Thoughts on Eric Ebron.........

[TrustMeIamRight]

What constitutes being forced then? Are you saying like if a team starts a game doubling Megatron but has to abandon that approach because our other players are beating their one-on-one coverage?

Forced means they don't have a choice but to play single coverage on Calvin Johnson. When I say the Giants chose to play single coverage on him -- they did the same thing last year, and it was against a Lions team who were beat up at the WR position.

I'm guessing the Giants DC likes the options it gives the team to keep the QB guessing on what the defense is going to do. They can bring different players on blitzes. They can move the safeties around and try to confuse the QB with different looks. Many teams the Lions play will just camp out their safeties deep, while rolling coverage all game to Calvin's side of the field.

 

[Thruthefog]

Ebron doesn't adjust to the ball for shit.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Ebron doesn't adjust to the ball for shit.

ducking/side-stepping the KABOOM hit doesn't count

 

[gandydancer]

I think Seattle has enough DB's to cover Detroit's threat, I'm really not sure but I would like to see the out come of that game....Best DB's vs what I think could be the best Offense in the leauge this year.

Kool aid drinking sumbidge.

 

[gandydancer]

Can we place bets with the VBookie?

Starting at 5/2. May change at halftime.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Forced means they don't have a choice but to play single coverage on Calvin Johnson. When I say the Giants chose to play single coverage on him -- they did the same thing last year, and it was against a Lions team who were beat up at the WR position.

I'm guessing the Giants DC likes the options it gives the team to keep the QB guessing on what the defense is going to do. They can bring different players on blitzes. They can move the safeties around and try to confuse the QB with different looks. Many teams the Lions play will just camp out their safeties deep, while rolling coverage all game to Calvin's side of the field.

Um... ok. Then I guess that's never going to happen, then, because there's absolutely zero rules that would force them to do that.

I've laid out several scenarios where one could make the argument that the opposing defense was "forced" to abandon their double coverage on Meagtron, but you won't discuss any of them. Instead you just keep repeating yourself like a broken record without offering anything at all on what it means for another team to be forced to single cover Calvin.

I guess I don't know what to tell ya, given that there's technically no scenario to satisfy your requirements on this one. Once it finally occurred to me, I really thought you were talking about an instance where a team starts out doubling Megatron, but has to abandon that because Tate, or Ebron, or Fauria, or Ross, or whomever (or a combination of all) are beating their coverage and forcing the opposing defense to leave CJ one-on-one.

Nope, apparently that's not it either, so I guess our only option is to find some secret new magical formation where we line up on the field just right and when they try to double cover Megatron the ref goes "Nope! See the way they're lined up there? Per this totally obscure rule that hasn't been changed since it was implemented in 1929 you can't double cover the tallest WR on the field when they're in the super-secret formation. It's called the Forced Single Coverage Rule. Pretty obscure stuff, but since they know the super-secret formation, you can't double cover him on this one, or it's a 75 yard penalty."

Or some such bullshit, because I'm at a loss...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Um... ok. Then I guess that's never going to happen, then, because there's absolutely zero rules that would force them to do that.

I've laid out several scenarios where one could make the argument that the opposing defense was "forced" to abandon their double coverage on Meagtron, but you won't discuss any of them. Instead you just keep repeating yourself like a broken record without offering anything at all on what it means for another team to be forced to single cover Calvin.

I guess I don't know what to tell ya, given that there's technically no scenario to satisfy your requirements on this one. Once it finally occurred to me, I really thought you were talking about an instance where a team starts out doubling Megatron, but has to abandon that because Tate, or Ebron, or Fauria, or Ross, or whomever (or a combination of all) are beating their coverage and forcing the opposing defense to leave CJ one-on-one.

You are arguing with me and I am not the one who made the statement. Lionstop is the one who stated Ebron would force teams to single cover Calvin Johnson.

I just asked him to tell me what formation the Lions could run, because if there was one, Detroit would run it on every play.

Here is my thought process -- so you can kind of see what I'm trying to say. If a team playing the Lions are going to double team a player. Which player would it be? The best WR in football, who is a mismatch against anyone trying to cover him or anyone else on the Lions?

Ebron hasn't even caught a pass in the NFL, yet we are talking about him as if he demands Jimmy Graham type of respect.

Will teams help out with a safety over the top if Ebron runs a vertical route? I'm sure they will, that is their job. Are they going to do so and leave their CB on an island against Calvin Johnson? I sure hope so, but it is just wishful thinking.

One guy has set the NFL record for receiving yards over the past 3 years and is one of the most physically imposing WR's to ever play the game. The other is a rookie who hasn't caught a pass in a NFL regular season game yet, but he is going to force teams to double him.

To me -- it'd be like saying the Pistons are going to double team Steve Kerr because he hit a couple three pointers, instead of Michael Jordan.

 

[lionstop1]

I dont quite understand his logic on this one either TP. I'd like to think that there's something that made the Giants decide to play that coverage whether its last year or this year. I personally think Carolina will do the same thing.

 

[lionstop1]

I said Ebron will help the offense get single coverage on CJ. All our other components will do the same. Defenses will certainly chose when they want to roll coverage towards CJ but it wont be as easy as before. The Lions have always needed a #2 wr but they have also needed a player that can occupy those LBs that play underneath coverage on CJ and the Safeties that play over the top. Ebron was brought in to counter that type of scheming against them. Pettigrew and Fauria don't present the same problem for a defense as Ebron does. Defenses must respect that Ebron can get underneath the defense and over the top, while presenting a mismatch on opponents.

Now, Ebron still has to make defenses pay before teams respect him as more than just an athletic TE. At the same time, they do know what he is capable of and defensive coordinators will still pay attention to him.

 

[gvsulaker82]

The counter argument here is that we don't know how well any of those other guys would/will pan out. It's easy to look at holes and say those would have been better picks, but you're not accounting for the chance that the tackle or CB we might have picked busts out. Of course, Ebron could well be a bust, too. One never knows this early in the process.

Would taking a defender have made more sense? Yes. Does that automaticaly make it the better pick? No.



Also, I think the sudden regret/need to draft a tackle at #10 is a huge over-reaction. Our sophomore starting RT has a short-term injury. He doesn't need to be replaced over a freaking calf injury...

I wanted an OT before he draft, not because of injuries. You can go wrong drafting an OT at ten, unless they bust. You can go wrong drafting a TE at ten even if they are decent.

 

[gvsulaker82]

That's just your projection, though. Imo you can't just throw that out there as an absolute.

Our defensive scheme has been entirely gutted, and is tailored to the player's strengths, rather than the last system of doing it Schwartz's way regardless of the player's skill-set.

Now I'm not saying that we're suddenly going to have an awesome secondary, but I also think the gloom-and-doom stuff with our secondary is over blown. They're not among the best in the league, but they're not among the worst, either.

My assessment of the secondary is pretty spot on. It definitely doesnt help that it has been decimated by injuries. Just because I consider the secondary a weakness (it is), doesn mean I'm all doom and gloom. I'm pretty excited about the rest of the team (minus the kicker).

 

[gandydancer]

My thoughts on Ebron is he still has big booty Judy at home and is smacking that phat ass.

 

[tpaulus_2]

]My assessment of the secondary is pretty spot on.[/B] It definitely doesnt help that it has been decimated by injuries. Just because I consider the secondary a weakness (it is), doesn mean I'm all doom and gloom. I'm pretty excited about the rest of the team (minus the kicker).

Well shit, if you say that your own personal assessment (i.e.- "opinion") is spot on then it must be true.


I don't disagree that the secondary was/is our biggest weakness, but prior to losing both of our nickel backs in the last two weeks they weren't nearly as bad as they were getting credit for, imo. But that's just my opinion; I feel like it's pretty spot-on, but that's not really for me to decide...

 

[gandydancer]

Well shit, if you say that your own personal assessment (i.e.- "opinion") is spot on then it must be true.


I don't disagree that the secondary was/is our biggest weakness, but prior to losing both of our nickel backs in the last two weeks they weren't nearly as bad as they were getting credit for, imo. But that's just my opinion; I feel like it's pretty spot-on, but that's not really for me to decide...

Just don't keep repeating all season as a excuse.

The fact Green and Greenwood were cut after many figured they would be okay with them. Shows me that the DBs were never decent in my book.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Just don't keep repeating all season as a excuse.

The fact Green and Greenwood were cut after many figured they would be okay with them. Shows me that the DBs were never decent in my book.

Or what?

Any team that loses it's #3 and #4 CB in the first two games of the season is going to be in trouble. Factor in that we were already stretched impossibly thin with our depth to begin with, and we're pretty well fucked in that department now...

 

[jdwills126]

Or what?

Any team that loses it's #3 and #4 CB in the first two games of the season is going to be in trouble. Factor in that we were already stretched impossibly thin with our depth to begin with, and we're pretty well fucked in that department now...

I agree 100%. My issue is the 3 and 4 are like other teams 5-6. Maybe I am wrong and Lawson was so good in camp the coaches believe he was true nickel back quality. But I didn't see it.

As for Ebron he may eventually develop into a true weapon. But he also may settle into being Jared Cook. If the Lions want to make other teams respect him he needs more than 3 catches a game. But to increase his touches who do you take plays from? Bush? Fauria? Tate? CJ?

Hindsight is 20/20 on Ebron as a draft pick. I don't think many fans would say he didn't deserve to be a high draft pick. The question is for win now Lions was he the right draft pick. Thats what Mayhew gets paid to determine and right now it does not look promising for a win now team.

This could be a 3 years down the road and Mayhew not even being in Detroit, "hey Mayhew stole that guy at 10". But possibly watching Boykins abuse Gorrer on Sunday does not make that down the road pill any easier to swallow.

 

[Microwahevo]

My thoughts on Ebron is he still has big booty Judy at home and is smacking that phat ass.

My thoughts are that she still isn't attractive.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

^^^ damn straight, Micro.... no wood 4 me regarding her but that badonk a donk was fine

 

[black_magic]

Hard to believe this is the same guy thats suiting up for us:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXlNUtcyJoU

He just doesn't seem to have the same swagger/confidence

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Maybe it's bc the real Eric Ebron plays more like what you see in the following https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7dTWCkEWp0 at the minute mark of 1:20, 3:10, 3:15, not to mention the two easy drops for a TD in the Belk Bowl (no DB within 3-5 yds) or his 3 drops (2 that could have been/should have been for TD's against East Carolina, once again had the CB and S beaten by 5+ yards).... I get what you're saying BM, but this kid did have an 11.43% drop rate last year... speed ahead to those minute marks here