This team can't pitch for shit

[seahawksfan234]

They are going to get worse (if that is even possible) when the fire sale starts. I expect Encarnacion, Leake, Santana, Beckham and Bruce all to be gone. Losing those guys will be good for the team in the long run but it will hurt us in the win column this year.

I've been more optimistic about Bruce's market than others, but I remain skeptical if a team will bite on him.

Leake never received much trade interest this offseason (only rumor being when he was a piece of a rumored trade with the Padres involving Jean Segura), and he has not helped his trade value this year. He was a guy I thought would generate interest, but his 4.93 ERA and 16 HRs allowed in 11 starts is a bit of a red flag that may cause teams to shy away from him.

As painful as the team is to watch, we're better off losing as much as possible to land a high draft pick. MLB draft is more of a crapshoot than other sports, but I read an article showing that a bunch of the better starting pitchers in baseball right now were first round picks.

 

[AceKeptic]

Early cough-ups by LeBlankety-Blank-Blanc...

Errors by two pitchers in our pen I'd never even heard of...

Our bats actually want this game, our pitchers obviously do not.

 

[wazzu31]

They are going to get worse (if that is even possible) when the fire sale starts. I expect Encarnacion, Leake, Santana, Beckham and Bruce all to be gone. Losing those guys will be good for the team in the long run but it will hurt us in the win column this year.

But realistically outside of Encarnacion how much worse is the team if they lose Leake, Beckham and Bruce? I don’t think Santana gets dealt either but that’s just my own gut feeling. I still think Segura would be on the team had (rumors) the clubhouse sided with Dee during their altercation.

 

[SeattleCoug]

We could really use Leake and Leblanc to start pitching better so they can up their trade value. I sense Leblanc probably still isnt healthy but pitching because of the lack of available bodies.

 

[seahawksfan234]

But realistically outside of Encarnacion how much worse is the team if they lose Leake, Beckham and Bruce? I don’t think Santana gets dealt either but that’s just my own gut feeling. I still think Segura would be on the team had (rumors) the clubhouse sided with Dee during their altercation.

They're obviously just rumors, but I recall hearing that Segura's trade market wasn't that strong due to that incident and being generally considered a bad clubhouse guy. Segura is an All-Star caliber SS, only 29 and under a relatively favorable contract, no way he gets traded during a rebuild unless he was considered a serious cancer. The return we received for him IMO would have been a lot higher if not for those rumors. I have to assume those rumors were founded and after playing for the Angels, Brewers, D'Backs and Mariners, word was probably out around the league about it.

 

[AceKeptic]

We could really use Leake and Leblanc to start pitching better so they can up their trade value. I sense Leblanc probably still isnt healthy but pitching because of the lack of available bodies.

Start pitching better? You really think someone's gonna want to set a precedent for these guys?

 

[wazzu31]

They're obviously just rumors, but I recall hearing that Segura's trade market wasn't that strong due to that incident and being generally considered a bad clubhouse guy. Segura is an All-Star caliber SS, only 29 and under a relatively favorable contract, no way he gets traded during a rebuild unless he was considered a serious cancer. The return we received for him IMO would have been a lot higher if not for those rumors. I have to assume those rumors were founded and after playing for the Angels, Brewers, D'Backs and Mariners, word was probably out around the league about it.

I know it was just rumors but you are right about the package generally for an AS with a good contract and isn’t old. Before the Dee incident I never heard or read anything about him being a bad clubhouse guy and Jerry was so high on him. But this all goes back to Servais IMO not doing the main job of a manager and that is run the clubhouse. The in game decisions for a manager are mostly already laid out by the scouting department. Servais doesn’t seem to know how to handle a bullpen but if anyone remembers Lou wasn’t very good at either until he got the trio of Nelson, Rhodes and Sasaki.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I know it was just rumors but you are right about the package generally for an AS with a good contract and isn’t old. Before the Dee incident I never heard or read anything about him being a bad clubhouse guy and Jerry was so high on him. But this all goes back to Servais IMO not doing the main job of a manager and that is run the clubhouse. The in game decisions for a manager are mostly already laid out by the scouting department. Servais doesn’t seem to know how to handle a bullpen but if anyone remembers Lou wasn’t very good at either until he got the trio of Nelson, Rhodes and Sasaki.

I never heard of read anything about being a bad clubhouse guy before that, but I assume that due to sports culture those things don't generally leak out to the media very often. Reporters are unlikely to report on it unless it's a serious issue because that is just TMZ-tier reporting. Also a manager or player isn't going to go out there and rail on someone they have to work with every day.

I have to assume that the Mariners and D'Backs wouldn't have been so willing to depart with Segura unless it was a tendency of his to be a disruption. That plus the issue with Dee Gordon seems to confirm that behind the scenes there were probably issues. Obviously idk if there was a problem in Arizona, but if there was and Dipoto knew about it, he might've figured that a change of scenery would help and/or his on field production justified it.

 

[Duders]

I never heard of read anything about being a bad clubhouse guy before that, but I assume that due to sports culture those things don't generally leak out to the media very often. Reporters are unlikely to report on it unless it's a serious issue because that is just TMZ-tier reporting. Also a manager or player isn't going to go out there and rail on someone they have to work with every day.

I have to assume that the Mariners and D'Backs wouldn't have been so willing to depart with Segura unless it was a tendency of his to be a disruption. That plus the issue with Dee Gordon seems to confirm that behind the scenes there were probably issues. Obviously idk if there was a problem in Arizona, but if there was and Dipoto knew about it, he might've figured that a change of scenery would help and/or his on field production justified it.

To be honest, if Segura had a club house rep like some here have indicated and Dipoto was aware of it, he took a big gamble putting him in the mix with Dee, Cano and whoever else might be part of a volatile mix. I'm sorry but I just don't have the same faith/confidence in Dipoto that many on this board may have. Hate to harp on this, but his choice for a Manager and continuing with that choice have kind of done it for me.

 

[seahawksfan234]

To be honest, if Segura had a club house rep like some here have indicated and Dipoto was aware of it, he took a big gamble putting him in the mix with Dee, Cano and whoever else might be part of a volatile mix. I'm sorry but I just don't have the same faith/confidence in Dipoto that many on this board may have. Hate to harp on this, but his choice for a Manager and continuing with that choice have kind of done it for me.

I think people took Dee's side because by all accounts he seems to be a really great guy. He does a lot of philanthropy work:

 

[wazzu31]

I think people took Dee's side because by all accounts he seems to be a really great guy. He does a lot of philanthropy work:

Without question Dee is a great dude from his past. And I truly wish more people were like him in terms of just because you were born into a shitty hand you can over come it. My best friend from HS had a shitty upbringing and went on to get accepted into Columbia. Other than Doug Baldwin (for which I wrote about on the Hawks board) is a dude any person should respect and strive to live like.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I just went back and looked at the Predictions thread to remember how many wins some of us predicted.
Cloud 162
Ulmax 85...but also 75
ZiPs 77
AnoitedOne 75
SeattyleCoug 75
jerseyhawkfan 75
Las Vegas 74.5
Fangraphs 73
Duders 72
PolarVortex 68

Bringing this topic back up again;

Prior to the season I put it at 75 +/- 3 and updated it to 72 +/- 3.

With the Mariners currently sitting at 25-37 and now beginning to move guys, I think we may have been drastically wrong. The Mariners are currently on pace for 65 wins. Had the Mariners played at their current .403 winning percentage the first 15 games of the season, they would be 19-46 which would be the worst record in baseball and they'd be on pace for... 49 wins...*

*Disclaimer, I might've fucked up the math but I think it's right. A .403 winning percentage over 15 games is 6-9 so I think I'm right.

With 100 games left the Mariners would have to play .500 ball (unlikely) to reach the 75 wins I predicted initially.

Knowing the Mariners, by game 150 they'll have the worst record in baseball then win the next 12 games wrecking our draft positioning.