This Rebuild

[wazzu31]

Morrow had a huge red flag with Type 1 Diabetes. That is pretty serious especially for a pro athlete that has to keep his energy up. I applaud him for what he accomplished with it, but it would have given me pause to draft him that high.

That’s a red flag for sure, but put yourself in the scouting department for a second. Player A has a form of diabetes that is controlled with medicine that you have a trainer on staff that can administer or B a player who’s entire game is a Tommy John surgery waiting to happen. Luckily neither really affected them where both had/have gone on to have overall successful careers. I guess we can disagree, I just don’t think that was a bad pick. It was bad in how they used him I can give you that.

 

[wazzu31]

I'll give credit to Jerry for redoing the farm system but I don't trust him to rebuild the team. Bringing in a hungry new young GM is the right way to go and I could deal with another year of losing while he molds this team in his view that we could back. Sadly I feel this is a pipe dream.

I think the I don’t trust Jerry crowd is nearly unanimous among fans one way or another. Some want him fired now, some wish he wasn’t ever hired, I’m in the camp of he should’ve been fired when he told Stanton he wants to rebuild, others are in the I don’t trust Jerry because he was hired by the Mariners and they haven’t really done anything to make us trust them. Jerry raised the payroll in his first 3 years, hasn’t had any homegrown guys developed under his watch, then back to my Angels argument he hasn’t shown the ability to hit with the right FA with an open checkbook.

I have always openly stated I think Jerry is his own worst enemy. He seems like a very bright dude, just he seems to think (at least with his actions) he is smarter than everyone else and you are an idiot for questioning anything he does. Which I guess is fair for a GM who has any sniff of success but on his entire resume he has really had no success anywhere besides he made the big leagues. Couple that with he has had a trade addiction since he took over and it is just a recipe for disaster IMO. I think everyone can give him credit for rebuilding the farm system as it seems to be on solid footing, but on the same note he should get the blame for taking a blow torch to already depleted farm system he had.

In general, anyone that knows me knows I despise Pat Gillick and Jerry’s track record seems to be that of a really, really poor mans Pat Gillick where when he leaves the job the organization is in shambles.

 

[seattlefan75]

My opinion on all these missed draft picks is that I believe there is a problem with player development. If you are drafted in the first round let alone top 5 and your career is worse than being a full time starter, unless there was an injury or some kind of off the field problem then that organization failed you. In the last 10 years name me some players the mariners developed that turned out to relevant starters even on another team? Kyle Seager, James Paxton and Edwin Diaz?

 

[SeattleCoug]

Morrow had a huge red flag with Type 1 Diabetes. That is pretty serious especially for a pro athlete that has to keep his energy up. I applaud him for what he accomplished with it, but it would have given me pause to draft him that high.

I actually didnt know that at all. I figured the main reason he didnt work here was because the organization yo-yo'd him so much between starter and reliever that he could never get his footing. Obviously he will always be mainly known for the guy not named Lincecum

 

[NWinAZ]

I actually didnt know that at all. I figured the main reason he didnt work here was because the organization yo-yo'd him so much between starter and reliever that he could never get his footing. Obviously he will always be mainly known for the guy not named Lincecum

I thought I remembered that one of the reasons for putting him in the pen was to help control his diabetes but I am not 100% sure of it.

I read an article that said he was pitching in high school and feeling really tired and sick a lot when a teammate heard him and told him to go to the doctor to check for diabetes. Turns out the teammate just did a paper on diabetes and knew the symptoms. Smart kid.

 

[wazzu31]

I thought I remembered that one of the reasons for putting him in the pen was to help control his diabetes but I am not 100% sure of it.

I read an article that said he was pitching in high school and feeling really tired and sick a lot when a teammate heard him and told him to go to the doctor to check for diabetes. Turns out the teammate just did a paper on diabetes and knew the symptoms. Smart kid.

I thought they put him in the pen because they didn’t have a set up guy and he didn’t have ability at the time say no? Then they got all butthurt when he said he wanted to start again.

 

[wazzu31]

My opinion on all these missed draft picks is that I believe there is a problem with player development. If you are drafted in the first round let alone top 5 and your career is worse than being a full time starter, unless there was an injury or some kind of off the field problem then that organization failed you. In the last 10 years name me some players the mariners developed that turned out to relevant starters even on another team? Kyle Seager, James Paxton and Edwin Diaz?

Player development is something I think every Mariners fan have harped on. Haven’t developed any homegrown position playing super stars. Especially seeing how many times players struggle here yet go on to become above average to great ballplayers in their next stop. This is where I’m so afraid of with how deep the OF depth is in the organization is my biggest fear is Jerry will trade the wrong ones for guys he thinks can make them win in 2021 like he has stated his goal is.

 

[NWinAZ]

I thought they put him in the pen because they didn’t have a set up guy and he didn’t have ability at the time say no? Then they got all butthurt when he said he wanted to start again.

You could be right.

 

[NWinAZ]

Player development is something I think every Mariners fan have harped on. Haven’t developed any homegrown position playing super stars. Especially seeing how many times players struggle here yet go on to become above average to great ballplayers in their next stop. This is where I’m so afraid of with how deep the OF depth is in the organization is my biggest fear is Jerry will trade the wrong ones for guys he thinks can make them win in 2021 like he has stated his goal is.

Here is a good article with him. He says diabetes wasn't the main reason for electing to go to the pen, but repeatedly says routine is the key to managing diabetes and the pen gives him that. And for those who want to know a little more about diabetes, he shines a light on that as well. Worth the read.

Brandon Morrow: Closing the Deal

 

[NWinAZ]

I use to have money and a career, but now I am nearly homeless. On the bright side, I can call it a life rebuild right?

****This was a joke****

 

[wazzu31]

Here is a good article with him. He says diabetes wasn't the main reason for electing to go to the pen, but repeatedly says routine is the key to managing diabetes and the pen gives him that. And for those who want to know a little more about diabetes, he shines a light on that as well. Worth the read.

Brandon Morrow: Closing the Deal

I have close family who have type 2 and ya it sucks but it is easily, well whatever the word is for sucks but can do if you put extra effort into, manageable for them and they don’t have world class trainers and doctors. I’m not down playing diabetes vs tommy john but if I were in their shoes, me personally I would choose diabetes over TJ. But like I said we can agree to disagree on Morrow/Lincecum.

Maybe it did have something to do with it, I just remember the story coming out after he was sent down to Tacoma to stretch his arm out that there was serious tension between his camp and the Mariners for handling him. I’m sure there is an article about it after the trade for League. If I remember correctly on the radio it sounded like Morrow went off on the FO but this was pre Twitter.

 

[NWinAZ]

If I remember correctly on the radio it sounded like Morrow went off on the FO but this was pre Twitter.

Could be right, but I read several articles on him and they said he was the calmest person ever to play the game. They talk about he would never say if he was good or even hint at it. They put him in the pen to get him to the majors (Hargrove). He said he wanted to start but understood. The next year he said he didn't want to start anymore because of what the article spoke about. I think for the first time he realized the care difference of starting vs relieving with diabetes.

I have close family who have type 2 and ya it sucks but it is easily, well whatever the word is for sucks but can do if you put extra effort into, manageable for them and they don’t have world class trainers and doctors.

I am happy for them, but there is no such thing as easily anything with diabetes. This one I can tell you from experience. He had Type 1 which is even more difficult than type 2 in many ways. He had a pump inserted to help him regulate but even for a pitcher TJ surgery has made some pitchers stronger whereas no diabetes has ever made anyone stronger.

I get your point and I am sure you are not alone by any stretch in your preferred choice including with baseball people. Size and style made Morrow the poster child for MLB pitchers while Lincecum was the poster child for do not draft. I am sure my major disappointment came from wanting Lincecum because he was a UW kid and everybody loves a hometown hero.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I think the I don’t trust Jerry crowd is nearly unanimous among fans one way or another. Some want him fired now, some wish he wasn’t ever hired, I’m in the camp of he should’ve been fired when he told Stanton he wants to rebuild, others are in the I don’t trust Jerry because he was hired by the Mariners and they haven’t really done anything to make us trust them. Jerry raised the payroll in his first 3 years, hasn’t had any homegrown guys developed under his watch, then back to my Angels argument he hasn’t shown the ability to hit with the right FA with an open checkbook.

I have always openly stated I think Jerry is his own worst enemy. He seems like a very bright dude, just he seems to think (at least with his actions) he is smarter than everyone else and you are an idiot for questioning anything he does. Which I guess is fair for a GM who has any sniff of success but on his entire resume he has really had no success anywhere besides he made the big leagues. Couple that with he has had a trade addiction since he took over and it is just a recipe for disaster IMO. I think everyone can give him credit for rebuilding the farm system as it seems to be on solid footing, but on the same note he should get the blame for taking a blow torch to already depleted farm system he had.

In general, anyone that knows me knows I despise Pat Gillick and Jerry’s track record seems to be that of a really, really poor mans Pat Gillick where when he leaves the job the organization is in shambles.

Good points all around. The trades that netted him prospects were nice to replenish the farm system but I feel he could have gotten a bit more in return. I think a couple of teams spooked him into making those trades when he could have held out a tad longer for a better prospect. His track record overall sucks which why I wish the FO would make a move but he'll probably be around for another couple of years.

 

[wazzu31]

Could be right, but I read several articles on him and they said he was the calmest person ever to play the game. They talk about he would never say if he was good or even hint at it. They put him in the pen to get him to the majors (Hargrove). He said he wanted to start but understood. The next year he said he didn't want to start anymore because of what the article spoke about. I think for the first time he realized the care difference of starting vs relieving with diabetes.



I am happy for them, but there is no such thing as easily anything with diabetes. This one I can tell you from experience. He had Type 1 which is even more difficult than type 2 in many ways. He had a pump inserted to help him regulate but even for a pitcher TJ surgery has made some pitchers stronger whereas no diabetes has ever made anyone stronger.

I get your point and I am sure you are not alone by any stretch in your preferred choice including with baseball people. Size and style made Morrow the poster child for MLB pitchers while Lincecum was the poster child for do not draft. I am sure my major disappointment came from wanting Lincecum because he was a UW kid and everybody loves a hometown hero.

Well I did try to say something that isn’t easily just couldn’t think of the word. But ya I guess we can just disagree with the diabetes type stuff, I’m not familiar enough with that subject to argue that vs tommy john. My opinion still stands that 100 out of 100 times I would’ve made the same selection.

And Lincecum isn’t really local, he went to a HS in the area and then went to some scrub school who at the time had a turf infield and grass outfield. It’s a Mickey Mouse University if you ask me.

 

[wazzu31]

Good points all around. The trades that netted him prospects were nice to replenish the farm system but I feel he could have gotten a bit more in return. I think a couple of teams spooked him into making those trades when he could have held out a tad longer for a better prospect. His track record overall sucks which why I wish the FO would make a move but he'll probably be around for another couple of years.

Really only the Paxton trade was one that I was disappointed in the return. I know in the Mets deal he really wanted McNeil which I had never heard of but now understand why he wanted him. I will give Jerry massive props for this past offseason. I just think anyone who is stoked about it should also have perspective of he destroyed the farm system as well. Without doing any research I’m pretty sure outside of Diaz all of the top prospects the Mariners had when he took over were either traded or in Petersen’s case released.

His entire track record is why I think, IMO, most fans don’t trust him. He had a blank checkbook for FA, trades, scouts etc plus a guy who is on pace to be in the conversation for GOAT and he missed on his FA’s and the Angels farm system was just as bad as the Mariners. It’s like hiring a Carpenter to do the plumbing in your house. There is the possibility that he could do a good job but the odds are he is going to do a crappy job and you have to replace him and start all over.

 

[Duders]

I agree with your assessment. Your analogy of the carpenter and plumber is spot on IMO. He's done the same thing that he did with the Angel's farm. I'd love to be wrong but I just don't see JD coming through on what he apparently sold ownership on. Things looked possible for post season when ownership gave him the extension. I've said it before, his choice of Scott Servais for Manager (and continued with him) told me all I needed to know about Jerry Dipoto's GM abilities. I think he's just been throwing "shtuff" at the wall and hoping sometime something will stick.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I use to have money and a career, but now I am nearly homeless. On the bright side, I can call it a life rebuild right?

****This was a joke****

Hopefully your rebuild will go quicker than the Mariners lol.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Really only the Paxton trade was one that I was disappointed in the return. I know in the Mets deal he really wanted McNeil which I had never heard of but now understand why he wanted him. I will give Jerry massive props for this past offseason. I just think anyone who is stoked about it should also have perspective of he destroyed the farm system as well. Without doing any research I’m pretty sure outside of Diaz all of the top prospects the Mariners had when he took over were either traded or in Petersen’s case released.

His entire track record is why I think, IMO, most fans don’t trust him. He had a blank checkbook for FA, trades, scouts etc plus a guy who is on pace to be in the conversation for GOAT and he missed on his FA’s and the Angels farm system was just as bad as the Mariners. It’s like hiring a Carpenter to do the plumbing in your house. There is the possibility that he could do a good job but the odds are he is going to do a crappy job and you have to replace him and start all over.

The initial reports indicated that McNeil was part of the deal but Mets fans lost their shit on social media and he was pulled. I can't recall the article where I read this, but the journalist attributed McNeil being pulled due to the fan backlash over the rumor.

My biggest concern about this entire process, which you briefly mentioned is that once/if the Mariners are on the cusp of playoff contention, he'll get trade happy and gut the farm system and sign a bunch of overpriced free agents. This organization has done that so many times in the last 15 years that I wouldn't be surprised it happens again.

 

[wazzu31]

The initial reports indicated that McNeil was part of the deal but Mets fans lost their shit on social media and he was pulled. I can't recall the article where I read this, but the journalist attributed McNeil being pulled due to the fan backlash over the rumor.

My biggest concern about this entire process, which you briefly mentioned is that once/if the Mariners are on the cusp of playoff contention, he'll get trade happy and gut the farm system and sign a bunch of overpriced free agents. This organization has done that so many times in the last 15 years that I wouldn't be surprised it happens again.

Well shit, we all know how much of a complete douchebag Jerry acted like when there was a ton of backlash that he dealt Tyler O’Neill for Marco when Marco could’ve been had for a bag of balls. Must be nice that what fans want is part of the consciences of the organization.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Well shit, we all know how much of a complete douchebag Jerry acted like when there was a ton of backlash that he dealt Tyler O’Neill for Marco when Marco could’ve been had for a bag of balls. Must be nice that what fans want is part of the consciences of the organization.

Unfortunately two things that the Mets have that we don't are fans that actually care about the organization and a vicious media who will tear anyone a new asshole.