Thoughts on trading up

[tpaulus_2]

I might be the only one who is adamently opposed to Clowney.

Taylor was my favorite pick last year, I was thrilled when they took him. He has all the tools to be a very good starting DE in this league and he flashed that at times last year. He needed to be coached up coming out of college. He's now had a year of NFL coaching and would be my pick to be your breakout surprise player for your other thread.

Why would we trade away Suh and then select a guy that would relegate a very promising player into a rotational role? Where is the value in that? You have a three down LB out there that could add a wildly new dimension to our pass rush. That improved pass rush is what will help with covering for a defensive backfield that we have no idea how they will perform this year.

Thats the same reason I dont want to draft a CB. If Houston rebounds, Slay improves, Bentley hits his make or break year (and was better last year than in his rookie year), and then you've got two developmental guys who have shown well in very limited playing time and an experienced veteran. Where does another CB fit in that mix? Who are we getting rid of? We arent going to carry 7 CB's so somebody has to go.

Whereas we have a gaping hole at OLB where the addition of a player like Mack immediately makes us better.

I do hear you on Clowney- he just oozes unease, it seems. It's hard to ignore his physical attributes, though. Passing on a Hall of Fame DE in favor of a very good OLB wouldn't be wise. Then again maybe Mack is the Hall of Famer and Clowney lives with Jamarcus Russell, Charles Rogers, and Rolando McClain by 2017... Maybe they both turn out to be HOF players?

Very interesting debate...

 

[lionstop1]

It would be hard to take a OLB (a very good one) over a DE in that situation. Any team that may have a chance at Clowney....and doesn't take him will be praying that they didn't make a mistake. I would pass on him but you can't ignore what he brings to the table in a perfect world.

Drafting Watkins wouldn't mean that the team is trying to avoid certain financial obligations in the future with CJ, imo. To me, it would mean that the team wants to come out and make a statement with the offense and put its final touches on it. Adding an elite player to an area of strength is good business, imo. Plus, what I really would like about that is that they can continue to build the defense for a long time afterwards.

 

[lionstop1]

......But, Clowney, Donald and Van Noy out of the first two rounds of a draft would be just nasty. I think those who would be opposed to trading Suh would ultimately forgive the Lions brass it they could pull something like that off.

It's a dream, but not completely impossible.

 

[Quackerjacked]

Clowney all the way. His off year that he didn't try hard, he was still a force. His numbers were down, but every team still schemed against him. Every team did way worse running towards him. He still had a good year for sacks. He was just set up with unrealistic expectations. There was a large group of people that thought he shouldn't even play college last year because he was so good.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If we move all the way up to #1 and select a WR in a draft that is loaded with talent at that position then Ford Jr. should fire Millenhew before our next pick. That might just be the straw that breaks this camel's back.

AMEN. After Millenhew calls in the pick of Watkins. The next call he gets should be from Ford Jr. telling him his time is up in Detroit.

Trading up to #1 to draft a WR would be an embarrassment to the organization. So now, I fully expect to see the Lions trade up and draft Watkins. Hell -- while they are at it -- grab Ebron at #10.

 

[Rollingthndr]

I do hear you on Clowney- he just oozes unease, it seems. It's hard to ignore his physical attributes, though. Passing on a Hall of Fame DE in favor of a very good OLB wouldn't be wise. Then again maybe Mack is the Hall of Famer and Clowney lives with Jamarcus Russell, Charles Rogers, and Rolando McClain by 2017... Maybe they both turn out to be HOF players?

Very interesting debate...

No way in hell you take a OLB from the MAC over a once in a generational talent like Clowney.

One scout said it best. Even if he isn't flat out dominate right out the gate. He is still a good NFL player, right now.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Plus, what I really would like about that is that they can continue to build the defense for a long time afterwards.

Or -- they could start building the defense this year with a top 10 pick in the 1st round and still find the solution at the 3rd WR position, as the draft is stacked with talent at the position.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Thats the same reason I dont want to draft a CB. If Houston rebounds, Slay improves, Bentley hits his make or break year (and was better last year than in his rookie year), and then you've got two developmental guys who have shown well in very limited playing time and an experienced veteran. Where does another CB fit in that mix? Who are we getting rid of? We arent going to carry 7 CB's so somebody has to go.

Whereas we have a gaping hole at OLB where the addition of a player like Mack immediately makes us better.

I'm thinking the Lions would draft a CB, because they have had a couple years to look at the CBs on the roster and they haven't been very good. Houston is coming off a terrible year and he is 30 now. The 3 draft picks from 2012 have all been on the field at one point or another, and honestly, the only one who looked serviceable to me is Jonte Green. Bentley could be a backup in the nickel, but no way he should be starting.

Slay is the one guy who has shown glimpses of being a high quality CB, but like most rookies, he had times where he looked lost out there. I think he will be the break out player on the defense though in 2014. I have really high hopes for him.

As far as where would a CB drafted in the 1st round fit? I would say at the top of the depth chart, as they'd be the most talented CB on the roster. It'd be very easy to get rid of a CB on our roster. Take your pick really -- it doesn't really matter which one they get rid of. When you can sign Mathis off the street and he is our best CB -- the overall quality at the position is lacking.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I'm a big proponent of keeping Suh, our best defensive player. However, given the cost of his giganto contract, I'd be ok with peddling him for the 1st overall pick (or 2nd pick) to get either Clowney or Mack.

While I wouldn't be ecstatic to lose Suh -- I think if they make the trade, Suh made it clear to the front office he wouldn't be re-signing with the team. I just don't see the Lions trading him any other way.

 

[Old Lion]

There is not 1 single player other than Clowney I would trade up for in this draft. Not 1. Clowney is the only one with that kind of talent that would justify it and he is a bit of a risk mentally. I thinkj his work ethic issue is overblown though. Anyway, for us I would say we don't need to mortgage the draft for him as we have 1 very good DE and 2 more serviceable ones.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

The following is an opinion. No evidence can be presented to support it. The poster offering said opinion is not responsible if the reader misinterprets, doesnt understand, or disagrees. The poster of said opinion also acknowledges that the opinion may bother or anger other posters and that he doesnt care if it does. He further asserts that he doesnt know jack shit about most things, including that which he offers this opinion on.

The public love fest with Sammy Watkins is a smokescreen. He is not the Lions #1 target and never has been. The team has known for weeks that they will not be able to resign Suh and are working to finish up the finite details of a trade. With who? I have no idea. But I do believe that we are going to trade Suh on draft night.

 

[tpaulus_2]

The following is an opinion. No evidence can be presented to support it. The poster offering said opinion is not responsible if the reader misinterprets, doesnt understand, or disagrees. The poster of said opinion also acknowledges that the opinion may bother or anger other posters and that he doesnt care if it does. He further asserts that he doesnt know jack shit about most things, including that which he offers this opinion on.

The public love fest with Sammy Watkins is a smokescreen. He is not the Lions #1 target and never has been. The team has known for weeks that they will not be able to resign Suh and are working to finish up the finite details of a trade. With who? I have no idea. But I do believe that we are going to trade Suh on draft night.

Yes! Totally agree about Watkins being a smoke screen. It wouldn't make much sense to publicly covet a player so much- as that only serves to drive up the asking price of a trade, imo.

My $.02 is that they do indeed want to trade up, but they're floating Watkins' name out there instead of their real target so that nobody is able to leapfrog them if they do pull off a trade up...

 

[Clayton]

The general assumption from Schefter and many others is that the top 4 guys are Clowney, Mack, Watkins and Robinson. Likely, only QBs can sneak in that mix.

Texans - Clowney
Rams/Falcons - Mack
Jags - Watkins
Browns - QB
Raiders - Robinson
Falcons/Rams - Matthews
Bucs - Evans or QB

I dont really see a Suh target here.

 

[lionstop1]

There's absolutely no reason for a smokescreen. They want people to believe they want Watkins for what? If the target is someone else, they are still stiring the pot for other teams to jump ahead of them. If they want Mack, how does it help them by saying they like Watkins?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

There's absolutely no reason for a smokescreen. They want people to believe they want Watkins for what? If the target is someone else, they are still stiring the pot for other teams to jump ahead of them. If they want Mack, how does it help them by saying they like Watkins?

Jump ahead of them to draft Watkins. Meaning if they actually want Mack, Robinson, Clowney or whoever, that is a little less they will have to trade away to move up. Instead of #2 overall, they could trade up to #3 or #4 or #5, depending on how they feel the other teams are going to draft.

Maybe Detroit sees St. Louis as the key pick in the top 5 and if they can get a team to trade up to draft Watkins at that spot, a player they really want will be available at say, #5. That could save Detroit from giving up a 2nd round pick possibly in this year's draft.

Making your draft plans known to the league is what makes no sense. IF Watkins was the #1 guy on the Lions board. What advantage does it give them by basically announcing it to the league?

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

The following is an opinion. No evidence can be presented to support it. The poster offering said opinion is not responsible if the reader misinterprets, doesnt understand, or disagrees. The poster of said opinion also acknowledges that the opinion may bother or anger other posters and that he doesnt care if it does. He further asserts that he doesnt know jack shit about most things, including that which he offers this opinion on.

The public love fest with Sammy Watkins is a smokescreen. He is not the Lions #1 target and never has been. The team has known for weeks that they will not be able to resign Suh and are working to finish up the finite details of a trade. With who? I have no idea. But I do believe that we are going to trade Suh on draft night.

THIS..

 

[lionstop1]

The problem is that other teams dont need any clues from the Lions to determine whether or not they want to trade up or not. Ifbthey want to trade up, they will try regardless. Who could they possibly be fooling here by expressing interest in Watkins? Are the Lions trying to convince the top five teams that they like Watkins so they will feel better about trading their pick to them? I just dont see where a smokescreen gives the Lions any type of advantage since they pick at 10 anyway.

Making it public, to me, means that there could be a deal already put in place. Or, its just something that they couldn't hide even if they tried. Lions are acting as if they "do" have a top five pick already.

I was listening to a podcast with Les Snead last week and he pretty much explained everything that happens prior to the draft and he spoke a lot about trading. He said teams already have deals in place if there are any or they have a whole list of trade options in front of them in case they would like to.

Whether it be for Watkins or not, the Lions seem pretty confident that they can move up. Is it not a surprise that we are starting to hear about Suh possibly being traded a week before the draft?

 

[lionstop1]

On another note:

Im a little pissed because I have a final exam the day of the draft that starts at 7. This might be the fastest time that i ever completed a final. Im shooting for 45 minutes, tops. Gotta be home by 8. Lmao

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

On another note:

Im a little pissed because I have a final exam the day of the draft that starts at 7. This might be the fastest time that i ever completed a final. Im shooting for 45 minutes, tops. Gotta be home by 8. Lmao

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

The problem is that other teams dont need any clues from the Lions to determine whether or not they want to trade up or not. Ifbthey want to trade up, they will try regardless. Who could they possibly be fooling here by expressing interest in Watkins? Are the Lions trying to convince the top five teams that they like Watkins so they will feel better about trading their pick to them? I just dont see where a smokescreen gives the Lions any type of advantage since they pick at 10 anyway.

Making it public, to me, means that there could be a deal already put in place. Or, its just something that they couldn't hide even if they tried. Lions are acting as if they "do" have a top five pick already.

I was listening to a podcast with Les Snead last week and he pretty much explained everything that happens prior to the draft and he spoke a lot about trading. He said teams already have deals in place if there are any or they have a whole list of trade options in front of them in case they would like to.

We spoke of this topic about a month ago. Teams put out feelers long before the draft as to what they "might want do" (trade up or down) and who has interest in their slot # and what will picks/players are involved with the trade.

I think TrustMe stated it as well as it could have been stated regarding smokescreens for a singular player in hopes that the player you're really going after falls a few spots. In this case many teams may want Watkins and knowing that the Lions are "allegedly interested in him also", may make other teams want to jump into the bidding to select him earlier with a better package of picks.