This conference champion getting an automatic bid

[Ron G]

In that scenario, Oregon would almost-certainly take home all of the math-based championships, like Colley Matrix. They would have a vastly better resume, as previously detailed, so unless the game was 50-0 Notre Dame or something, yes, I believe 15-1 Oregon would deserve at least a share of the title.

Otherwise, they would be the only team in history, as far as I know, to win 15 or more games in a season and not win a championship -- and they'd have done it against the toughest schedule by far.

I got to thinking about this particular post of yours. A few years ago, did you make a chase for Gonzaga's basketball team that went undefeated and won 5 tournament games but lost the championship. Do you think they should be sharing the National Championship?

 

[dtgold88]

I got to thinking about this particular post of yours. A few years ago, did you make a chase for Gonzaga's basketball team that went undefeated and won 5 tournament games but lost the championship. Do you think they should be sharing the National Championship?

Probably a number of teams who should have shared titles under his "logic". Hell, likely some individuals, as well, as why not give tennis players shared titles if they have a far tougher route to the Final but lose to someone with an easier path?

 

[uga8766]

This is not "me thinking" that -- again, for the nth time, the NCAA officially recognizes a dozen different championship selectors, and a bunch of them consider the entire season, not just the last game.

If you don't like this, fine -- take your dispute up with the NCAA and/or the owners of those selection mechanisms. But your continued inability to process this information is borderline cognitive dissonance.

The NCAA doesn't "officially recognize" any D1 FBS champion. They keep a list of major selectors in the books, but don't endorse any of them.

 

[tc1]

You keep talking about Florida state from last year as some convoluted excuse for why you want to crown Oregon with the championship even if they lose.

No, I don't keep talking about Florida State -- but a couple other people keep bringing them up, particularly in context of "What the regular season is for".

Look, the NCAA FINALLY changed formats to allow a true playoffs and championship, and you want to now discuss flaws from the older format that they just scrapped as an excuse for ignoring the current one. I think you just like to argue.

No, the NCAA did not change the format. As repeatedly explained, ad nauseum by now, the NCCA has a dozen different official methods of selecting a national champion in the Football Bowl Subdivision, and only one is the Playoff. Also interesting to note that they didn't change the name of the Subdivision. It is not specifically not called the "Football Playoff Subdivision".

 

[tc1]

By the way, math-based championships for teams that did not win a championship of the field are only of interest to the fans of that team.

Take your dispute up with the NCAA -- who recognizes several of those math-based systems as official selectors of the National Champion ( there words, not mine ) and records those titles in their official record book.

You may not like that. In which case, lobby the NCAA to bend to your will. But denying the reality of the situation is Trumpian cognitive dissonance. Much like believing that the US economy is a bad state when unemployment recently hit a 50-year low, the stock market has broken all manner of records, and real wages are higher than they've been in many decades.

If Oregon wins out, they will rank with the best teams of all time, if not they will enter the dust bowl of history with the rest of the also rans. If Oregon loses, ten years from now only the fans of the winner and of Oregon will remember who lost '24-'25 championship.

Again, simply put, no. Oregon is very likely, maybe even assured, of being recorded in the NCAA's official record book as one of the 2024-25 National Champions.

Exactly like one can look up 2016 and find that Alabama won the Colley Matrix national championship that season, despite losing to Clemson in their final game. Again, you may not like that. You may disagree that the NCAA should consider that Tide team a national champion. It may hurt your feelings that there isn't one undisputed champion. But as far as the NCAA is considered, that is the situation. Sorry for your loss.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

No, I don't keep talking about Florida State -- but a couple other people keep bringing them up, particularly in context of "What the regular season is for".



No, the NCAA did not change the format. As repeatedly explained, ad nauseum by now, the NCCA has a dozen different official methods of selecting a national champion in the Football Bowl Subdivision, and only one is the Playoff. Also interesting to note that they didn't change the name of the Subdivision. It is not specifically not called the "Football Playoff Subdivision".

You reek of an alt, I just can't put my finger on whom.

 

[tc1]

I got to thinking about this particular post of yours. A few years ago, did you make a chase for Gonzaga's basketball team that went undefeated and won 5 tournament games but lost the championship. Do you think they should be sharing the National Championship?

No, because there is no precedent in NCAA basketball to award a championship to anyone other than the victor at the Final Four.

This is for very good reasons -- among them, in basketball, every team has a chance to win the title after the regular season concludes. Whatever polls have occurred are completely and utterly meaningless, because every team plays in their conference tourney, and every conference tourney winner plays in the Big Dance. A few teams get a second shot with an at-large bid, but every team can win the title, if they embark on a ~10 game winning streak at the right time.

NCAA football, on the other hand, is a completely different animal for a raft of reasons. I would've thought you'd know this.

 

[dtgold88]

No, I don't keep talking about Florida State -- but a couple other people keep bringing them up, particularly in context of "What the regular season is for".



No, the NCAA did not change the format. As repeatedly explained, ad nauseum by now, the NCCA has a dozen different official methods of selecting a national champion in the Football Bowl Subdivision, and only one is the Playoff. Also interesting to note that they didn't change the name of the Subdivision. It is not specifically not called the "Football Playoff Subdivision".

at this point I just hope you are messing with us. If so, congrats as you had me. If not? Just wow.

 

[dtgold88]

No, because there is no precedent in NCAA basketball to award a championship to anyone other than the victor at the Final Four.

This is for very good reasons -- among them, in basketball, every team has a chance to win the title after the regular season concludes. Whatever polls have occurred are completely and utterly meaningless, because every team plays in their conference tourney, and every conference tourney winner plays in the Big Dance. A few teams get a second shot with an at-large bid, but every team can win the title, if they embark on a ~10 game winning streak at the right time.

NCAA football, on the other hand, is a completely different animal for a raft of reasons. I would've thought you'd know this.

I would have thought you'd know one of those reasons is football not exactly a sport you could have a tourney with every team in each conference after the season as cannot exactly play on consecutive days, let alone 3-4 days in a row. Or are you thinking they should play until February or March?

again, are you being serious with your cries?

 

[Ron G]

No, because there is no precedent in NCAA basketball to award a championship to anyone other than the victor at the Final Four.

This is for very good reasons -- among them, in basketball, every team has a chance to win the title after the regular season concludes. Whatever polls have occurred are completely and utterly meaningless, because every team plays in their conference tourney, and every conference tourney winner plays in the Big Dance. A few teams get a second shot with an at-large bid, but every team can win the title, if they embark on a ~10 game winning streak at the right time.

NCAA football, on the other hand, is a completely different animal for a raft of reasons. I would've thought you'd know this.

But the final point is that nobody cares about the other polls after the playoff is concluded. Just as virtually no one (except the school and the family) can name who won the Best Player, MVP or any other individual award if that person did not win the Heisman Trophy. Who won the Defensive Player of the Year in 2014, (or ','16'17'18'19' etc.)

 

[tc1]

I would have thought you'd know one of those reasons is football not exactly a sport you could have a tourney with every team in each conference after the season as cannot exactly play on consecutive days, let alone 3-4 days in a row. Or are you thinking they should play until February or March?

As I literally just wrote "NCAA football, on the other hand, is a completely different animal for a raft of reasons."

As previously suggested, please read before commenting. If some words are unknown to you, look them up first.

 

[tc1]

But the final point is that nobody cares about the other polls after the playoff is concluded.

For wildly-varying definitions of "nobody". The NCAA cares enough to record those other champions in their record book. It's official: NCAA recognizes UCF's national championship in record book

Just as virtually no one (except the school and the family) can name who won the Best Player, MVP or any other individual award if that person did not win the Heisman Trophy. Who won the Defensive Player of the Year in 2014, (or ','16'17'18'19' etc.)

That's an entirely different can of worms, since those are different awards. We were discussing National Championship teams, which is the same award.

 

[Ron G]

For wildly-varying definitions of "nobody". The NCAA cares enough to record those other champions in their record book. It's official: NCAA recognizes UCF's national championship in record book



That's an entirely different can of worms, since those are different awards. We were discussing National Championship teams, which is the same award.

The AP and Coaches polls only have a national championship because they say they do. Any organization can claim to announce a championship and if it is a team different than the playoff winner, that team can hang the banner. Won't mean anything but they could hang it. Not sure Oregon would be hanging a banner if they lose in the playoffs and the AP voted them as co-champions (won't happen).

 

[tc1]

Any organization can claim to announce a championship and if it is a team different than the playoff winner, that team can hang the banner.

Yes, but only a dozen are (currently) recognized by the NCAA and recorded in their official record book. And those dozen do not always award the winner of the last game -- which has been my point all along.

 

[trojanfan12]

So speaking of Oregon, can I ask a question?

How does Oregon -- in any scenario from here on out -- not deserve at least a share of the National Championship?

Oregon will finish this season with a resume that is, at absolute worst, as good as any other team in the country. They are 13-0, and the only teams that can even finish with one loss, if they win the tournament, are Notre Dame, Indiana, and Boise State. To put it extremely mildly, at 13-1, Oregon's resume would still be better than any of those three, and they beat Boise State head-to-head. Oregon has four wins that are better than any possessed by ND, IU, and BSU combined.

If Oregon wins even one game in the tournament, there's no contest between them and any other team. If Oregon doesn't win again, and Georgia doesn't lose again, reasonable people could argue that Georgia at 14-2 would have a resume similar to Oregon at 13-1. No other team can plausibly claim the title alone, based on the season. Compared to the rest of the field, Oregon again will have a superior resume even if they lose their next game. All of those teams will have one more loss ( 2 for Clemson ) than Oregon and none have faced the Ducks' difficulty of schedule -- only Clemson is close, and they lost three times.

Oregon is the only team in the tournament that already has a win over a Quarterfinalist. They've also already beaten 25% of the rest of the tourney field. Even if, say, Notre Dame goes on a run to the last game, they'd basically be replicating what Oregon has already accomplished -- Georgia and Ohio State are basically the same, and ND would probably have to beat either Boise or Penn States, which again, Oregon has BTDT.

Basically, the committee better be praying that Oregon wins three more games, or they're going to have to go back to the drawing board for yet another playoff system -- and we should have co-champions in that case.

For the record, yes, I am aware that there's a difference between what they'll deserve and what they'll get, as we've already seen with the tournament seeding.

lol

Hey @OregonDucks...you don't need an alt here.

Seriously, that's not how playoffs work and never has been. The playoffs are about crowning a champion, not necessarily determining the best team. Like it or not, in a single elimination tournament, one bad game can cost the "best team" a title.


So no, if Oregon loses in the cfp, they do not deserve a share of the NC.

So just hypothetically, if Oregon loses to Penn State on a late FG in the last game, you are going to feel that this new system worked? You don't think Oregon would have a very strong argument as co-champions?

No, they would not have a strong argument because they would have lost. Why should the winner, who won the necessary games, have to share their title? Especially if they're the ones who beat Oregon.

And why are Oregon fans the only ones who want a "participation trophy"?

 

[dtgold88]

As I literally just wrote "NCAA football, on the other hand, is a completely different animal for a raft of reasons."

As previously suggested, please read before commenting. If some words are unknown to you, look them up first.

And as I did I showed you all those reasons....question is if you know how different they are why try to use them to compare?

Maybe you should think before precrying?

 

[dtgold88]

Yes, but only a dozen are (currently) recognized by the NCAA and recorded in their official record book. And those dozen do not always award the winner of the last game -- which has been my point all along.

Your only point all along is precry about one team in a playoff being recognized as a champ if they cannot win said playoff.

It's lunacy....and free comedy.

 

[dtgold88]

lol

Hey @OregonDucks...you don't need an alt here.

Seriously, that's not how playoffs work and never has been. The playoffs are about crowning a champion, not necessarily determining the best team. Like it or not, in a single elimination tournament, one bad game can cause the "best team" a title.


So no, if Oregon loses in the cfp, they do not deserve a share of the NC.


No, they would not have a strong argument because they would have lost. Why should the winner, who won the necessary games, have to share their title? Especially if they're the ones who beat Oregon.

And why are Oregon fans the only ones who want a "participation trophy"?

To be fair as far as I can tell it's this one fan wanting a fake title for Oregon in this circumstance. Are their others? Possible but guessing most smart enough to keep it to themselves?

 

[trojanfan12]

To be fair as far as I can tell it's this one fan wanting a fake title for Oregon in this circumstance. Are their others? Possible but guessing most smart enough to keep it to themselves?

You may not have been here when OregonDucks was. That post is very close to something OD would post. Dude was hilarious. And yes, he was pretty much the only Ducks fan who would post something like that. Other Ducks fans used to get mad at him.

Enjoy...

Scenario Village

Welcome to Scenario Village. Lets take a walk through this beautiful village and see what will need to happen for the Oregon Ducks to get into that 4th playoff spot. Many here think it is over, and there is no way a 3 loss Duck team gets in. I have stated numerous times in other posts that...

sportshoop.la

 

[dtgold88]

You may not have been here when OregonDucks was. That post is very close to something OD would post. Dude was hilarious. And yes, he was pretty much the only Ducks fan who would post something like that. Other Ducks fans used to get mad at him.

Enjoy...

Scenario Village

Welcome to Scenario Village. Lets take a walk through this beautiful village and see what will need to happen for the Oregon Ducks to get into that 4th playoff spot. Many here think it is over, and there is no way a 3 loss Duck team gets in. I have stated numerous times in other posts that...

sportshoop.la

Took a brief glimpse and wow. Hell, this was the year could make a strong case OSU was the best team and certainly better than an MSU team who caught us in bad weather on a bad day (in a game I have since learned Zeke was hurt and hardly anyone knew....why not used much).

Never thought OSU deserved to make it into the field, especially not over MSU and certainly was not thinking about how we could win a fake title by being #1 in a poll.

Just wow.