This is for Shark

[j_y19]

polo and Compton are upgrades?

Could be, we've never seen them. Most OL take 3 years to develop. Based on your view of Polumbus, Compton has to be an upgrade, right? I mean you are willing to risk the entire draft to find any replacement you can for the guy. He has to be the worst in the league, right?

 

[deanpet21]

Compton is not good enough to beat out polo so how could he be an upgrade. Polo has started for us for 2 years and you say we haven't seen enough of him? 3 years to develop, no way. That's for rookies not vets. What do you mean risk the entire draft?

 

[j_y19]

I was referring to our 3rd year guys, compton, gettis, ribeye and hurt.

When you don't have a first and you blow your second pick on a reach that doesn't pan out, you have effectively gutted your draft as most starters come from R1 and R2.

 

[Sharkinva]

Compton is not good enough to beat out polo so how could he be an upgrade. Polo has started for us for 2 years and you say we haven't seen enough of him? 3 years to develop, no way. That's for rookies not vets. What do you mean risk the entire draft?

Compton has been here two years. This year coming up will make his 3rd year. We took him in the 6th round, and basically dont know if he is an upgrade or not. But we also dont lknow if a rookie taken at 34 is an upgrade or not. What we do know is that if we draft an OT at 34 he will likely start upgrade or not. BUt I guess the shotgun approach works just as well. If we throw enough draft picks at the position we have got to find a starter eventually. Its only taken the last 20 years and I dont even want to think of how many draft picks to find a QB that 95% of the fanbase can accept using this method after all.

 

[deanpet21]

Give me names that you think should be targeted at 34 besides olineman. I know you like WR's shark. Speaking of reach. How about last year Amerson over Swearinger.

 

[Sharkinva]

Give me names that you think should be targeted at 34 besides olineman. I know you like WR's shark. Speaking of reach. How about last year Amerson over Swearinger.

Aside from the WRs I have mentioned, I would be ok with Shazier or Van Noy, like Benjamin I would think they would be slide candidates. As in, they have to slide to be there for us.

IM iffy on Ward. He passes the eye test, but he is all over the place on most mocks same with most of the OTs you mentioned actually.

Again most of the guys I would mention are guys expected to go in the first that MIGHT fall to us. If we are speaking strictly as the 34th pick and there is no better talent, Im fine with Moses.

As for last year, I know you had a mancrush on Swearinger.. but I was very pleased with the pick e did make. So for me it was not a reach.

 

[deanpet21]

van Noy is a projected first round pick? I don't know about that. I agree with you on Shaizer. This Attaochu guy is getting a lot of buzz and I think he would be the OLb if we took one at 34.

 

[Sharkinva]

van Noy is a projected first round pick? I don't know about that. I agree with you on Shaizer. This Attaochu guy is getting a lot of buzz and I think he would be the OLb if we took one at 34.

Van Noy has been creeping up boards. Not a sure fire day one, but I think we will hear more about him as the draft draws closer.

Bottom line is at 34 I think we should be getting an 80/20 type of prospect period.

Thats a guy who about 80% of the planet only gave a 20% chance of not being picked in the first round. NOw obviously if the guy is a complete no fit, we trade the pick, if say Derek Carr is there and some one offeres to move up. BUt I think your guys who are considered by most as 2nd rounders but solid fits should be the fall back, not the primary targets. Most of the O-line you have mentioned are 50/50s to me. As in half the people think there is a 50% chance they will be picked in the first round, and the other half have them as solid 2nd rounders.

 

[Sharkinva]

Also remember.. IM not dead set that this player taken at 34 has to or NEEDs to be a day one starter at any position. SO Im fine if its a depth player expected to contribute but not necessarily start this year.

 

[skinz2winz]

Then you are not really hoping for the BPA, you are hoping the BPA is an o-lineman. get past the knee jerk reaction and realize that an O-line that has produced top ten in rushing the past two seasons is not nearly as bad as people want to make it out to be. Hell even Keim admits that while the team might want to upgrade at RT, its rather silly to just go all in on O-line if there is better talent available at #34. He also points out that Polumbus was NOT the problem on our o-line last year. I think its over reaction and being over defensive of Griffin. As i said, IF RT is the best player on the board at 34, take him. But Im not sold that that will be the case.

You have mistaken what I wrote or maybe I wasn't clear. I want BPA at #34. That will likely NOT be an OL. On a side note, whether it be this year or next, I want an upgrade for Chester & Polumbus. I put about as much stock into what Keim says about the skins as much as what every posters opinion is on this board.

 

[Sharkinva]

You have mistaken what I wrote or maybe I wasn't clear. I want BPA at #34. That will likely NOT be an OL. On a side note, whether it be this year or next, I want an upgrade for Chester & Polumbus. I put about as much stock into what Keim says about the skins as much as what every posters opinion is on this board.

I do agree, there needs to be an upgrade. However, the problem I see is trying to force an entire line upgrade in one fell swoop. O-line more than any other unit needs some kind of familiarity. And dropping in three new starters and moving Litch over, or god forbid four new starters runs a big time risk of doing just what you all fear.. .getting Griffin smeared. Think if it like this, Say we open with an NFCEast team and we have two rookies on the right side of the line, a new center (Litch or McGlynn) and a new RG which we know is a done deal.... If you are the DC we play against... whats your game plan?? Mine is straight up kill the QB. I have a line that has only been together 3 months with four new parts.

So as much as we all do want better performance from the O-line... IM just not sold that four new moving parts in a new offense is the best answer.

 

[skinsdad62]

You defend him as if he were above reproach. Questioning or doubting him in any way makes one not a Redskins fan in your opinion apparently. So are you telling me he is capable of reading defenses consistently?? He generally makes quick decisions and doesnt have a tendency to hold onto the ball to long?? YOU are right, I got it all wrong. The real problem is that the O-line isnt capable of holding a block for nine seconds on a consistent basis. Thanks for correcting me on that.

As i have said all along, if RT is fact the best player available, then fine take him. But I think in desperation to deflect ALL blame from 3sus, many of you are making the line out to be much worse than it ever was.

you get the defending RG3 like he is romo stuff because of what you say

3sus , RGme the annointed one . those arent things you say when you are attacking his play on the field . those are attacking his character . same with diva blah blah blah

it is obvious by what you say , how you say it and the general attitude is you are holding him personally accountable for a trade he never made .

your foolish expectations of 2 superbowls in 5 years is ludicrous as the great peyton manning only has one in his hole career

he had a great 1st year then he got hurt . he wasnt right all last season because of it but you are mad at him for trying to do what he can to win

shanny decided to start him week one or if you like the organization did . they had ultimate say he has been mishandled since he 1st got hurt

and when people call you out and say you are being way to unfair you believe that we are all on tony romo brain washed fluid

if you expect a young player with 1 years experience under his belt to read defenses consistently then your expectation is foolhardy because NO ONE HAS or will they do to the complex nature of the professional game

it doesnt matter how much we "paid " for him he is still 23/24 . he will say things he shouldnt , he will do things he shouldnt . but because we gave up 2 1st rounders and a 2nd doesnt mean he gets a case of insta-knowledge nor should that be anyone's realistic expectations

of course everyone is going to rush to his defense because your expectation are quite simply hate filled foolishness

last year he struggled . that should have been easily expected considering the extent of his injuries but for some reason you dont get it . he wasnt AP so that is a crime ? he said he was all in for week one , what was he supposed to say "see ya in 14 "

shanny , allen , snyder are all twice his age . they all had the knowledge and power to change it but they didnt

take a hard look at what you portray to people on this board before whining about the tony romo intense defenders because you invite that shit right in

the trade could turn into a bust , but i have said lets simply trade Rg3 if you think he isnt the answer but you are mum about it

after 2 years i dont know how you give up on a guy with his numbers but you have by written word and deed

i agree , dont reach for an o/lineman . we can do ok with polumbus for one more year if you feel he deserves it . we wont fix all of our needs in one year but we should try to get the most done that we can

 

[Sharkinva]

And THAT right there is what I mean. You question his play or his motives, you get a litany of basically defending him as if he were Jesus being persecuted. So I just call it what it is, 3sus. Anytime some one questions his play, what he said or did and you write a book on how we are so misinformed and have such unrealistic expectations. The funny part is you did the same sorts of things in defense of Jason Campbell. So what exactly should expectations be Skinsdad. Please enlighten us yet again as to what we are supposed to expect from a guy we gave up four draft picks to get?? IM sure you will explain for the umpteenth time how we need to lower our expectations and give him MORE resources and time.

 

[gkekoa]

Give me names that you think should be targeted at 34 besides olineman. I know you like WR's shark. Speaking of reach. How about last year Amerson over Swearinger.

Amerson wasn't a reach over Swearinger. This is what I find hilarious. Swearinger was listed above Amerson on a handful of sites but not by much. Amerson was a first round talent if you go back to the previous year. When you are ranking players, you also look at upside. It's not like teams drafting behind Washington ran up to the podium saying Swearinger is the man...he went several picks after Amerson.


Guys that should be targeted at 34, Tuitt, Hageman, Moses, Benjamin, Shazier, Mosely or a number of other guys that could slide come draft day.

 

[gkekoa]

RG3 was the number 2 pick in the NFL draft. We should expect him to progress each season with some setbacks as teams adjust to him. Things he cannot control, we should not hold against him.


I don't hold the injury against him at all. When I say his issues mechanically were mental last season, it isn't about his intelligence...it's about his humanity. It is human nature to worry about your leg and not finish throws or short step with guys at your legs because you are adjusting. I do not hold that against him and I am pretty sure Shark isn't either.


We get persecuted for questioning things that are in his control. We question his playbook study because several times last season he threw to the wrong location on a timing pattern because the WR did an IN and RG3 thought it should have been an out. That is an example of RG3 not knowing the playbook well enough and thus means he did not study enough.


Film study is also something we question RG3 about. A large number of sacks he took last season were on the blitz. Film study would allow him to see tendencies here and learn to use the hot read. This isn't on RG3 alone though...it also falls on the center, Montgomery, who is gone. Those are the two players responsible for blocking assignments.


Can Shark and I say definitively that he didn't study enough? No. Can you say he did? No. All we can do is go by the evidence on the field and make a conclusion.


Oh, and Shark got it right. DAD you defended JC until the day he left and even after. I defended him longer than I should have as well.

 

[j_y19]

RG3 was the number 2 pick in the NFL draft. We should expect him to progress each season with some setbacks as teams adjust to him. Things he cannot control, we should not hold against him.


I don't hold the injury against him at all. When I say his issues mechanically were mental last season, it isn't about his intelligence...it's about his humanity. It is human nature to worry about your leg and not finish throws or short step with guys at your legs because you are adjusting. I do not hold that against him and I am pretty sure Shark isn't either.


We get persecuted for questioning things that are in his control. We question his playbook study because several times last season he threw to the wrong location on a timing pattern because the WR did an IN and RG3 thought it should have been an out. That is an example of RG3 not knowing the playbook well enough and thus means he did not study enough.


Film study is also something we question RG3 about. A large number of sacks he took last season were on the blitz. Film study would allow him to see tendencies here and learn to use the hot read. This isn't on RG3 alone though...it also falls on the center, Montgomery, who is gone. Those are the two players responsible for blocking assignments.


Can Shark and I say definitively that he didn't study enough? No. Can you say he did? No. All we can do is go by the evidence on the field and make a conclusion.


Oh, and Shark got it right. DAD you defended JC until the day he left and even after. I defended him longer than I should have as well.

This is a fair analysis. Don't know that I agree with 100% of it but its generally accurate, IMO.

 

[skinsdad62]

And THAT right there is what I mean. You question his play or his motives, you get a litany of basically defending him as if he were Jesus being persecuted. So I just call it what it is, 3sus. Anytime some one questions his play, what he said or did and you write a book on how we are so misinformed and have such unrealistic expectations. The funny part is you did the same sorts of things in defense of Jason Campbell. So what exactly should expectations be Skinsdad. Please enlighten us yet again as to what we are supposed to expect from a guy we gave up four draft picks to get?? IM sure you will explain for the umpteenth time how we need to lower our expectations and give him MORE resources and time.

calling him 3sus isnt questioning his play shark ? it is an attack

questioning his play could be something like this , his durability is in question . he isnt good at reading defenses he holds the ball too long . that is questioning his play


calling him names is i write a book about his character because its based on speculatiion and not fact . he had diner with snyder so he has to undercut shanny his dad hires coaches . he is selfish because he made an ad. . he throws people under buses because he compliments an opposing defense because it takes that long to make the point


and god forbid if someone thinks you are wrong and challenges you without being thought of as being a homer

JC and Rg3 are 2 different debates . one couldnt carry a team and was avg . i advocated building the LOS and stop gapping JC that isnt a mancrush , that was a way to go . you wanted to gut 2 drafts to get bradford or sanchez

so what are my expectations for a guy we gave up 3 fucking picks for ? ( we swapped 1st rounders hence will still had the pick )

i expect that he should be an immediate starter . he should push a pro bowl ( he made one ) he should compete for rookie of the year (he won ) he should be close to having an elite potential ( he set numerous rookie records both nfl and team )

he should be a player that can have us competing for superbowl and playoff appearances year in and out . he should be in the top 10% of his position throughout his career and be in the conversation for the HOF

the monkey wrench in all this was the injury . it set him and the team back but i dont think he should be written off after only 2 seasons . imagine what would have happened to many an HOF qb if they got written off after 2 years , where would farve be , aikman , rodgers , bradshaw manning (either one ) elway

what i cant do is guarantee the future . i can say Rg3 wont get injured out and his career goes the way of greg cook what i can say is it is way too early to be this harsh on the guy

peyton manning is probably a top 3 qb in history . he has just 1 superbowl . is he a bust ? he has been paid numerous millions of dollars in his career . (perhaps well over 100 mil ) was he worth it ?

 

[Sharkinva]

Skinsdad...

1. Calling him 3sus, RGme and the anointed one has zero to do with his play. It has everything to do with the undieing defense of his character which you in particular and many others have basically deemed as being above reproach. As i said, you defend ANY questioning of his character or his game as if some one offended your child or your god. Personally I have found that NO ONE is above reproach.

So yes challenging any one who questions his character or if he was infact worth the trade is a homer move. Plain and simple.

As far as JC goes, you defended him to the point of insanity and made basically the same excuses for him. Any one that was around at that time can pretty much attest to this. the only difference here is that Griffin came with much higher stakes AND much higher expectations. As for Bradford and Sanchez, yes I would have made the trade for them, because I thought either COULD be a prototype franchise QB. I still wonder if Griffin will ever be more than a better version of Vick. Very exciting option QB who you wonder every game if this will be the one he gets put out for the season. Thats because the only style of play he has ever excelled at is an option based spread offense. I guess the next two years will tell us if he can move beyond that or not.

We traded three extra picks, plus used the swapped pick to draft him. 1+3=4, they went over that in elementary school dude. OK that was condescending of me.. but really man.. the whole we gave up three picks for him case is nothing more than an attempt to make the trade seem less like the forcible Sodomy it has the potential to become.

he should be a player that can have us competing for superbowl and playoff appearances year in and out . he should be in the top 10% of his position throughout his career and be in the conversation for the HOF

the monkey wrench in all this was the injury . it set him and the team back but i dont think he should be written off after only 2 seasons . imagine what would have happened to many an HOF qb if they got written off after 2 years , where would farve be , aikman , rodgers , bradshaw manning (either one ) elway

this I actually agree upon. And while you really push to say I have given up on him, I actually havent. I simply refuse to lower my standards or expectations of what it will take over all to make him worth what we gave up. So yes I do think for the trade to have been worth it, we need to win or at the least appear in two Super Bowls with him as QB. I do think if all he ever amounts to is a guy like Romo, we got raped.


Bottom line is, the more you give up to get a guy, the more you should expect from that guy. Is Peyton a bust?? Hardly. But Peyton IS a franchise QB. At the moment RG3 is not, he has the potential to be one. I freely admit that. But currently he is a guy who could go either way.

 

[skinsdad62]

Skinsdad...

1. Calling him 3sus, RGme and the anointed one has zero to do with his play. It has everything to do with the undieing defense of his character which you in particular and many others have basically deemed as being above reproach. As i said, you defend ANY questioning of his character or his game as if some one offended your child or your god. Personally I have found that NO ONE is above reproach.

So yes challenging any one who questions his character or if he was infact worth the trade is a homer move. Plain and simple.

As far as JC goes, you defended him to the point of insanity and made basically the same excuses for him. Any one that was around at that time can pretty much attest to this. the only difference here is that Griffin came with much higher stakes AND much higher expectations. As for Bradford and Sanchez, yes I would have made the trade for them, because I thought either COULD be a prototype franchise QB. I still wonder if Griffin will ever be more than a better version of Vick. Very exciting option QB who you wonder every game if this will be the one he gets put out for the season. Thats because the only style of play he has ever excelled at is an option based spread offense. I guess the next two years will tell us if he can move beyond that or not.

We traded three extra picks, plus used the swapped pick to draft him. 1+3=4, they went over that in elementary school dude. OK that was condescending of me.. but really man.. the whole we gave up three picks for him case is nothing more than an attempt to make the trade seem less like the forcible Sodomy it has the potential to become.



this I actually agree upon. And while you really push to say I have given up on him, I actually havent. I simply refuse to lower my standards or expectations of what it will take over all to make him worth what we gave up. So yes I do think for the trade to have been worth it, we need to win or at the least appear in two Super Bowls with him as QB. I do think if all he ever amounts to is a guy like Romo, we got raped.


Bottom line is, the more you give up to get a guy, the more you should expect from that guy. Is Peyton a bust?? Hardly. But Peyton IS a franchise QB. At the moment RG3 is not, he has the potential to be one. I freely admit that. But currently he is a guy who could go either way.

shark , we swapped picks with the rams we had the 6th overall and we got the 2nd over all those 2 cancel each other out because we paid 3 extra picks for him 1-1=0 +3 =3

the net is we paid 3

as for JC i did defend him AS AN AVG QB and if we had an AVG qb we needed to put good pieces around him to win just like dilfer had . but that gets lost with you and others

i said we should stop gap him when shanny took over . we didnt we traded for DMAC i would have rather had the picks

a far as my unending defending of his character well i say this . speculations about what is said in private conversations is just that speculation . it isnt fact

anonymous sources arent reliable sources ? why ? because if they cant say the truth then then dont have the conviction or they are afraid of retribution

if they are afraid of retribution then why are the silent now . ? the boss is gone

the players actions speak to the fact he is a decent human being . they dont vote him team cpt. or vote him for courage awards if they dont like him . no one was voting ryan lief for courage awards or team cpt

now perhaps they dont like him and cant say it out of fear . ok then but they certainly dont have to go the extra mile and make him team cpt or commend his courage

sure i can see how his comments after the eagles game could be taken the wrong way . especially if you are looking for something but i go back to a 23 yr old being a 23 yr old . being savvy isnt quite there yet

nfl qbs are divas , Rg3 has been spoiled since he put on ANY athletic uniform . sure perhaps he shouldnt have signed with addidas or nike or subway . but the fact is he wasnt the 1st young guy to do it and he wont be the last s we see in manziel

i wont blame a guy to get as much money as he can on the side . everyone does it even you and i

my beef has been and always has been absolutes without real facts i cant tell you he wasnt plotting with snyder anymore then you can tell me he was

i deal in facts and what can be proven . i dont count speculation as fact

i have 2 posters telling me things they are speculating about and calling it fact . one says RG3 said something to shea and the other disputes the raw numbers on a supposed gimmick offense but has no data just his eyeball

i believe a qb should get 3-4 yrs to see what he has BEFORE i say time to move on

and lets face it you fight as hard as you can for your point of view but when i fight as hard as i can i am somehow a blind homer you could be just a negative nancy

how about we call it hard debate and quit the labels ?

 

[Sharkinva]

Skinsdad...


FAct is we USED the pick to get him. So in total he COST the Redskins 4 picks. No way around that.

Im over the Campbell thing, just pointing out that you defended him and his character and flaws just as vehemently.

I have never questioned rumor and speculation in regard to his character. Only what he ACTUALLY did and said. Which to me raised red flags about his character. Even a retard would know that when asked what went wrong, you dont answer "well it seemed like they knew exactly what we were doing". thats directly throwing your entire coaching staff under the bus. When asked, what happened on an INT, you dont say well my WRs couldnt get open. Again deflecting blame. For some one so smart, the simple answer is, Let me look at the tape, see what went wrong, and get back to you.

I could care less how much Money he makes on the side, and if he and Becky came out with an RG3 **** tape... I would be fine with him doing him. What I do care about is words and deeds that negatively affect the team. And like as not, he did have both last year. Being a generally decent person does not perclude one from having a personal agenda. And I find it hard to believe that some one known as being so smart had no idea of the impact of his words and actions last year.

I to believe he should get his full rookie contract to prove his worth in regards to the trade. But I dont hold him above reproach and take offense that my fanhood and intelligence have been called into question simply because I dont hold him above reproach.