THE PAC12 Thread

[WizardHawk]

I don't know if anyone faked injuries or not. But I will say the days of walking off the field for an injury are over when it comes to defenses facing HUNH offenses, and teams that play those kinds of offenses are just going to have to suck it up.

And I'm not talking about faking injuries, which is lame. I'm talking about coaches are going to tell a player to drop the ground for injuries they would have walked off the field for in the past. If you want to call that "faking" then whatever.

Because they can't walk off the field anymore. That is the reality of where football is right now. Against these offenses the only way a player who is injured for any reason, even something they can walk off the field for, can get off the field is if they drop. So if a player is wanting to come off the field, the coaches are going to tell them to drop.

Because if they don't, then the offense is just going to call a play while the defense is down a player, which in the case of an actual injury is even more lame than the defender going to the ground. Because if an injured player can walk off the field in time, then there wouldn't be substitution problems in general.

That's just the reality of it. Coach I think my arm is broke - drop to the ground. We can't substitute you without a stoppage in play. If we could, then we would be able to substitute during the plays with the non-injured.

Think about it.

I don't argue with anything you said. I would say in this case he writhed around on the ground for a good long time which gave a decent rest to the other players. Dropping just so they can get off without being flagged makes sense, but did you see how long it was for both of them?

And I say again that it didn't cost UW the game so it really wasn't that big of a deal to me. You can't do anything to stop it without giving some penalty to teams who really do have a player hurt.

Since there is no rule on the books against it and there is no way to stop it you aren't going to see an end to it anytime soon. But you have to admit some are really dumb about it. Did you see that northwestern fake? Dude was totally fine, play was well past over, and out of nowhere he drops to the ground. Wish I could find a link to that one.

It is a part of the game now and teams running the uptempo will bitch about it while those who don't keep doing it.

 

[Not Neutral]

I didn't think you were a dick about it at all and you have a solid point. I heard that the players were initially shocked when it happened and things could have gone south on them pretty quickly.

The difference and what makes this a potential positive, imo, is Orgeron!! Orgeron is beloved by everyone at USC (not just the players) and word is that his energy is infecting the team. He also made a couple of positive moves right away that I believe will be helpful.

He is allowing desserts at the training table again (not sure why this was ever taken away) and he opened practices up to the media again. I think the opening things up to the media was a good move.

For reasons that we'll likely never know, Kiffin chose to create an adversarial relationship with the media. This created a negative environment because they proceeded to slam everything about Kiffin and the program. No one wants to be dealing with that every day, especially a bunch of 18-21 year olds.

The negativity around the program essentially made Kiffin something of a cancer for the team. When a cancer is removed from the body, it is subtraction, but it's subtraction that makes the overall health better. There is, of course, a healing period that is required and now we find out how long that healing period will take.

"The negativity around the program essentially made Kiffin something of a cancer for the team." and for the school; that's what did him in. But that's all in the past. USC still has all that talent hanging around and a small squad will challenge them but it won't do them in. If Ogeron can motivate that defense they will win some games on their own. There's no where to go but up now. I'm glad we played you early. The ones on the end may get some surprises.

 

[yeodonie]

I don't know if anyone faked injuries or not. But I will say the days of walking off the field for an injury are over when it comes to defenses facing HUNH offenses, and teams that play those kinds of offenses are just going to have to suck it up.

And I'm not talking about faking injuries, which is lame. I'm talking about coaches are going to tell a player to drop the ground for injuries they would have walked off the field for in the past. If you want to call that "faking" then whatever.

Because they can't walk off the field anymore. That is the reality of where football is right now. Against these offenses the only way a player who is injured for any reason, even something they can walk off the field for, can get off the field is if they drop. So if a player is wanting to come off the field, the coaches are going to tell them to drop.

Because if they don't, then the offense is just going to call a play while the defense is down a player, which in the case of an actual injury is even more lame than the defender going to the ground. Because if an injured player can walk off the field in time, then there wouldn't be substitution problems in general.

That's just the reality of it. Coach I think my arm is broke - drop to the ground. We can't substitute you without a stoppage in play. If we could, then we would be able to substitute during the plays with the non-injured.

Think about it.

Sounds good. Then said player is too injured to come back in until next series. Player safety and all. :rollseyes:

 

[Not Neutral]

I don't argue with anything you said. I would say in this case he writhed around on the ground for a good long time which gave a decent rest to the other players. Dropping just so they can get off without being flagged makes sense, but did you see how long it was for both of them?

And I say again that it didn't cost UW the game so it really wasn't that big of a deal to me. You can't do anything to stop it without giving some penalty to teams who really do have a player hurt.

Since there is no rule on the books against it and there is no way to stop it you aren't going to see an end to it anytime soon. But you have to admit some are really dumb about it. Did you see that northwestern fake? Dude was totally fine, play was well past over, and out of nowhere he drops to the ground. Wish I could find a link to that one.

It is a part of the game now and teams running the uptempo will bitch about it while those who don't keep doing it.

Well said, Wiz. As far as I am concerned, all's fair in love and war as they say. Foolish not to use what tools you have.

 

[Not Neutral]

Mamba- I will openly admit I have seen the tape of CT against O under Harbaugh and it was weak sauce. Harbaugh has done a ton of stuff that are not Stanford behaviors (such as going for two just to hang 50 on someone).

I have not seen any evidence of Shaw encouraging or allowing people to fake injuries. I have watched the tape and seen the videos. Skov took a helmet to his surgically repaired knee and hyper extended it. He sat out 3 plays in the game, did not practice yesterday and had an MRI, so either he is hurt for real or Shaw is playing the long con really well. Gardner went down with an apparent stinger (which hurts like hell) but had the benefit of a TV timeout to get it worked on.

I am happy to admit Harbaugh did it. But, I just don't see it either in the tape or in the players they chose to do it with in the situation they did it in. It makes no logical sense. If it is found out that they did fake them, then I will openly admit my shame and call coach and bitch him out.

Show me any evidence of a Shaw led team doing that to Oregon in the last 2 years. I only remember 3 injuries on the Stanford side in the last two match-up's.

Don't get excited, SUB. I can't see Stanford, with likely the highest IQ in the conference, not availing themselves of what weapons they have and that might include faking an injury for the team. What they need is to do is update the defense sub rules to deal with the up tempo offenses. They have not so it is being dealt with otherwise. No one can do anything about it, so why not just accept it. Its the price you pay for running an up tempo offense. If Harbaugh did it, cant be all bad.

 

[TheDayMan]

If Harbaugh did it, cant be all bad.

:confused2:

 

[4down20]

I don't argue with anything you said. I would say in this case he writhed around on the ground for a good long time which gave a decent rest to the other players. Dropping just so they can get off without being flagged makes sense, but did you see how long it was for both of them?

And I say again that it didn't cost UW the game so it really wasn't that big of a deal to me. You can't do anything to stop it without giving some penalty to teams who really do have a player hurt.

Since there is no rule on the books against it and there is no way to stop it you aren't going to see an end to it anytime soon. But you have to admit some are really dumb about it. Did you see that northwestern fake? Dude was totally fine, play was well past over, and out of nowhere he drops to the ground. Wish I could find a link to that one.

It is a part of the game now and teams running the uptempo will bitch about it while those who don't keep doing it.

Faking it is lame, but it's basically impossible to know if they are faking it or not. Even when you aren't playing up tempo teams I see players get hurt and then come back in a play or 2 later. Some injuries just need to be walked off.

 

[4down20]

Sounds good. Then said player is too injured to come back in until next series. Player safety and all. :rollseyes:

How about instead we just make it so players can substitute any time they want and the offense just waits with the clock stopped? No? Why? Because it doesn't benefit your team right?

 

[TheDayMan]

Faking it is lame, but it's basically impossible to know if they are faking it or not. Even when you aren't playing up tempo teams I see players get hurt and then come back in a play or 2 later. Some injuries just need to be walked off.

Not being able to hobble your ass off the field with an "injury" that can just be walked off is lame.

 

[Not Neutral]

Stanford is that high because right now it thinks they have the toughest schedule in the country and will only lose 1 to Oregon. They are also a team that is considered very good. I'm not sure I disagree with it, won't know for sure until a few more games get played.

Oregon has a weak schedule and hasn't played anyone. They will probably rise as the year goes on, they started out like #9 and have moved up. I don't feel bad about their ranking at this point honestly. Future games only count for half their points, so if they start beating some better teams they should rise more etc.

It likes ASU, and while they are currently 3-2, it's looking at their entire schedule. It see's them as winning out right now, and #11 is right where a 10-2 teams should finish. UCLA and Washington are the big ones they will need to win, but a loss to Stanford isn't going to hurt, and a loss to Notre Dame isn't going to hurt that much either at this point.

Oregon St lost to a FCS school. That will hurt any team a ton, and IMO it should because these games shouldn't be scheduled to start with. I penalize teams for playing them generally, I award 0 points for a win, and -100 points for a loss.

USC is picked to finish 7-6 and bowl eligible right now. If they do finish with that record, it's an accurate ranking. The computer works solely off stats with no human input, it has no clue who is the coach or any such things. I don't "fix" them based on my opinion, it's completely unbiased in what it does without opinion. My only input is in the formula itself.

UCLA was #5 before the bug fix, #7 last week which was a bit high. If they are as good as they seem, they should rise up. Especially if they fix a couple of losses. The worst prediction is a 1 point loss to USC. If they show some strength and/or USC shows more weakness, a change in that prediction should put them top25ish right away, and would drop USC to where they probably will be at seasons end. 1 point won't take much stats wise to change that.

Some teams have been purged of last years stats, and some others(Baylor) still have 2 weeks to go. The way the data is normalized any team still on last years data will have some effect on other teams, but I don't think it's going to be that major. Another major factor at this point is limited data. 5 weeks is what I consider the bare minimum, but the more weeks the better. Especially while teams like Oregon/Baylor and so on have yet to be challenged.

Quality games mean a bunch to these things, and while you start getting a clearer picture around week 7-8, it's not really solid until near the end of the year. I think of it as trying to gain focus, and each week new data comes in and makes it clearer.

It likes ASU, and while they are currently 3-2, it's looking at their entire schedule. It see's them as winning out right now, and #11 is right where a 10-2 teams should finish.

I like the program! Hope the predictions are accurate. While that forecast may be a little more than the Devil's can deliver, it could be close, mighty close. What really gives me confidence about your predictions is the forecast for USC. I think that it right on, especially the one point win over UCLA, a game that will be won by the defense.

 

[4down20]

Not being able to hobble your ass off the field with an "injury" that can just be walked off is lame.

That's the fault of the offenses who don't give fully healthy players time to substitute, much less someone with an injury.

 

[yeodonie]

How about instead we just make it so players can substitute any time they want and the offense just waits with the clock stopped? No? Why? Because it doesn't benefit your team right?

Defense is called defense because they don't dictate pace and attack. That's what an offense does. There are fairness rules for substitution. Cheating to do it is bad for the game.

 

[TheDayMan]

That's the fault of the offenses who don't give fully healthy players time to substitute, much less someone with an injury.

That sir, is bullshit. I believe.

The burden of making sure a team has everyone they want on the field is not the opposing team's.

 

[4down20]

Defense is called defense because they don't dictate pace and attack. That's what an offense does. There are fairness rules for substitution. Cheating to do it is bad for the game.

That's not why defense is called defense.

"Fairness" rules for subs amounts to allowing the defense to substitute when the offense does, that's it. Has nothing to do with injuries. I'm not even talking about fake injuries here.

I'm just pointing out the reality of how players have no choice but to go to the ground for any and all injuries. Funny how you mention there are rules, but yet also want to add rules that punish teams for having injuries. And all because of how it affects your team.

Lets just keep changing the rules until your favorite team is best right?

 

[Not Neutral]

Everyday I tweet @ Will Sutton drop the weight tubby. I aint stopping until the fat ass gets off the sofa.

Is this one fatty dissing another fatty? :rollseyes:

 

[4down20]

That sir, is bullshit. I believe.

The burden of making sure a team has everyone they want on the field is not the opposing team's.

Yes, because we just need to make injured players keep playing, and if they have to hobble off the field and let the offense have an easy score because the other team is down a man or 2 for the play, well tough shit.

:rollseyes:

 

[TheDayMan]

Yes, because we just need to make injured players keep playing, and if they have to hobble off the field and let the offense have an easy score because the other team is down a man or 2 for the play, well tough shit.

:rollseyes:

Thank you.

 

[TheDayMan]

And by the way, it's not an injury if you are in the game a play later. That's called a boo-boo, or a "my vagina hurts."

 

[4down20]

And by the way, it's not an injury if you are in the game a play later. That's called a boo-boo, or a "my vagina hurts."

Have you ever played any sports in your life?

 

[Not Neutral]

I just tried to look for Will Sutton on twitter and there's like a million of them.

Well, just keep your eye on Jahii. Sutton will find him sooner or later. When he does Jahii will lose a few pounds.