This conference champion getting an automatic bid

[Stakesarehigh]

FSU was rightly left out of the playoffs last year.

 

[Ron G]

How soon they forget. Last year Florida State did get stiffed. As often happened under the 4 team playoff, there were more than 4 teams that deserved to be in the playoffs and Florida State was one of them. But Georgia DID suffer the same fate, they didn't get in the playoffs either. In fact, they played Florida State in the Orange Bowl. Georgia looked at the game as an opportunity to prove they deserved to be in the playoffs. Florida State sulked about it and got beaten 63-3. Florida State still hasn't recovered. They were 13-0 prior to not getting in, 2-11 since.


SEC teams play a 12 game regular season, just like everyone else.

Florida State (2024 is not 2023). Indiana is 2024 not 1900 to 2023. They have 22 transfers. Indiana history is irrelevant this year.

I don't count FCS games, whether for SEC teams or any other P4 team. Notre Dame (to its everlasting embarrassment did play an FCS team last year). Now granted, they should not have lost to Northern Illinois (if the QB took a sack or just threw the ball away, NIU would have been at their own 20, (at best), with less than 40 seconds (less than 10 seconds with a sack) but he did not, and they ended up with the ball midfield with 50 seconds. But at least NIU is a MAC team. If instead, ND played an FCS team and won 60 to 10 they would be ranked #2 right now with the #5 seed.

 

[tc1]

Real question is why do you care?

I care for the same reason anyone here cares, we are entertained by college football. And I think there's a decent chance this season might leave another stinking mess in the CFP Committee's lap, and force yet another redesign of the system. In the first season of the "new system to end all systems", that's not very good.

Winner of the CFP is the champ.

No, that's not correct. There are twelve current national championship selectors recognized by the NCAA, and they do not always agree.

Agree records would be tough to use and with so many teams hard to find any perfect system (hell, even with 32 for the NFL it's not perfect).

Some of what I do professionally is system design, and it is an interesting problem. How to select one undisputed champion from 134 teams who only play a dozen or so games? Contrasted with, say, the NBA, which has 31 teams that play 82 games plus up to 28 playoff games, where every team plays multiple games against every other team.

I guess maybe if your scenario happens Oregon is free to hang a banner somewhere as the resume champ?

It's been done before. UCF claims their title from 2017. Not sure if they actually hung a banner.

Curious, though.....if, say, OSU beat Oregon after beating TN and went on to beat a couple other tough teams to win it all would Oregon really have a better resume simply because they had 1 fewer loss? And what if ND won it all and beat Oregon along the way?

A fair question. Tennessee is highly-rated -- but largely only because they are in the SEC. Their actual games are not that impressive. I don't think that's a better win than Oregon over Penn State, and maybe not even over Boise State. I will say that if OSU were to beat Georgia in the final game, they would have a very strong case versus a 13-1 Oregon squad. So that's maybe two of the eleven other teams that can potentially put together a championship-caliber resume.

Notre Dame, I don't think is in that group -- especially not if Oregon finishes 15-1. Even if the Irish ran the table, their resume would not be superior to Oregon's -- and they'd have the worst loss of any champion in a long time.

There are still an infinite number of possibilities that could occur -- Clemson could stomp everyone 50-0 from here out -- but I think the vast majority of those scenarios result in Oregon having the best resume. It would be a shame if that goes unrecognized.

 

[Ron G]

FSU was rightly left out of the playoffs last year.

Stop!

 

[dtgold88]

I care for the same reason anyone here cares, we are entertained by college football. And I think there's a decent chance this season might leave another stinking mess in the CFP Committee's lap, and force yet another redesign of the system. In the first season of the "new system to end all systems", that's not very good.



No, that's not correct. There are twelve current national championship selectors recognized by the NCAA, and they do not always agree.



Some of what I do professionally is system design, and it is an interesting problem. How to select one undisputed champion from 134 teams who only play a dozen or so games? Contrasted with, say, the NBA, which has 31 teams that play 82 games plus up to 28 playoff games, where every team plays multiple games against every other team.



It's been done before. UCF claims their title from 2017. Not sure if they actually hung a banner.



A fair question. Tennessee is highly-rated -- but largely only because they are in the SEC. Their actual games are not that impressive. I don't think that's a better win than Oregon over Penn State, and maybe not even over Boise State. I will say that if OSU were to beat Georgia in the final game, they would have a very strong case versus a 13-1 Oregon squad. So that's maybe two of the eleven other teams that can potentially put together a championship-caliber resume.

Notre Dame, I don't think is in that group -- especially not if Oregon finishes 15-1. Even if the Irish ran the table, their resume would not be superior to Oregon's -- and they'd have the worst loss of any champion in a long time.

There are still an infinite number of possibilities that could occur -- Clemson could stomp everyone 50-0 from here out -- but I think the vast majority of those scenarios result in Oregon having the best resume. It would be a shame if that goes unrecognized.

I doubt many (hell, may just be you) would see it as a mess if someone other than Oregon wins it all and is crowned the champ.

OK......but still doubt many fans or even those still voting do not understand whoever wins the CFP is the champ. But if Oregon should disagree under those circumstances by all means raise a banner and have a parade as the resume champ.
Yes, I get it, CFB different than the pro sports as more teams.....but realistically, many of those 134 know they have no shot nor should they.

Cool....let Oregon claim their fake title if they want should that happen.

OSU for sure could claim a stronger resume in that situation, among a few others. Hell, it's fair to say nearly anyone who ran the gauntlet could make a stronger case than Oregon, especially if Oregon lost in their first game.

A shame for whom? Would think most get where we are in CFB now. But again by all means recognize what would be a fake title however they want if it makes them happy.

 

[Ron G]

I care for the same reason anyone here cares, we are entertained by college football. And I think there's a decent chance this season might leave another stinking mess in the CFP Committee's lap, and force yet another redesign of the system. In the first season of the "new system to end all systems", that's not very good.



No, that's not correct. There are twelve current national championship selectors recognized by the NCAA, and they do not always agree.



Some of what I do professionally is system design, and it is an interesting problem. How to select one undisputed champion from 134 teams who only play a dozen or so games? Contrasted with, say, the NBA, which has 31 teams that play 82 games plus up to 28 playoff games, where every team plays multiple games against every other team.



It's been done before. UCF claims their title from 2017. Not sure if they actually hung a banner.



A fair question. Tennessee is highly-rated -- but largely only because they are in the SEC. Their actual games are not that impressive. I don't think that's a better win than Oregon over Penn State, and maybe not even over Boise State. I will say that if OSU were to beat Georgia in the final game, they would have a very strong case versus a 13-1 Oregon squad. So that's maybe two of the eleven other teams that can potentially put together a championship-caliber resume.

Notre Dame, I don't think is in that group -- especially not if Oregon finishes 15-1. Even if the Irish ran the table, their resume would not be superior to Oregon's -- and they'd have the worst loss of any champion in a long time.

There are still an infinite number of possibilities that could occur -- Clemson could stomp everyone 50-0 from here out -- but I think the vast majority of those scenarios result in Oregon having the best resume. It would be a shame if that goes unrecognized.

As I wrote earlier, what if that one Oregon loss is to ND and ND has a Georgia win on its record?

 

[tc1]

Reading two of your posts I do agree on some things. The idea that Florida State got stiffed is true. Would Georgia (if not the conference winner) have suffered the same fate, I think not (SEC you know).

And it's not just that Florida State was shafted. The Committee got very lucky that FSU players declined to make them look bad by beating Georgia -- not that they definitely would have, but their full roster had a good chance. FSU's second and third string did about as well against Georgia as #20 Kentucky and #9 Mississippi did with their full rosters.

So how would Notre Dame's resume compare in your eyes if they are the one to beat Oregon? Your said anyone (other than Georgia) ignoring that if ND were to beat Oregon they would also have a Geogia win on their resume.

Rather than repeat, please see my preceding post where I just offered my opinion on that.

But as I have said before, using the concept that SOS schedule will be the criteria for selection then there needs to more divisions and no game between those divisions. Or teams should be informed UPFRONT that they have no chance to get in regardless of their record. Case in point is that Indiana, Boise State, SMU would be eliminated at the start of the season. And yet, the NCAA and TV treat them all as Division 1 teams.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. Because, among other reasons, those P4 teams did not play schedules that were all that much weaker, if any, than most SEC teams played, or really anyone else. Tennessee, for example, played a horrific schedule that included six of the seven worst teams in the SEC -- and they lost to one, and struggled against four. And those bad SEC teams lost to, as I previously noted a few days ago -- Georgia State (at home), Toledo (by 24, at home), Louisville (by 24, at home), California ( at home ), and Oklahoma State ( the 2nd worst team in the entire P4.2 ).

The bottom-half of the SEC is just flat bad -- and yet, those teams are, as often as not, competitive with the good SEC teams. This is a problem for those who are assuming that the SEC is in any way, shape, or form a superior conference -- which you might not be explicitly saying, but your position regarding those teams from the ACC and Big Ten certainly seems to indicate.

 

[Ron G]

I doubt many (hell, may just be you) would see it as a mess if someone other than Oregon wins it all and is crowned the champ.

OK......but still doubt many fans or even those still voting do not understand whoever wins the CFP is the champ. But if Oregon should disagree under those circumstances by all means raise a banner and have a parade as the resume champ.
Yes, I get it, CFB different than the pro sports as more teams.....but realistically, many of those 134 know they have no shot nor should they.

Cool....let Oregon claim their fake title if they want should that happen.

OSU for sure could claim a stronger resume in that situation, among a few others. Hell, it's fair to say nearly anyone who ran the gauntlet could make a stronger case than Oregon, especially if Oregon lost in their first game.

A shame for whom? Would think most get where we are in CFB now. But again by all means recognize what would be a fake title however they want if it makes them happy.

I agree with 99% of what you are saying. The 1% is the "nor should they" comment. That is valid only if they are eliminated from Division 1 and are not referred to as an FBS team.

 

[dtgold88]

I agree with 99% of what you are saying. The 1% is the "nor should they" comment. That is valid only if they are eliminated from Division 1 and are not referred to as an FBS team.

Good point and could have worded better.

 

[tc1]

How soon they forget. Last year Florida State did get stiffed. As often happened under the 4 team playoff, there were more than 4 teams that deserved to be in the playoffs and Florida State was one of them. But Georgia DID suffer the same fate, they didn't get in the playoffs either.

Georgia was very much not subject the same fate. Florida State was the undefeated champion of a P5 conference. Georgia was not undefeated, and was not champion of anything -- okay, they narrowly beat Tech, so I suppose they were champions of their state.

As the previous poster observed, there is no possibility that an undefeated, conference-champion Georgia team would have missed the playoff entirely.

In fact, they played Florida State in the Orange Bowl. Georgia looked at the game as an opportunity to prove they deserved to be in the playoffs. Florida State sulked about it and got beaten 63-3. Florida State still hasn't recovered. They were 13-0 prior to not getting in, 2-11 since.

Florida State players boycotted that game en masse, leaving only their second and third stringers to play the Orange Bowl. Despite that, they did only slightly worse against Georgia than #20 Kentucky and #9 Mississippi did with their entire rosters a few months earlier.

This season may, or may not be related, but if it is, that'd be a natural reaction to realizing that you are playing a game which is rigged against you. Even non-human animals will refuse to play a game that they recognize is unfair.

 

[dtgold88]

Georgia was very much not subject the same fate. Florida State was the undefeated champion of a P5 conference. Georgia was not undefeated, and was not champion of anything -- okay, they narrowly beat Tech, so I suppose they were champions of their state.

As the previous poster observed, there is no possibility that an undefeated, conference-champion Georgia team would have missed the playoff entirely.



Florida State players boycotted that game en masse, leaving only their second and third stringers to play the Orange Bowl. Despite that, they did only slightly worse against Georgia than #20 Kentucky and #9 Mississippi did with their entire rosters a few months earlier.

This season may, or may not be related, but if it is, that'd be a natural reaction to realizing that you are playing a game which is rigged against you. Even non-human animals will refuse to play a game that they recognize is unfair.

agree with most of what you said here but to your last comment who is it rigged against this season? 12 teams got a shot and seems you are just precomplaining maybe a team will not do what is needed but still deserves recognition?

 

[Nat Mann]

Georgia was very much not subject the same fate. Florida State was the undefeated champion of a P5 conference. Georgia was not undefeated, and was not champion of anything -- okay, they narrowly beat Tech, so I suppose they were champions of their state.

As the previous poster observed, there is no possibility that an undefeated, conference-champion Georgia team would have missed the playoff entirely.

Florida State deserved to be in the playoffs last year. Yes, Georgia had one loss, to Alabama, but they too deserved to be in the playoff. Neither got in. They were both suffered the same fate, it's their reactions that were different.

Florida State players boycotted that game en masse, leaving only their second and third stringers to play the Orange Bowl. Despite that, they did only slightly worse against Georgia than #20 Kentucky and #9 Mississippi did with their entire rosters a few months earlier.

As I said, Georgia came to prove that they deserved to be in the playoffs and the Florida State players sulked. The 63-3 score shows the difference, your hair-splitting excuses notwithstanding.

 

[tc1]

As I wrote earlier, what if that one Oregon loss is to ND and ND has a Georgia win on its record?

In this scenario -- Oregon losing the final game to ND -- both teams finish 15-1. Oregon would have one outstanding loss. ND would have the worst loss of any champion in my memory -- someone with more time on their hands can possibly find the last champion with a worse loss.

Comparing notable ( ie, ranked, for lack of a better measure ) wins, Oregon would have beaten: Ohio State, Penn State, Boise State, Illinois, plus either OSU again or Tennessee, and one of Texas or Arizona State.

ND would have wins over: Army, Indiana, Georgia, [ one of SMU | Penn State | Boise State ], and Oregon.

Any of those optional ND wins are already cancelled-out by wins that Oregon already has. Georgia and Ohio State are equivalent. Leaving the remainder unquestionably in Oregon's favor ( Oregon-Army-Indiana vs [Penn|Boise] State-Illinois-[OSU|Tenn]-[Texas|ASU] ). It's not close, at all. The only scenario hat could plausibly change that would be if ND somehow won its remaining games by six touchdowns each.

If someone can spin those resumes in ND's favor, I'd love to see it, just for the entertainment value.

 

[dtgold88]

In this scenario -- Oregon losing the final game to ND -- both teams finish 15-1. Oregon would have one outstanding loss. ND would have the worst loss of any champion in my memory -- someone with more time on their hands can possibly find the last champion with a worse loss.

Comparing notable ( ie, ranked, for lack of a better measure ) wins, Oregon would have beaten: Ohio State, Penn State, Boise State, Illinois, plus either OSU again or Tennessee, and one of Texas or Arizona State.

ND would have wins over: Army, Indiana, Georgia, [ one of SMU | Penn State | Boise State ], and Oregon.

Any of those optional ND wins are already cancelled-out by wins that Oregon already has. Georgia and Ohio State are equivalent. Leaving the remainder unquestionably in Oregon's favor ( Oregon-Army-Indiana vs [Penn|Boise] State-Illinois-[OSU|Tenn]-[Texas|ASU] ). It's not close, at all. The only scenario hat could plausibly change that would be if ND somehow won its remaining games by six touchdowns each.

If someone can spin those resumes in ND's favor, I'd love to see it, just for the entertainment value.

The only scenario? what if ND runs table and Oregon loses to OSU or TN?

 

[tc1]

agree with most of what you said here but to your last comment who is it rigged against this season? 12 teams got a shot and seems you are just precomplaining maybe a team will not do what is needed but still deserves recognition?

I didn't actually say it was rigged this season. But a 15-1 Oregon team with their resume, and no trophy, would have a fair argument. There are not many seasons in history where a team with a resume gap like Oregon has built over their competition did not at least share the championship.

This season will be the first time that a 13-0 team -- who is clearly the class of college football this season -- is being told they need to win 3 more consecutive games in order to be considered champions. 13-0 against the toughest schedule used to be more than sufficient.

 

[tc1]

The only scenario? what if ND runs table and Oregon loses to OSU or TN?

The previous post to which I replied specifically said "Oregon loss to ND".

 

[tc1]

Florida State deserved to be in the playoffs last year. Yes, Georgia had one loss, to Alabama, but they too deserved to be in the playoff. Neither got in. They were both suffered the same fate, it's their reactions that were different.

No, they precisely did not suffer the same fate. Florida State did everything they possibly could. Georgia lost. Those are completely different situations.

As I said, Georgia came to prove that they deserved to be in the playoffs and the Florida State players sulked. The 63-3 score shows the difference, your hair-splitting excuses notwithstanding.

Again, Florida State sent their second and third string to that game, for a variety of reasons. Even those backups proved nearly as good as #20 Kentucky and #9 Mississippi, both of whom played their full rosters against Georgia and experienced a similar result.

 

[Ron G]

In this scenario -- Oregon losing the final game to ND -- both teams finish 15-1. Oregon would have one outstanding loss. ND would have the worst loss of any champion in my memory -- someone with more time on their hands can possibly find the last champion with a worse loss.

Comparing notable ( ie, ranked, for lack of a better measure ) wins, Oregon would have beaten: Ohio State, Penn State, Boise State, Illinois, plus either OSU again or Tennessee, and one of Texas or Arizona State.

ND would have wins over: Army, Indiana, Georgia, [ one of SMU | Penn State | Boise State ], and Oregon.

Any of those optional ND wins are already cancelled-out by wins that Oregon already has. Georgia and Ohio State are equivalent. Leaving the remainder unquestionably in Oregon's favor ( Oregon-Army-Indiana vs [Penn|Boise] State-Illinois-[OSU|Tenn]-[Texas|ASU] ). It's not close, at all. The only scenario hat could plausibly change that would be if ND somehow won its remaining games by six touchdowns each.

If someone can spin those resumes in ND's favor, I'd love to see it, just for the entertainment value.

So am I to assume that if ND beats Oregon, in your world Oregon is still the champion (or just the resume champ)?

 

[dtgold88]

I didn't actually say it was rigged this season. But a 15-1 Oregon team with their resume, and no trophy, would have a fair argument. There are not many seasons in history where a team with a resume gap like Oregon has built over their competition did not at least share the championship.

This season will be the first time that a 13-0 team -- who is clearly the class of college football this season -- is being told they need to win 3 more consecutive games in order to be considered champions. 13-0 against the toughest schedule used to be more than sufficient.

How does your scenario make it rigged?

Yes, it is the first season this has happened....likely because the format has been changed and it's been long overdue. Are you just among the many who have railed for years over a playoff and never wanting one?

if up to you just hand the trophy to Oregon now and be done?

 

[dtgold88]

The previous post to which I replied specifically said "Oregon loss to ND".

Gotcha...my mistake. So you are simply trying to make a case for Oregon losing to ND in the game deemed to determine the champ...but still be the champ. That's much better.