..
Once James gets his max, and unless they let Mozgov walk, theres nothing left, and they are probably already over if one does the math.

 

[WiggyRuss]

We all KNOW why he isn't signed.
Thats never been the issue.
The issue is that YOU said multiple times that money, for any reason, would never be a factor when it came to Gilberts decision making.

Apparently now its the ONLY factor in regards to Tristan and it has WAY more to do with tax hits then future cap space because most projections don't foresee them having any regardless if Tristan gets the max, 16M or even 12M..
Once James gets his max, and unless they let Mozgov walk, theres nothing left, and they are probably already over if one does the math.

money isnt the reason he is unsigned- money is irrlevant to gilbert- he isnt signed because paying Thompson a max hurts the CAvs flexibility and ability to add talent to the team going forward. It has nothing to do with the Cavs bottom line or your accusation of Gilbert being cheap (which is HILARIOUS coming from a Heat fan).

IT IS THE EXACT ISSUE - hes not signed because signing a guy to a top 20 contract who is probably about the 60th best player in the league is a really good way to seriously hurt your teams flexibility to add talent going forward. Again- an 8th grader of average intelligence can grasp this concept. Still not sure why its so difficult.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I never said, wrote, or even thought that statement. it is 100% patently false. I have provided ample evidence to support that- while the Moderator of the thread makes this false accusation and provides no backup.

NO WHERE DID I EVER SAY Gilbert would pay Thompson 5 years 94 million (which is a max contract).

This is 100% undeniable fact. You guys can try and spin and twist my words howoever you want - for whatever purpose you want- but there is nothing you can do beside totally inventing bullshit out of thin air that would show I made or wrote the statement in the quoted post that Trojan said i did.

Again- simple black and white. Simply does not exist. I put on proof in black and white- over half a dozen posts- because like I said- the adament nature of Trojans accusation really threw me off because he seemed so sure of himself- except for the fact that I know what I write or do not write- and LUCKILY- everything is saved on the site in black and white for future reference. It is a beatiful thing having that evidence at your finger tips to hold the people who haphazardly make bullshit accusations they cannot stand behind.

Everything is saved.
I'm not wasting my time searching the the numerous posts you made saying money would never be an issue for not improving the roster (which is exactly whats happening now), that the Cavs didn't need cap space because they were good as is, and how young the Cavs are...

But those posts all do exist.

I'll find them if you want to bet and claim they don't..

 

[WiggyRuss]

Everything is saved.
I'm not wasting my time searching the the numerous posts you made saying money would never be an issue for not improving the roster (which is exactly whats happening now), that the Cavs didn't need cap space because they were good as is, and how young the Cavs are...

But those posts all do exist.

I'll find them if you want to bet and claim they don't..

WTF are you talking about?

Trojan- in black and white print on the post above said that at some point I claimed that Gilbert should pay Thompson a max deal. It simply never happened and I have provided overwhelming evidence to support that point- while the opposition carelessly and maliciously spewed bullshit for which they have no backup for that turned out to be 100% wrong.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

money isnt the reason he is unsigned- money is irrlevant to gilbert- he isnt signed because paying Thompson a max hurts the CAvs flexibility and ability to add talent to the team going forward. It has nothing to do with the Cavs bottom line or your accusation of Gilbert being cheap (which is HILARIOUS coming from a Heat fan).

IT IS THE EXACT ISSUE - hes not signed because signing a guy to a top 20 contract who is probably about the 60th best player in the league is a really good way to seriously hurt your teams flexibility to add talent going forward. Again- an 8th grader of average intelligence can grasp this concept. Still not sure why its so difficult.

We all know and understand that.
Until now, you must not have, based on all of you're previous statements that you are now attempting to backtrack on.

I still would like to see the math on where you feel they will have any significant cap space.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

WTF are you talking about?

Trojan- in black and white print on the post above said that at some point I claimed that Gilbert should pay Thompson a max deal. It simply never happened and I have provided overwhelming evidence to support that point- while the opposition carelessly and maliciously spewed bullshit for which they have no backup for that turned out to be 100% wrong.

You never said max, but you said whatever it takes.
Since apparently it now will take a max, in essence you did say it without saying it.
You just didn't anticipate him asking for it when you made your earlier statements.

 

[WiggyRuss]

We all know and understand that.
Until now, you must not have, based on all of you're previous statements that you are now attempting to backtrack on.

I still would like to see the math on where you feel they will have any significant cap space.

IVe said the same thing since June- which I proved with over half a dozen posts that EXACTLY backup my point while you have offered absolutely nothing to back up the bullshit you are spewing. Nothing.

You would get laughed at if someone that knew nothing about this issue took an outside look. The first thing they would ask is- "well- if thats what he said- where is it? I see a ton of posts the guy has quoted that DIRECTLY refute your claim. Do you have ANYTHING that actually supports what you said?" And you would have to say no- "your right- the other guy has provided black and white examples that directly contradict my claim while I have nothing to support what I said."

 

[WiggyRuss]

We all know and understand that.
Until now, you must not have, based on all of you're previous statements that you are now attempting to backtrack on.

I still would like to see the math on where you feel they will have any significant cap space.

look back at the post I made where I had to educate Heatles. It was funny. He tried to call me out- and I totally took him to school. Maybe that will motivate him to read an article or a book or something. I do the math and explanation there a few pages back.

and again- if you think its about "cap space"- and not what the tax apron is and how that effects your team- then you are just as clueless as HEatles was before I so nicely set him straight.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

IVe said the same thing since June- which I proved with over half a dozen posts that EXACTLY backup my point while you have offered absolutely nothing to back up the bullshit you are spewing. Nothing.

You would get laughed at if someone that knew nothing about this issue took an outside look. The first thing they would ask is- "well- if thats what he said- where is it? I see a ton of posts the guy has quoted that DIRECTLY refute your claim. Do you have ANYTHING that actually supports what you said?" And you would have to say no- "your right- the other guy has provided black and white examples that directly contradict my claim while I have nothing to support what I said."

As CL asked, are you claiming that you didn't say that money would never be a factor in current roster decisions?
Its exactly what you said, and you were dead wrong, because it currently is the only factor in this roster decision.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

look back at the post I made where I had to educate Heatles. It was funny. He tried to call me out- and I totally took him to school. Maybe that will motivate him to read an article or a book or something. I do the math and explanation there a few pages back.

and again- if you think its about "cap space"- and not what the tax apron is and how that effects your team- then you are just as clueless as HEatles was before I so nicely set him straight.

Heatles shredded you like everyone else here.
We all know what we read that you wrote.

 

[WiggyRuss]

As CL asked, are you claiming that you didn't say that money would never be a factor in current roster decisions?
Its exactly what you said, and you were dead wrong, because it currently is the only factor in this roster decision.

No- the cash is absolutely NOT the issue here. You really think that Dan Gilbert is holding up the Thompson contract because he doesnt want to give the guy the cash?

thats so ridiculosuly stupid its funny- ESPECIALLY considering Gilbert's clear as crystal actions of spending whatever it takes.

Thompson isnt signed because you dont pay guys top 20 money that arent top 50 players- because it HURTS your teams ability to add talent....again- I have to sound like a broken record- but MAYBE at some point it will penetrate your skull and you will get a clue...all though- at this point- I cant say I am holding out a lot of hope!!! LOL

 

[WiggyRuss]

Heatles shredded you like everyone else here.
We all know what we read that you wrote.

Heatles had no clue what he was talking about. IT was hilarious. He thought he was having this big moment- and it turned out what he said was 100% absolute horse shit!

Would you like me to enlighten you as well? LOL.....its all there in black and white man....I am almost morbidly curious on how you would attempt to spin his incompetence.

 

[WiggyRuss]

↑ HEatles IGnorant Statement:
See...it really doesn't matter if you pay TT what he wants, or if you give him the original 5 year $80 mil. contract. When the salary cap jumps next year - the Cavs would still be over the limit despite what the outcome is with TT. The only difference would be the luxury tax payments - which Gilbert is now trying to soften. Which totally contradicts everything you've said. But you'll still probably have trouble understanding this simple concept.

This is why no other Cavs fan has jumped to your defense. Because they even realize how fucking retarded you are.

Me giving HEatles a little education on the CBA and how it effects your ability to add players:

Again you are a total and complete idiot and show your total lack of knowledge for the collective bargaining agreement and the NBA salary cap. OF COURSE the Cavs wont have cap room next year when it goes up to 80 million- - but the following year when the TV money kicks in the cap is going to 100

Again- THATS THE CAP- This is probably where your ignorance shows up and I will have to try and spoon feed you some intelligence since you are incapable of seeing the big picture. I will try and walk ya through it...

The cap is like 70 this year- BUT THATS NOT THE LUXURY TAX line- the Luxury tax line is 85 million. There is something called the luxury cap "apron". That just is a fancy name for being 4 M over the luxury tax line. If you are OVER the Luxury tax Apron (of 89 million - 85+4= 89 ) you cannot execute a sign and trade. Instead of having a mid level exception that starts at somewhere between like 6 and 8 million (tying it to the cap) you only get HALF of that- the tax payer mid level- --- you are also limited on some other exceptions and arcane trade rules that only the lawyers that work for the league and teams know.

So--- hopefully I have not lost you- all though- shit- it wouldnt surprise me....

SO- lets say that 3 years from now the CAP is an estimated either 100 million or 108 million? THATS NOT THE IMPORTANT NUMBER THOUGH RIGHT SLUGGER? Nope- whats the important number? THE TAX APRON!!! GOOD JOB!!! I knew you could do it!!!! if the tax apron is 89 million on a salary cap of 70- proportionately WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE FOR A CAP OF 108 million? well it was 20 more for 70... for 108? it could be between 30-40 I would guess. So again- LETS DO SOME ADDITION!!!! 108 plus lets say 35 million = 143 million is a LOGICAL estimation for the tax apron!!!!

143!!!!! Will that be a number the Cavs CERTAINLY have a chance ot be under!!! ESPECIALLY BECAUSE KYRIE IRVING AND KEVIN LOVE WILL BE MAKING A COMBINED ABOUT 42 MILLION- WHICH WILL BE A FREAKING STEAL 3 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!

HELL YES.

I hope that I cured some of your ignorance with this post slugger- and if not- I can at least say I tried --- right "dumb fuck"?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

No- the cash is absolutely NOT the issue here. You really think that Dan Gilbert is holding up the Thompson contract because he doesnt want to give the guy the cash?

thats so ridiculosuly stupid its funny- ESPECIALLY considering Gilbert's clear as crystal actions of spending whatever it takes.

Thompson isnt signed because you dont pay guys top 20 money that arent top 50 players- because it HURTS your teams ability to add talent....again- I have to sound like a broken record- but MAYBE at some point it will penetrate your skull and you will get a clue...all though- at this point- I cant say I am holding out a lot of hope!!! LOL

Lets look ahead to the 17-18 season.
James 30M
Love 23M
Kyrie 20M
Shump 10M
Andy (team option) 10M

even without Andy, thats 83M
Then, Mozgov prob gets a max next year so lets add 20M.
Lets assume they settle with Tristan at the 16M

So, without Andy, you have the same roster, 6 players, total salary of 119M

So theres my math.
What future cap space are you suggesting they will have by not giving Tristan the max?
It makes ZERO difference in that aspect.
They are already over.
It's ALL about taxes, which means it's a MONEY decision.


And I just saw yourprevious post suggesting it might be 143M, based on the 119M I'm showing you, which is occupied by only 6 players.
That would leave 24M best case to fill the roster.
Like were telling you, they have no significant space to sign anyone, and thats assuming they don't add anyone next summer.