The Wheel of Time

[Edonidd]

Just watched the first episode of this tonight. Looks really good so far, some weird choices on changing stuff for seemingly no reason. But I'm trying hard not to be that guy this time. Trying to just watch with an open mind and no preconceived notions. It's definitely beautiful cinematography the colors and design choices look great. The trollocs in this episode looked kind of cheesey to me for some reason, some worked better than others. Sometimes they looked like fantasy monsters but other scenes they looked like a guy in a hairy suit like 1980s teenwolf. The fade looked right. I get that they're going for a certain look with the Aes Sedai, but the actress that plays Morraine seems weird. Don't know that she's got that gravitas or scene stealing presssence that Morraine Sedai should have in this first book. The Rand actor reminds me exactly of Hayden Christianson as Anakin Skywalker, I keep expecting to see his stupid Palawan braid and hear him complaining about sand. He's also so obviously gay that i don't know if I'll be able to believe him with any of these women. Overall I really liked it though. Gonna watch the next two episodes probably this weekend too.

I know I said I wasn't gonna be that guy, but I just don't understand why screenwriters consistently do things like this. They went to school and had these grand thoughts of being an author and writing their own stuff. But they couldn't. If they could write their own stuff they wouldn't be screen writers. So they get the chance to adapt somebody else's book (whether it is fantasy, or sci fi, or thriller, or drama,mystery, whatever) that was a best seller and beloved by many and performed so well that it was being adapted to a movie. And then these screen writers think they can do better, so they make changes to things that didn't need to be changed. It's like going back and painting a smile on the Mona Lisa. And while you're at it give her blonde hair and big tits. Sure it'll make her more attractive to audiences, but there are millions of paintings of smiling blondes with big tits. There's only one Mona Lisa. And which one do we go all the way to Paris just to see?

 

[flyerhawk]

I read these first 3 or 4 books about 35 years ago so I don't remember them all that well. I'm curious how they do the show.

 

[Mebert]

I read these first 3 or 4 books about 35 years ago so I don't remember them all that well. I'm curious how they do the show.

They follow most of it, but they changed seemingly random things that I don't fully understand. I have only seen the 1st episode so far, so maybe it won't be the case for all of it.

 

[Mebert]

I like this show less the more episodes they add. Kind of a bummer for me.

 

[Edonidd]

I like this show less the more episodes they add. Kind of a bummer for me.

Same. I'm 4 episodes in and I hate it. Probably not even gonna finish this season. Although I may just out of morbid curiosity.

This is not the LOTR style, true to the book adaption show that I wanted. This is a "based on the works of" remake of the book, by some jackals that think they can tell the same story better than Robert Jordan. This show is strictly for people who never read the series.

And on a side note, the mouth breather that they cast to just stand around slack jawed as Perrin is infuriating. But the alien looking woman they cast as Lliandrin is even worse. She reminds ne of that Catwoman lady known for having too much plastic surgery.

 

[wings-pens2166]

Same. I'm 4 episodes in and I hate it. Probably not even gonna finish this season. Although I may just out of morbid curiosity.

This is not the LOTR style, true to the book adaption show that I wanted. This is a "based on the works of" remake of the book, by some jackals that think they can tell the same story better than Robert Jordan. This show is strictly for people who never read the series.

And on a side note, the mouth breather that they cast to just stand around slack jawed as Perrin is infuriating. But the alien looking woman they cast as Lliandrin is even worse. She reminds ne of that Catwoman lady known for having too much plastic surgery.

I made it 2 episodes and I’m done. So disappointing.

 

[PatsFan2003]

I thought episode 4 was pretty interesting myself. I think I'll keep going with this, at least until the new seasons of the Expanse and the Boys show up.

 

[Ottermatic]

personally, i'm quite enjoying it.

it's obviously different than the books in many ways, but I can understand how the difficult transition from the page to the screen made these kinds of changes for the best.

Robert Jordan used a lot of internal monologues, and did a lot of his worldbuilding either in internal monologue or in dialogue. The show has decided to show us as much as possible instead.

The recently released episode 5 is a perfect example of this. We get told several times in the books that Warders never outlive their Aes Sedai for long. Always through dialogue, though. And never in a way that feels personal to the reader (at least not until several books in)

Episode 5 chooses to demonstrate that concept in a way that works better on the screen instead of on the page.

Shooting exactly what was in the novels would never have worked except for people who had already read and loved the novels. This way works for new viewers, and hopefully will get them to the point of giving the (admittedly daunting) 14 novels a try.

Once you get past expecting the show to be exactly what the books were, and start looking at it at its own terms, it's quite enjoyable. I've already used it to introduce several people to the world of WoT, and they universally enjoy it and are starting to show interest in reading the books.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

So far, it's ok imo. I'll continue to watch and see how it unfolds. They're having to condense a lot of information and trim off or alter certain plot lines to make it into a workable screenplay.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

I've watched all 5 episodes. I'm enjoying it for what it is, which is a lot different from the books, obviously. My family is watching it with me, and none of them have read the books, so it's just a new fantasy series for them.

The frustrating parts are when my family doesn't understand something, and they look to me to explain it, and I have to go, "Uhh, sorry, that scene we just saw wasn't in the books at all..."

 

[flyerhawk]

I've watched the first 4 episodes and I'm enjoying it. Not nearly as much of a political drama as Game of Thrones and more of a classic fantasy story which is what the books were.

I think that the characters are all acting more or less rationally and they haven't created any absurd stuff to further the story. This is in stark contrast with Foundation which was often times ridiculous plotwise.

 

[Ottermatic]

I've watched the first 4 episodes and I'm enjoying it. Not nearly as much of a political drama as Game of Thrones and more of a classic fantasy story which is what the books were.

I think that the characters are all acting more or less rationally and they haven't created any absurd stuff to further the story. This is in stark contrast with Foundation which was often times ridiculous plotwise.

I know you said that you only read the first few books, and those years ago, but it does get considerably more political drama later on, particularly in Egwene's (excellent) story arc

Elayne's too. But that one isn't nearly as good as Egwene's. And it's pretty easily cuttable, so my guess is it won't make it onto the show, unless Elayne becomes a major fan favorite character when she's introduced next season.

 

[Mebert]

personally, i'm quite enjoying it.

it's obviously different than the books in many ways, but I can understand how the difficult transition from the page to the screen made these kinds of changes for the best.

Robert Jordan used a lot of internal monologues, and did a lot of his worldbuilding either in internal monologue or in dialogue. The show has decided to show us as much as possible instead.

The recently released episode 5 is a perfect example of this. We get told several times in the books that Warders never outlive their Aes Sedai for long. Always through dialogue, though. And never in a way that feels personal to the reader (at least not until several books in)

Episode 5 chooses to demonstrate that concept in a way that works better on the screen instead of on the page.

Shooting exactly what was in the novels would never have worked except for people who had already read and loved the novels. This way works for new viewers, and hopefully will get them to the point of giving the (admittedly daunting) 14 novels a try.

Once you get past expecting the show to be exactly what the books were, and start looking at it at its own terms, it's quite enjoyable. I've already used it to introduce several people to the world of WoT, and they universally enjoy it and are starting to show interest in reading the books.

That is why I hated episode 5. We are told constantly that things have to be cut because their is too much time, but we spend an entire episode covering a concept that is not hard to understand.

Add in the tv show has cut out every great thing about Mat and left pure garbage behind. That has been the worst part of the show. They have hit almost every other character at least reasonably close.

 

[Ottermatic]

That is why I hated episode 5. We are told constantly that things have to be cut because their is too much time, but we spend an entire episode covering a concept that is not hard to understand.

Add in the tv show has cut out every great thing about Mat and left pure garbage behind. That has been the worst part of the show. They have hit almost every other character at least reasonably close.

Are you kidding?

Mat was a placeholder character in books 1 and 2 to be filled by the shadar logoth corruption. Other characters say he's a scoundrel and prankster, but we never really see it at all.

It's not until books 3 and 4 that Mat comes into his own as a character.

And I say that as someone who thinks Mat is the best character in the story for most of the series

 

[Mebert]

Are you kidding?

Mat was a placeholder character in books 1 and 2 to be filled by the shadar logoth corruption. Other characters say he's a scoundrel and prankster, but we never really see it at all.

It's not until books 3 and 4 that Mat comes into his own as a character.

And I say that as someone who thinks Mat is the best character in the story for most of the series

He opens the book as the prankster everyone talks about, but you are right he is knocked out of it early by shadar lagoth. What he absolutely never was was a thief, grave robber, and all around piece of shit.

Without spoiling for those that have not seen it yet, how episode 6 ends was the worst case by far, as loyalty to friends might be Mats most defined trait....and they can't use shadar lagoth, because curing that is apparently no longer a world ending threat that requires a full circle to heal, but just a few seconds by moraine and it is gone.

 

[Ottermatic]

He opens the book as the prankster everyone talks about, but you are right he is knocked out of it early by shadar lagoth. What he absolutely never was was a thief, grave robber, and all around piece of shit.

Without spoiling for those that have not seen it yet, how episode 6 ends was the worst case by far, as loyalty to friends might be Mats most defined trait....and they can't use shadar lagoth, because curing that is apparently no longer a world ending threat that requires a full circle to heal, but just a few seconds by moraine and it is gone.

I think Moiraine BELIEVES that Mat's connection to the Shadar Logoth dagger is gone, but I don't think it is fully. Remember that an Aes Sedai can speak things that they believe to be true as fact, even if it turns out to be a mistake. I think it is still there, and played its part in why Mat didn't go, and will get worse to the point that, well, the events that it spurs in the Great Hunt will occur in Season 2. (Trying not to get too spoilery)

From a real world perspective, for those that do not know, Barney Harris is not returning to the role of Mat Cauthon for season 2. It has already been recast with Donal Finn. Also, it is known that this episode, episode 6, was the last one filmed before the Covid shutdown. Reading between the lines, I think it very likely that Barney Harris left the production at this point, and the remainder of season 1 had to be rewritten around his absence.

With regard to the scoundrel/prankster vs. thief/grave robber bit, they have certainly made a change there. But I actually think it's one for the better. Think about the books. He is described as a scoundrel/prankster, BUT WE NEVER ACTUALLY SEE IT! Sure, we hear about a few of his pranks from the past recounted (flouring Mrs. Luhhan's dogs to imitate Ghosthounds, for instance), but we never see a prank from him. We also never hear about his motivation or reasons for pranking, besides a general sense of irresponsibility.

In the show, they've made him into a Jean Valjean type of character, who will steal in order to buy lanterns for his sisters, or who will rob the dead in order to buy passage to get back to them. The thief with a heart of gold is a trite archetype, sure, but that's more insight into his motivation than we ever got in the first few novels. I don't think it's a terrible change, especially since it only needed to establish a character long enough for the dagger to take hold.

 

[Ottermatic]

note that the scene where Moiraine says she healed Mat is NOT the same scene where the "healing" occurs. instead, that scene ends, and a new scene starts with just her and Rand where she explains what she did.

I think an original, different, explanation may have been cut that would have been part of the same scene in mat's bedchamber, and a new explanation tacked on after Barney Harris left.

 

[Mebert]

I think Moiraine BELIEVES that Mat's connection to the Shadar Logoth dagger is gone, but I don't think it is fully. Remember that an Aes Sedai can speak things that they believe to be true as fact, even if it turns out to be a mistake. I think it is still there, and played its part in why Mat didn't go, and will get worse to the point that, well, the events that it spurs in the Great Hunt will occur in Season 2. (Trying not to get too spoilery)

From a real world perspective, for those that do not know, Barney Harris is not returning to the role of Mat Cauthon for season 2. It has already been recast with Donal Finn. Also, it is known that this episode, episode 6, was the last one filmed before the Covid shutdown. Reading between the lines, I think it very likely that Barney Harris left the production at this point, and the remainder of season 1 had to be rewritten around his absence.

With regard to the scoundrel/prankster vs. thief/grave robber bit, they have certainly made a change there. But I actually think it's one for the better. Think about the books. He is described as a scoundrel/prankster, BUT WE NEVER ACTUALLY SEE IT! Sure, we hear about a few of his pranks from the past recounted (flouring Mrs. Luhhan's dogs to imitate Ghosthounds, for instance), but we never see a prank from him. We also never hear about his motivation or reasons for pranking, besides a general sense of irresponsibility.

In the show, they've made him into a Jean Valjean type of character, who will steal in order to buy lanterns for his sisters, or who will rob the dead in order to buy passage to get back to them. The thief with a heart of gold is a trite archetype, sure, but that's more insight into his motivation than we ever got in the first few novels. I don't think it's a terrible change, especially since it only needed to establish a character long enough for the dagger to take hold.

I am not sure what more you expect they could have done to establish Mat. You have 4 chapters before the trolloc attacks, after that comes running and possession. In those 4 chapters he has the ghost dogs, the badger he caught to scare the girls at the dance, the quite funny bit where he discusses Rands face while he is trying to understand Egwene. And a few other jokes. That is 3 real actions in 4 chapter to establish what he is. Replacing that character with the absolute complete piece of shit from the show is the worst call of the show. That includes Perrins wife Fridge McFridgerson.

Barney Harris' choice to bail was smart, he has done a good job with shit treatment of the character.

 

[Ottermatic]

I am not sure what more you expect they could have done to establish Mat. You have 4 chapters before the trolloc attacks, after that comes running and possession. In those 4 chapters he has the ghost dogs, the badger he caught to scare the girls at the dance, the quite funny bit where he discusses Rands face while he is trying to understand Egwene. And a few other jokes. That is 3 real actions in 4 chapter to establish what he is. Replacing that character with the absolute complete piece of shit from the show is the worst call of the show. That includes Perrins wife Fridge McFridgerson.

Barney Harris' choice to bail was smart, he has done a good job with shit treatment of the character.

I'm not criticizing the books. I love the books and I'm currently on book 4 in what I believe to be my sixth read or listen to the story.

But the characterization of Mat as a real character, where you can judge him based on what he does, not what others say about him, doesn't really start till book 3. (Not coincidentally, that is also the first book with any Mat POV chapters)

 

[PatsFan2003]

Well the opening to episode 7 was just plain awesome! And the rest was pretty good too.