This Rebuild

[mcnabb7542]

Personally I wish they would’ve fired him the day after the season ended last year. He was given the extension just like Jack Z did so he wasn’t a lame duck GM at the deadline. I think this is where most of the people venting online are coming from but that is just my opinion. But the FO decided to let him do a rebuild and they let the cat out of the bag on it. I don’t feel they can let him go before this contract is up or they will continue on this route where they’ll never get an up and coming GM, just dudes no other organization wants.

I think Dipoto was hired in the begin to do exactly what they are doing now.
I think they got greedy and decided to try the vet game and win now just to get butts in the seats, it back fired signing a bunch of guys that couldn't live up to the dog days of August.

As much as I want to throw him under the bus and say get out, I think he deserves the shot of riding this out now. Granted he signed his own execution paperwork by saying "2021 being the winning turn around" . I think that was totally foolish, now your pressing those younger guys a lot faster and harder, guy guys might not live up to the hype.

 

[SeattleCoug]

As much as I want to throw him under the bus and say get out, I think he deserves the shot of riding this out now. Granted he signed his own execution paperwork by saying "2021 being the winning turn around" . I think that was totally foolish, now your pressing those younger guys a lot faster and harder, guy guys might not live up to the hype.

Right and he already i guess has come out and said dont expect any big signings this winter.

There is no way you can expect to compete in 2021 simply by making minimal talent acquistion/stop gaps to go along with whats already in place.

That goes along with everything that has always been the case tho. Build it conviently and hope to get lucky.

 

[wazzu31]

ugh man thats painful to even read. Not that I am claiming to be a draft expert but he was my guy back in that draft. sigh

If I remember correctly he was the consensus pick by everyone to come to the Mariners and why I can’t think of anyone who liked the pick. I’m not a draft expert either but with a top pick you should always go for high upside over safe and MLB ready.

 

[wazzu31]

I think Dipoto was hired in the begin to do exactly what they are doing now.
I think they got greedy and decided to try the vet game and win now just to get butts in the seats, it back fired signing a bunch of guys that couldn't live up to the dog days of August.

As much as I want to throw him under the bus and say get out, I think he deserves the shot of riding this out now. Granted he signed his own execution paperwork by saying "2021 being the winning turn around" . I think that was totally foolish, now your pressing those younger guys a lot faster and harder, guy guys might not live up to the hype.

I don’t truly think he was brought in to rebuild. He took the job over with a high payroll then proceeded to deal his top prospect and up and coming SS. Maybe he interviewed for a rebuild but nothing he did signaled rebuild. Maybe he didn’t have the stones to tell ownership no or maybe he thought they could win with his idiotic trading every 2 minutes.

I will throw him under the bus, hit reverse, then put it in drive again. But I do feel the same where he has to see this through. But you are totally right with he did essentially say if 2021 we aren’t winners then I don’t deserve a job. Which I guess to his credit he said that openly.

 

[NWinAZ]

If I remember correctly he was the consensus pick by everyone to come to the Mariners and why I can’t think of anyone who liked the pick. I’m not a draft expert either but with a top pick you should always go for high upside over safe and MLB ready.

They questioned his ankle injury which to me was chicken sh*t. Injuries heal and it is obvious now that his ankle has been just fine. To me that was the biggest screw up of draft picks in M's history. That includes when they told Tulowitzky the night before the draft he was their guy only to take Clement.

 

[wazzu31]

They questioned his ankle injury which to me was chicken sh*t. Injuries heal and it is obvious now that his ankle has been just fine. To me that was the biggest screw up of draft picks in M's history. That includes when they told Tulowitzky the night before the draft he was their guy only to take Clement.

To be fair to the organization, I really liked Clement and he was the perfect player for the Mariners at the time. They needed a catcher and he was also a left handed power bat back when only lefties were hitting HR’s. Sucks that he busted but that is one I will never blame them for.l that because had I been in their shoes I would’ve chosen him as well.

The Hultzen pick for sure I will. Jack’s press conference on the pick was cringeworthy with him something along the lines of he was the most MLB ready. Similar to them taking Morrow who was MLB ready in the pen but not as a starter, as just like in the NFL I hate when teams take kickers or bullpen arms with their first round selection.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

The Mariners have always had an issue of getting quality General Managers. The only one with any credibility was Pat Gillick. Since then they have hired 2 dudes no team wanted and Jerry was a guy who just got fired and has nothing on his resume to say he deserves a quality GM job...which unfortunately the Mariners GM job is not a high quality job at the moment.

So maybe there are examples of other franchises but, to me, it would be a death nail if the franchise were to let him go now when they already haven’t had a decent candidate apply since Pat Gillick left.

The problem is ownership doesn't look hard enough for the right GM. There are teams that consistently win so the idea should be looking into those teams where the assistant GM has been groomed and ready for the next step. I'm tired of bringing in GMs who have been fired and just given the job. Getting rid of Jerry isn't the death nail but possibly a breath of fresh air if they dived into one of these assistant GMs.

 

[NWinAZ]

To be fair to the organization, I really liked Clement and he was the perfect player for the Mariners at the time. They needed a catcher and he was also a left handed power bat back when only lefties were hitting HR’s. Sucks that he busted but that is one I will never blame them for.l that because had I been in their shoes I would’ve chosen him as well.

My issue with the pick, and I watched Cement on TV during the Pac 10 playoffs I believe it was and he tore it up, is that bat first catchers in college rarely do much in the majors over the last 25 years.

The Hultzen pick for sure I will. Jack’s press conference on the pick was cringeworthy with him something along the lines of he was the most MLB ready. Similar to them taking Morrow who was MLB ready in the pen but not as a starter, as just like in the NFL I hate when teams take kickers or bullpen arms with their first round selection.

My second worst pick was Morrow over Lincecum. Nothing against Morrow, but Lincecum was the pick and I was absolutely sold he was going to be taken by M's.

 

[NWinAZ]

The problem is ownership doesn't look hard enough for the right GM. There are teams that consistently win so the idea should be looking into those teams where the assistant GM has been groomed and ready for the next step. I'm tired of bringing in GMs who have been fired and just given the job. Getting rid of Jerry isn't the death nail but possibly a breath of fresh air if they dived into one of these assistant GMs.

I have said this many times and most people think I am being flip but I am not. They don't want to hire established winning GM's or managers because it creates a standard ownership does not want to meet. Those type hires demand control and refuse to lose. Lou left because of it. Hargrove left during a playoff run because of lack of ownership focus o winning and more towards making fans happy. It is a weird business in that the best are not the most profitable and ownership no matter what looks for profitability over everything else (and yes they have that right since it is their money). It is sad, but they hire for mediocrity because that is what makes the most with smaller investment.

 

[wazzu31]

My issue with the pick, and I watched Cement on TV during the Pac 10 playoffs I believe it was and he tore it up, is that bat first catchers in college rarely do much in the majors over the last 25 years.



My second worst pick was Morrow over Lincecum. Nothing against Morrow, but Lincecum was the pick and I was absolutely sold he was going to be taken by M's.

I totally understand people not liking Clement in hindsight. But he was an above average catcher who was destroying balls that should’ve translated to Safeco Field. Clement to me, is the definition of why the MLB draft is such a crapshoot. (well Zunino for that matter as well)

Same deal with Morrow, I would’ve done the exact same thing drafting him over Lincecum. He was so awkward in his delivery and his frame was awkward as well that he had future injury concerns. Had I known he would’ve became the Freak then I would’ve changed my tune but I for one didn’t see that. I’m mostly just siding with the I believed this at that time so I have to stick with what I said openly.

 

[NWinAZ]

I totally understand people not liking Clement in hindsight. But he was an above average catcher who was destroying balls that should’ve translated to Safeco Field. Clement to me, is the definition of why the MLB draft is such a crapshoot. (well Zunino for that matter as well)

Same deal with Morrow, I would’ve done the exact same thing drafting him over Lincecum. He was so awkward in his delivery and his frame was awkward as well that he had future injury concerns. Had I known he would’ve became the Freak then I would’ve changed my tune but I for one didn’t see that. I’m mostly just siding with the I believed this at that time so I have to stick with what I said openly.

To me Clement, at the time, was a metal bat star. I wasn't sold on him as a pro.

Morrow wasn't even a consideration for me. I was locked in on Timmy Boy from the start.

Josh Fields was a joke both when drafted and then next year when signed just before the draft when a new GM could have had a do-over.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I have said this many times and most people think I am being flip but I am not. They don't want to hire established winning GM's or managers because it creates a standard ownership does not want to meet. Those type hires demand control and refuse to lose. Lou left because of it. Hargrove left during a playoff run because of lack of ownership focus o winning and more towards making fans happy. It is a weird business in that the best are not the most profitable and ownership no matter what looks for profitability over everything else (and yes they have that right since it is their money). It is sad, but they hire for mediocrity because that is what makes the most with smaller investment.

It's truly sad cause more money comes through the gates with a winning product on the field. Add playoffs that stadium is filled for full revenue but I guess 10000 people a game is profitable enough so why should they care.

 

[wazzu31]

The problem is ownership doesn't look hard enough for the right GM. There are teams that consistently win so the idea should be looking into those teams where the assistant GM has been groomed and ready for the next step. I'm tired of bringing in GMs who have been fired and just given the job. Getting rid of Jerry isn't the death nail but possibly a breath of fresh air if they dived into one of these assistant GMs.

Personally what I would like for them to do is suck it up and realize they are a stepping stone job at the current moment. Bring in someone younger who has ambition to do a good job here and go on to bigger and better things. This philosophy has worked for my Cougs in basketball in the only times they have been real successful. Just realize it isn’t the A squad job, but if you succeed here then you will get the A squad offer.

I just hate that the organization is so reactionary. Had they bought into this new age baseball crap like they said they should hired a younger dude instead of Jack Z. Then they had a roster that is just a few pieces away from the playoffs and decide to hire Jerry who couldn’t sniff the playoffs, with an open checkbook, putting together a roster that included a guy who might go down as the GOAT. I just want them to pick and lane and sink or swim in that lane. Not choose one, then hop to another one (Kikuchi) then hop back. Just give me a direction I can get behind, I’ll suffer through bad times as long as there is something to get excited for which right now is the Travelers.

 

[wazzu31]

To me Clement, at the time, was a metal bat star. I wasn't sold on him as a pro.

Morrow wasn't even a consideration for me. I was locked in on Timmy Boy from the start.

Josh Fields was a joke both when drafted and then next year when signed just before the draft when a new GM could have had a do-over.

Completely agree with Fields. We can agree to disagree with Clement, even with aluminum bats his raw power on paper translated to at worse a better offensive but worse defensive Zunino. He was suppose to be that era’s Buster Posey but flopped, I can’t blame them.

And with Lincecum I just can’t hate on them for it. I’ve already stated but he had Tommy John written all over him, but just like other sports some guys with red flags actually overcome those and shine and others bust with those red flags. I will stay firm on my belief that had they not rushed him up as a set up guy then closer Morrow would’ve been a valuable number 2 to Felix and it would’ve changed the course of the organization by not needing to deal for Bedard.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Personally what I would like for them to do is suck it up and realize they are a stepping stone job at the current moment. Bring in someone younger who has ambition to do a good job here and go on to bigger and better things. This philosophy has worked for my Cougs in basketball in the only times they have been real successful. Just realize it isn’t the A squad job, but if you succeed here then you will get the A squad offer.

I just hate that the organization is so reactionary. Had they bought into this new age baseball crap like they said they should hired a younger dude instead of Jack Z. Then they had a roster that is just a few pieces away from the playoffs and decide to hire Jerry who couldn’t sniff the playoffs, with an open checkbook, putting together a roster that included a guy who might go down as the GOAT. I just want them to pick and lane and sink or swim in that lane. Not choose one, then hop to another one (Kikuchi) then hop back. Just give me a direction I can get behind, I’ll suffer through bad times as long as there is something to get excited for which right now is the Travelers.

I'll give credit to Jerry for redoing the farm system but I don't trust him to rebuild the team. Bringing in a hungry new young GM is the right way to go and I could deal with another year of losing while he molds this team in his view that we could back. Sadly I feel this is a pipe dream.

 

[NWinAZ]

It's truly sad cause more money comes through the gates with a winning product on the field. Add playoffs that stadium is filled for full revenue but I guess 10000 people a game is profitable enough so why should they care.

From what I understand, the profit sharing is worth more than tickets sales. And ex-President (Lincoln) said they lose money hosting playoffs. Odd.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

From what I understand, the profit sharing is worth more than tickets sales. And ex-President (Lincoln) said they lose money hosting playoffs. Odd.

Not sure how they lose money hosting playoff games, doesn't make sense.

 

[NWinAZ]

And with Lincecum I just can’t hate on them for it. I’ve already stated but he had Tommy John written all over him, but just like other sports some guys with red flags actually overcome those and shine and others bust with those red flags. I will stay firm on my belief that had they not rushed him up as a set up guy then closer Morrow would’ve been a valuable number 2 to Felix and it would’ve changed the course of the organization by not needing to deal for Bedard.

Morrow had a huge red flag with Type 1 Diabetes. That is pretty serious especially for a pro athlete that has to keep his energy up. I applaud him for what he accomplished with it, but it would have given me pause to draft him that high.

 

[NWinAZ]

Not sure how they lose money hosting playoff games, doesn't make sense.

MLB gets the biggest share and not the teams. Players complain because their share is far less per game than their regular season game average. Lincoln said the cost for game expenses and extra security and something about paying for traffic revision during games as well.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

MLB gets the biggest share and not the teams. Players complain because their share is far less per game than their regular season game average. Lincoln said the cost for game expenses and extra security and something about paying for traffic revision during games as well.

Well than sign me up for an owner like what Houston, Boston, Dodgers, Yankees etc have cause all they care about is adding trophies to their case and not the bottom line.