The Wheel of Time

[calsnowskier]

It's only ridiculous if you think that shows should be dominated by white people. We all grew up expecting that so it can be jarring. But for the younger millenials and Gen Z people, it is more jarring when they see a overwhelmingly white cast. But ultimately, why does it matter what skin color the characters have?

So if you are a show runner that is trying to appeal to the 20 something crowd, it makes complete sense to have a diverse cast. It costs them nothing to do it, and will get them praise for doing so.

Who said the small villages need to be white? Make Two Rivers dominated by Asians or Middle Easterners. Idgaf. But make the racial composition consistent so it it doesn’t stick out like a sore thumb.

there was a commercial for something, I have idea what, about 15 years ago or so that amplified this issue. There were three kids playing some game in a bed room. A black kid, a Latino kid and an Asian kid, iirc. A white woman comes in and says something to them (probably delivering the tag line of the ad) and all the kids respond with something like “OK mom”.

Diversity in casting is great. I really don’t think ANYONE is saying different (except for the actual racist fucks on both sides - ONLY cast whites or cast anyone EXCEPT whites). I am just asking that the story dictate the casting, not a woke checklist. Casting Two Rivers, in a non-woke casting office, should have called for homogeny, not diversity. Conversely, casting for a city (or a port/trading village) should call for more diversity.

 

[calsnowskier]

Ever noticed how in shows like this, we end up settling on “beauty” a bit? Best example I can think of is Walking Dead. None of the cast were particularly stunners at all, but over time Maggie gets thrust forward as somehow being “Drop dead gorgeous”, when in reality she’s nice, but…

Happens with athletes too. Danica Patrick is meh, but for a race car driver she’s an 11 ! . Alex Morgan is another…

I always kinda laugh at everyone going crazy for Patrick. She has a cute face, but you actually almost never get any body shots of her. The few I have seen are overly photoshopped to the point of near animation. Makes me wonder why that is.

One thing I learned very early in the online dating world was that if the profile pic is an extreme closeup of the face, BEWARE!!

 

[calsnowskier]

I get what you’re saying. I mean I went back in the Witcher thread and saw where I was complaining about what they did with Triss, and my complaint there had more to do with how the canon beat into our head her hair color, if nothing else. It looks like in season 2 they tried to weakly pacify us, as she appears with red hair, but it is kind of weak still.

However, I’m determined not to let it affect my enjoyment and it isn’t.

My only pre-show exposure to the Witcher was W3. And in that game, Triss has big, curly BRIGHT red hair. Though I never got the sense that that was critical to her character. It was just a dominant physical characteristic.

If the show had decided to make her a bald, black “little person”, I think her character could still do everything she needed to do. But it would have been extremely shocking to anyone with any exposure to the world before the show. It would have been bad casting because of that. Making her a plain-looking brunette, while not as shocking a turn as what I explained, is still shocking. And qualifies, imho, as questionable casting (or bad wardrobe or SFX since hair is a relatively easy thing to fudge in tv these days).

 

[calsnowskier]

I get your point. I just don't see why we have to believe that Two Rivers, or any other made up place in a made up world, would need to abide by specific expectations.

Genetics and evolution. If you think 2 white people are able to give birth to a black baby, or a Latino and and an Asian can create a white child, OK. That is odd, and makes absolutely zero sense, but at least now I kinda get where you are coming from.

 

[calsnowskier]

No. I don't think it is the point, although I think it is possible. At least with the core group of kids. The fact that they are all "special" could mean that they aren't all from the same gene pool. That would make some sort of sense.

But I suspect they were just trying to appeal to as many people as possible.

I am not so worried about the 5 Dragons. They can all be explained away as being orphans found this way or that and raised in the village. I am more referring to the overall makeup of the town itself. The town itself should be overwhelmingly 1 race (doesn’t have to be white…. Could be Asian, middle eastern, black, Spanish, Italian, Latino, Native American, aboriginal…. Whatever)

 

[flyerhawk]

Genetics and evolution. If you think 2 white people are able to give birth to a black baby, or a Latino and and an Asian can create a white child, OK. That is odd, and makes absolutely zero sense, but at least now I kinda get where you are coming from.

But that really isn't how things work. Asia is comprised of many different genetically diverse racial groups. Much of it is homogenized. But there are regions that have a lot of genetic mixing to the point that those areas look very different genetically today than they did 1000 or 2000 years ago. An area that has faced a lot of wars between different ethnic groups is naturally going to be more diverse. Invaders come and r*pe the women and/or enslave people. This creates more mixed race people.

If the world you created is one big continent then you could see quite a bit of diversity as there would be few impediments to migration.

 

[calsnowskier]

But that really isn't how things work. Asia is comprised of many different genetically diverse racial groups. Much of it is homogenized. But there are regions that have a lot of genetic mixing to the point that those areas look very different genetically today than they did 1000 or 2000 years ago. An area that has faced a lot of wars between different ethnic groups is naturally going to be more diverse. Invaders come and r*pe the women and/or enslave people. This creates more mixed race people.

If the world you created is one big continent then you could see quite a bit of diversity as there would be few impediments to migration.

You are correct. “Latino” is really just a hybrid of Spanish and NA. Spanish is a mix between European and the Moops. Sicilian is a mix of African and Italian.

But that is EXACTLY my point. Two Rivers is isolated. There is immigration, but not much (they even provide a line IN THE SHOW to amplify how isolated TR actually is). And even though it was a major hub at one time, it is no longer, and hasn’t been for hundreds (thousands??) of years. The inner-breeding that would have occurred in that vacuum over the generations would have created a new somewhat homogenous race. Sure, this family line would have larger noses, and that family line would tend to be shorter while the other family line might have more blue eyed kids than the average, but they would all have some basic resemblance to each other. You would not have one family that is “pure” black or white or middle eastern. They LOOK alien to each other. After dozens of generations, that level of diversity would be lost In a closed gene pool.

In this imaginary world, we don’t know what these different races would actually look like. But that isn’t important. And in these imaginary world there is no such thing as “Asian” or “European” or “African” or “Middle Eastern”. But these races can be used as place holders. In GoT, the Dothraki were represented by light skinned black people. There was homogeny used in the casting. The Dorne was represented with more Middle-Eastern casting. The North was represented by a more white/European cast. The racial makeup of the cast (and the extras) made sense.

Not that the North HAD to be white, but that it was consistent. Not that the Dothraki had to be black(ish), but that it was consistent. Not that Dorne had to be ME, but that it was consistent.

 

[BusSport]

The racial makeup in Hamilton was the entire point of that play, though. Are you making the point that the total diversity in Two Rivers is the point of WoT? I haven’t read the books. Maybe it is and I just don’t get it.

As mentioned in more detail in my earlier post, it's the opposite: the books emphasize that the Two Rivers starts out ethnically homogeneous, which is actually plot-significant in two ways: First, Rand is the exception, a hint that he is the Dragon Reborn. Second, starting in Book 6, the Two Rivers undergoes a huge demographic transformation into a diverse population, with refugees from other nations streaming in.

 

[Mebert]

Again, didn’t read the books, but I think we are in a period of television where is doesn’t do any of us much good to overthink things.

I’d take a story/canon like a Mass Effect in ANY form they’d like to deliver it to me at this point (as an example) and have fun with it. I don’t get the snobbery unless it is just plain garbage, which this really isn’t.

I started to play mass effect for the first time 2 days ago. I am liking it. It is almost Kotor.

 

[calsnowskier]

As mentioned in more detail in my earlier post, it's the opposite: the books emphasize that the Two Rivers starts out ethnically homogeneous, which is actually plot-significant in two ways: First, Rand is the exception, a hint that he is the Dragon Reborn. Second, starting in Book 6, the Two Rivers undergoes a huge demographic transformation into a diverse population, with refugees from other nations streaming in.

I was making a point. He brought up the cast of Hamilton in arguing against the arguments against the casting decisions for the people of Two Rivers.

The racial makeup of the cast of Hamilton is CRITICAL to the points being made in Hamilton, drawing a parallel between the War for Independence and the current fight for civil rights.

But making the racial makeup for Two Rivers as diverse as the producers of the show decided to make it would only make sense if there were some deeper, symbolic meaning behind said casting. If it were just woke checklistism, than bringing in Hamilton makes no sense.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I started to play mass effect for the first time 2 days ago. I am liking it. It is almost Kotor.

Same group if I recall. They also do Dragon Age which is solid as well.

 

[BusSport]

I was making a point. He brought up the cast of Hamilton in arguing against the arguments against the casting decisions for the people of Two Rivers.

The racial makeup of the cast of Hamilton is CRITICAL to the points being made in Hamilton, drawing a parallel between the War for Independence and the current fight for civil rights.

But making the racial makeup for Two Rivers as diverse as the producers of the show decided to make it would only make sense if there were some deeper, symbolic meaning behind said casting. If it were just woke checklistism, than bringing in Hamilton makes no sense.

Yeah, I know. I was agreeing with and providing book support for your point.

What really bothers me, though, is the massive, unnecessary, and terrible alterations they've made to the plot in this adaptation.

 

[Sparhawk]

I agree with this. The actress playing Nynaeve isn't ugly certainly but she isn't striking either. Egwene I find to be very plain.

It seems like the show runners intentionally chose to not hire really pretty people.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

SPOILERS probably in here.

Got to finish this season and went back through a few episodes again. I'm not a fan of the casting. Yea, there is an unrealistic diversity checklist in places, but it also seems like the studio intentionally avoided casting good-looking female actresses. From the Two Rivers to Tar Valon, the women are practically all plain to cute-in-the-right-light.

I liked or didn't mind some of the changes from the novels, like travel, Padan Fain, the flashback scenes of Lews Therin, the quick way they handled Logain's story, the saidin/saidar difference, etc. Sill, I didn't like other changes--the 5 dragons concept, the "seal" at the end, the Ogier's death, etc.

Introducing characters and getting the plot going was going to take time, so I'm hoping season 2 helps explain the departures from the book and fill out how season 1 ended.

If I am going to finish season 2, it had better be quite a bit better than season 1.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Except they could've picked a better looking Nynaeve... my God you can land a plane on that forehead

Lol... I've made similar comments. Isn't she Lenny Kravitz's daughter?

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Sill, I didn't like other changes--the 5 dragons concept, the "seal" at the end, the Ogier's death, etc.

Could not believe they offed Loial. I'm hoping he's still alive somehow in season 2. There were so many other departures in that finale that made me hate it.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Could not believe they offed Loial. I'm hoping he's still alive somehow in season 2. There were so many other departures in that finale that made me hate it.

They said in an interview he wasn't dead

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Lol... I've made similar comments. Isn't she Lenny Kravitz's daughter?

Don't think so

Her peak acting credit is a power ranger tv show tho.. sooo....yea.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Don't think so

Her peak acting credit is a power ranger tv show tho.. sooo....yea.

She's so incredibly unlikable, which means she's nailing the character from the books

 

[BusSport]

Lol... I've made similar comments. Isn't she Lenny Kravitz's daughter?

Naw, Nynaeve is played by Zoe Robins.

Lenny Kravitz's daughter is Zoe Kravitz, who is playing Catwoman in the upcoming The Batman.