Series Thread: The Rangers Are In LA to Play The Dodgers June 12-13

[saddles]

I am starting to lose faith in OPS due to untimely strikeouts like Gallo with two on and one out last night.

Just think money has to be a factored in and Profar unfortunately has to be a significant improvement. To me we do the best we can to split time and see if a guy like Beltre and even Choo is moved at the break. Maybe Profar is moved but I doubt it. i think he is stil a JD fav

The main problem I have with OPS is the "O" part. A stat that gives just as much weight to a walk as a single is flawed to me. That being said, walks can't be ignored. Until we get a stat that lowers the value of a walk in relation to a single OPS is the best we have.

 

[jta4437]

I am starting to lose faith in OPS due to untimely strikeouts like Gallo with two on and one out last night.

Just think money has to be a factored in and Profar unfortunately has to be a significant improvement. To me we do the best we can to split time and see if a guy like Beltre and even Choo is moved at the break. Maybe Profar is moved but I doubt it. i think he is stil a JD fav

You can use whatever metric you want, Odor is worse than Profar

 

[saddles]

This is very good news.

 

[saddles]

I have higher expectations for Hans Crouse than anyone else in our system. I sure hope he stays healthy.

 

[Kelleyman]

You can use whatever metric you want, Odor is worse than Profar

Hahaha. For now and likely in the future...agreed. Still be interesting how it plays out once EA is back.

 

[Nightcrawler]

QUALITY START
In less than a week, Elvis Andrus should be back in the Rangers lineup. That will trigger other decisions about the Rangers infield, especially about the future.

Here is what I think I know: Given playing time together in the infield, Jurickson Profar has outplayed Rougned Odor.

But not well enough.

In this season, which is not actually about this season at all, it’s easy to be fooled by even the slightest improvements in play. Yes, Profar has been an offensive improvement over the still-disappointing Odor. But it’s more complicated than that. This season is now about figuring out the long-term future and it’s hard to see where Profar has made a compelling case to be part of that.

Entering Wednesday’s game at Los Angeles, Profar was hitting .242 with a .304 OBP and .762 OPS since moving into the everyday lineup on April 13. It’s a significant improvement over Odor’s similar slash-line elements over the last two seasons: .206/.257/.637. It’s just not significant enough.

The Rangers have a long-term investment in Odor, who has shown some small signs of finally “getting it” in the last two weeks. The Rangers could have him under control through 2023 for, all things considered, pretty reasonable costs whereas Profar is going to be eligible for free agency after 2020. Odor is a year younger and has two full seasons with a higher OPS than what Profar has shown. Odor’s power, which admittedly has not been visible this year, trumps any singular tool Profar has displayed.

I know what you are thinking: But what about shortstop?

The Rangers have a shortstop in Andrus who could opt for free agency after the year. Even if he doesn’t, he’s about to turn 30. Doesn’t Profar fit as a replacement for him? And if Andrus stays, then he could move to third base and Profar could play short and then the Rangers would have a solution to the impending departure of Adrian Beltre.

The thing is: Andrus, despite being five years older, still appears to be a significant defensive upgrade over Profar at short. Of the 25 qualifying shortstops, according to fangraphs.com, Profar ranks 22nd in the defensive runs saved category at -8.

Perhaps, you say, DRS is a projection stat and not an actual stat. OK, well, there is this: He leads all MLB shortstops in errors with 12. There are two guys, the Chicago White Sox Tim Anderson and Oakland’s Marcus Semien, with 11. They have both played at least 90 more innings at short than Profar. Next is a group at eight. They have all played more than 100 innings at short than Profar. The point: Profar has not been very good defensively. Case in point: He simply rushed and threw wildly for error No. 12 Tuesday on what should have been a double play. It extended a big Dodgers inning.

I know you’ve got one other question: Why not send Odor down to send him a message and play Profar for a while?

To this, I would say: Fair point. On the plus side, maybe Profar would raise his trade value a bit by staying in the lineup regularly, too. Ultimately, though, Profar’s value is not great and not going to get significantly greater. Odor is still more part of the future. Profar hasn’t made a clear and compelling case for the Rangers to change directions. Players are smart enough to pick up on this. Send Odor down and it comes across as nothing more than punitive and you risk losing the player’s belief in you.

The bottom line is the Rangers have finally given Jurickson Profar the long-term look he always deserved. He has done OK but has not seized the opportunity.

Worst article I’ve ever read. That guy is a moron and an odor lover.


The best player should play, what’s with this “ he’s out played him, but not well enough” bullshit.

The guy who wrote that is probably some cuck pussy boy who likes watching Odor’s minor league style of play.

Article made me so mad. Profar has clearly out played odor and I think if we gave him all of this year to play, his stats would be even better next year.

 

[Kelleyman]

I have higher expectations for Hans Crouse than anyone else in our system. I sure hope he stays healthy.

Seems to have that moxy and the stuff to back it up. Hope our new additions prove well. I liked Ortiz too. Wish we didn't lose him

 

[Nightcrawler]

QUALITY START
In less than a week, Elvis Andrus should be back in the Rangers lineup. That will trigger other decisions about the Rangers infield, especially about the future.

Here is what I think I know: Given playing time together in the infield, Jurickson Profar has outplayed Rougned Odor.

But not well enough.

In this season, which is not actually about this season at all, it’s easy to be fooled by even the slightest improvements in play. Yes, Profar has been an offensive improvement over the still-disappointing Odor. But it’s more complicated than that. This season is now about figuring out the long-term future and it’s hard to see where Profar has made a compelling case to be part of that.

Entering Wednesday’s game at Los Angeles, Profar was hitting .242 with a .304 OBP and .762 OPS since moving into the everyday lineup on April 13. It’s a significant improvement over Odor’s similar slash-line elements over the last two seasons: .206/.257/.637. It’s just not significant enough.

The Rangers have a long-term investment in Odor, who has shown some small signs of finally “getting it” in the last two weeks. The Rangers could have him under control through 2023 for, all things considered, pretty reasonable costs whereas Profar is going to be eligible for free agency after 2020. Odor is a year younger and has two full seasons with a higher OPS than what Profar has shown. Odor’s power, which admittedly has not been visible this year, trumps any singular tool Profar has displayed.

I know what you are thinking: But what about shortstop?

The Rangers have a shortstop in Andrus who could opt for free agency after the year. Even if he doesn’t, he’s about to turn 30. Doesn’t Profar fit as a replacement for him? And if Andrus stays, then he could move to third base and Profar could play short and then the Rangers would have a solution to the impending departure of Adrian Beltre.

The thing is: Andrus, despite being five years older, still appears to be a significant defensive upgrade over Profar at short. Of the 25 qualifying shortstops, according to fangraphs.com, Profar ranks 22nd in the defensive runs saved category at -8.

Perhaps, you say, DRS is a projection stat and not an actual stat. OK, well, there is this: He leads all MLB shortstops in errors with 12. There are two guys, the Chicago White Sox Tim Anderson and Oakland’s Marcus Semien, with 11. They have both played at least 90 more innings at short than Profar. Next is a group at eight. They have all played more than 100 innings at short than Profar. The point: Profar has not been very good defensively. Case in point: He simply rushed and threw wildly for error No. 12 Tuesday on what should have been a double play. It extended a big Dodgers inning.

I know you’ve got one other question: Why not send Odor down to send him a message and play Profar for a while?

To this, I would say: Fair point. On the plus side, maybe Profar would raise his trade value a bit by staying in the lineup regularly, too. Ultimately, though, Profar’s value is not great and not going to get significantly greater. Odor is still more part of the future. Profar hasn’t made a clear and compelling case for the Rangers to change directions. Players are smart enough to pick up on this. Send Odor down and it comes across as nothing more than punitive and you risk losing the player’s belief in you.

The bottom line is the Rangers have finally given Jurickson Profar the long-term look he always deserved. He has done OK but has not seized the opportunity.

The other thing that makes this article total bullshit is that I think the baseball reason Odor was given the contract was his power hitting. His power hitting has been non existent this year and he’s been a bad player for 2 years now. I think the leagues pitchers have adjusted to him, he’s had forever to adjust back, and he’s shown no signs of having the ability to make the necessary adjustments. I hope he’s not on the team by the time we move to the new stadium.

 

[Kelleyman]

The main problem I have with OPS is the "O" part. A stat that gives just as much weight to a walk as a single is flawed to me. That being said, walks can't be ignored. Until we get a stat that lowers the value of a walk in relation to a single OPS is the best we have.

I wonder if productive outs vs untimely strikeouts could be factored in. I think you have to use all including eye test. Part of me still old school

 

[True Rangers Fan]

Fans are smart too.

Generally speaking, this couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[jta4437]

I wonder if productive outs vs untimely strikeouts could be factored in. I think you have to use all including eye test. Part of me still old school

Absolutely include all factors, but focusing on the eye test is what got Odor that fat contract to begin with, the flaws were readily apparent to a casual fan much less an organization that has access to the analytical data it does

 

[saddles]

Generally speaking, this couldn't be further from the truth.

It was in response to the guy who wrote the article saying players are smart. Some of each party are dumb as a bag of rocks and some are actually knowledgeable to at least some degree. The same is true of writers and talk show hosts. Smart players would actually know why Odor was being sent down. The article could not be more wrong on that part. I chose that wording for effect because the author used that kind of wording and I thought that would be obvious. If I had explained in detail you would have thought I was over explaining the obvious again.

How about, smart fans will realize that making a decision based on a mistake is bad decision making.

 

[saddles]

I wonder if productive outs vs untimely strikeouts could be factored in. I think you have to use all including eye test. Part of me still old school

Then there is the theory that the best thing a batter can do is make the pitcher throw a lot of pitches. What if a so called productive out came on the first pitch and the strikeout came on the 9th pitch of the AB. Not that I am too fond of the theory that wearing a pitcher down is of utmost importance. Myself, I would rather our hitters wear a pitcher out by punishing him with hits off of him than wear him down. Of course, there might be some very limited exceptions.

 

[Kelleyman]

Then there is the theory that the best thing a batter can do is make the pitcher throw a lot of pitches. What if a so called productive out came on the first pitch and the strikeout came on the 9th pitch of the AB. Not that I am too fond of the theory that wearing a pitcher down is of utmost importance. Myself, I would rather our hitters wear a pitcher out by punishing him with hits off of him than wear him down. Of course, there might be some very limited exceptions.

That is true but sometime moving the runner to 3rd with no outs tie ballgame bottom of ninth is better than waiting it out.

Good points but it still shows the limits of our analytic culture. Very useful tool but not end all.

Which makes for good baseball discussion

 

[donaldson79]

At least to me, it appears that Odor is trying to be more productive, with limited success granted, but he's still making an effort. And as for Profar, his D at SS has been at best below avg., and his hitting isn't all that much higher that Odor's. But he gets a lot more out of his ab than Odor does, that's for sure.

On the Odor front, first, the FO totally screwed up with even offering him the money so early to begin with. But that's history. But what isn't, is his lack of being able to play another position. At least Profar can fill in at short, or 3rd when needed.

It's going to be an uphill battle for Odor to gain the fans approval back b/c he's in a similar position as Choo. Can't play D, and his contract is a bad one.

 

[Nightcrawler]

It seems like this kind of stuff ONLY happens to the rangers but....


Chris Martin is now injured. He tweaked his hamstring running in from the bullpen when the benches cleared yesterday.

 

[DT LUNA]

It seems like this kind of stuff ONLY happens to the rangers but....


Chris Martin is now injured. He tweaked his hamstring running in from the bullpen when the benches cleared yesterday.

Certainly happens enough

 

[donaldson79]

It can be done.

Ex-All Star Sano optioned to Single-A by Twins

 

[Nightcrawler]

It can be done.

Ex-All Star Sano optioned to Single-A by Twins

The Twinkies had the guts to do what’s necessary.


The question is do the rangers?

We’ll find out soon enough.

 

[donaldson79]

The Twinkies had the guts to do what’s necessary.


The question is do the rangers?

We’ll find out soon enough.

You're a TAD more harsh on the Rangers brain-trust than I am on this subject. And I've been one of the most 'rain-on-Odor's-parade' guys here.

But here's what I see, and makes me wonder some myself. Odor is honestly working and giving 100% to improve his game. But my question is, 'why can't he do that at a lower level?' He's gonna get paid the same regardless of what rung-of-the-ladder he's standing on. So why not take the pressure off him and us by sending him down?

Also, it gives Profar more time to increase his trade value, and/or value to us, by letting him play 2nd.

Seems to me, by sending Odor down it really helps all parties concerned.