The PAC12 THREAD v.2

[WizardHawk]

non-sequitur.

The SEC doesn't get that many teams up high simply because of 1 less conference game.

I'll take that as my que to get back to work for now. I can tell when someone has thrown in the towel.

You don't want to address the larger picture and that's fine. There is more wrong with college football than the SEC just not adding one more conf game. It's a package deal. Fixing all of it would make for a better college football product for all of us fans.

4D20, You have told us in the past that you have never been to a live game. Were you able to make it to one last year? If not, you really have to do something about that. Please go spend the day both seeing one of those joke games and then one against LSU or Auburn and tell us if there is a difference for that same money spent going to that game. I just wonder if your perspective would change at all when you get your yearly bill for tickets and see so many horrible games on it.

This year I paid over a thousand dollars to get a pair of tickets to see 7 home games. All of the 3 OOC games are junk and I'm not happy about it. And yes I have sent my opinions to the school about it. If it wasn't for getting Stanford, UCLA, and ASU at home I might have considered not keeping my tickets. We also have Oregon State at home which at least is a regional rival. Having to pay full price to see Eastern Wa, Illinois, and Georgia State is a total and complete fucking joke. By the time you add in the cost of tailgating and all that goes with going to those games I'll be out $500-$600 for 3 embarrassingly dumb games. Would YOU be happy with that?

All I want is better college football. Why is that a bad thing?

 

[Codaxx]

Why not drop to 1 conference game if you want to use that reasoning? Because that would be stupid and the fans wouldn't put up with it. Sticking to the subject, we are talking the difference between 8 and 9 IC games. You guys have your jimmies all rustled because you think that is what the SEC has done to create and maintain its dominance the past 8 years. Here's what I think ....

1. The SEC OOC isn't as bad as you guys make it out to be.
2. The weaker OOC is balanced by the stronger IC schedule the SEC plays, so it's even there.
3. It will all come out in the wash with the new playoff.

Again this is not always representative:
SEC East schedule #1: Ole Miss, So Car, UK , Georgia, Mizzu, Florida, Miss State, Tenn
Schedule #2: UK, Bama, Tenn. LSU, Mizzu, Georgia, Vandy, So Car..

Variance in SOS in conference schedules can be massive in the SEC.

 

[WizardHawk]

Why not drop to 1 conference game if you want to use that reasoning? Because that would be stupid and the fans wouldn't put up with it. Sticking to the subject, we are talking the difference between 8 and 9 IC games. You guys have your jimmies all rustled because you think that is what the SEC has done to create and maintain its dominance the past 8 years. Here's what I think ....

1. The SEC OOC isn't as bad as you guys make it out to be.
2. The weaker OOC is balanced by the stronger IC schedule the SEC plays, so it's even there.
3. It will all come out in the wash with the new playoff.

Right, but your fans fully support the excuses hand fed you about why 8 is better than 9 when that last OOC is always going to be a totally shit team. That's the point.
1. Never said all games were terrible. I have said the 4th game would always be the worst. If you drop to 3 you won't be getting rid of those good games you now have right?
2. And if the SEC did what the Pac used to do and devalue wins against FCS level teams everyone else would also follow suit and we all improve evenly. All conference would improve the quality of their schedules, not just the SEC ones.
3. The worry is if the SEC manages to have a couple of teams in that playoff that the rest of our conferences will give in and add another dumbed down OOC game.

I knew this would be your answer ... you simply lump all the SEC OOC into the shit category, but the minute anyone points out to you that you play patsies, too, you jump to the "not all our games are patsies" defense. Guess what? The SEC actually plays alot of good OOC games. I am not going to take the time to look it all up, but we know they play GaTech, FSU, Clemson and Louisville annually. This year we also play West Virginia, TexasTech, Kansas State, Clemson, Wisconsin, Indiana and others. So, no, not all the early season games for the SEC are patsies. To suggest there aren't any good OOC games in the SEC is laughable.

Nope, and you can't prove that statement. You can't.

I guess I need keep repeating myself.

Most SEC and most Pac, Big, etc schedule at least one really good OOC game. It's fairly even that way. And I've never said anything but that. The point is those other 3 games for you, 2 for the rest of us. Drop one and it will always be one of those shit teams, not the good ones. As fans you wouldn't put up with 3 games against pudunk state would you? So your schedule improves. So does the overall competition across all of football.

I'd like to see a complete end to all FCS scheduling by any BCS quality team. And I'd like to see a high level of competition for my money when I pay for those season tickets. Do you really have issues with that?

 

[trojanfan12]

There is a far greater chance in CFB of an upset in conference than OOC.

No doubt about that. You beat a team senseless for 5 or 6 years in a row, they get pissed and can sneak up and bite you in the ass.

^^^THIS^^^ and it's the real reason that so many in the SEC are against a 9 game schedule.

During the Pete Carroll era (which lasted 10 years), USC lost a total of 17 games. Of those 17 games, USC lost 3 OOC games despite playing one of the more challenging OOC schedules in the country every season.

Of the 14 IC losses, 9 came in the last 4 years of the Pete Carroll era (2006-2009) which was after the conference switched to the 9 game schedule.

Additionally, after the PAC switched to the 9 game IC schedule in 2006, no PAC team finished unbeaten IC until Oregon pulled it off a couple of years ago and no team has done it since.

 

[Wild Turkey]

Report: Auburn paid players, altered grades under Gene Chizik

"New York Times and Sports Illustrated columnist Selena Roberts"

That is all you need to know this is 100% crap:

NCAA 'satisfied' with Auburn's defense against Selena Roberts story - SBNation.com

This bitch has written multiple articles on Auburn and gotten her ass handed to her every time. She graduated and has a bone to pick. Oh and BTW she is the one that tried to crucify the innocent Duke LaCrosse players also.

 

[trojanfan12]

Just like every other conference, half of the teams in the conference are cupcakes, but SEC fans try and pimp out Ole Miss and Miss St like they are national title contenders.

No matter how many times the "we have to play that oh so tough SEC schedule" myth gets debunked, they just keep trotting it out there.

 

[Wild Turkey]

If I look at objectively I can see the PAC coaches' point but I don't feel there is a divide in SOS. I would like to know their opinion on the PAC's bowl tie ins and what they plan to do about that because to me that is a bigger issue for them. The PAC's post season matchups need an upgrade badly.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

All's I got to say, as a Gamecock fan, is FUCK YOU ALL. I don't apologize for our schedule. Life is hard enough without making it harder. We're not about to drop Citadel, Furman, and South Carolina State for Oregon, Stanford, and Oklahoma.

Groove on it.

 

[trojanfan12]

you do realize that canceled games are done for certain reasons and its not about fear, its about money. A home and home holds no value in terms of actual dollars on both dates, but a neutral site game pays both opponents big money, which helps with the bottom line at the end of the year.

Getting all butthurt about being dropped only serves to make you see things skewed, look at it from a dollars and cents kind of perspective. I knew why they were doing it from the start and if you dont see that money is the biggest factor, then clearly you think more highly of MSU than other teams fans do.

Then why bother scheduling the home and homes in the first place?

 

[trojanfan12]

non-sequitur.

The SEC doesn't get that many teams up high simply because of 1 less conference game.

Actually, that's a big part of the reason why.

One of the "conference strength" criteria that is used is the number of teams that make bowl games. In a 12 game season, if a "lower tier" SEC team schedules 4 cupcakes OOC, they go into conference play needing to only win 2 more games for bowl eligibility.

Therefore, a team that finishes a season with 6 wins in an 8 game IC schedule, may end up with only 5 wins in a 9 game IC schedule. That one game can be the difference between a conference getting 8-9 teams in a bowl vs. 5-7 teams in a bowl. Thus, the conference with more bowl eligible teams appears, on the surface, to be the stronger conference.

 

[trojanfan12]

Please provide a list of all non-SEC teams that play more than one quality OOC game year in and year out?

Crickets.

USC, Stanford, UCLA and while they don't play in a conference, Notre Dame typically plays a challenging schedule every year as well.

I wonder what some of those teams have in common?

 

[trojanfan12]

"New York Times and Sports Illustrated columnist Selena Roberts"

That is all you need to know this is 100% crap:

NCAA 'satisfied' with Auburn's defense against Selena Roberts story - SBNation.com

This bitch has written multiple articles on Auburn and gotten her ass handed to her every time. She graduated and has a bone to pick. Oh and BTW she is the one that tried to crucify the innocent Duke LaCrosse players also.

Yeah, none of us have any idea whether any of that happened at Auburn or not. However, Selena Roberts reporting tends to lean towards NOT.

 

[Wild Turkey]

All's I got to say, as a Gamecock fan, is FUCK YOU ALL. I don't apologize for our schedule. Life is hard enough without making it harder. We're not about to drop Citadel, Furman, and South Carolina State for Oregon, Stanford, and Oklahoma.

Groove on it.

 

[LawDawg]

USC, Stanford, UCLA and while they don't play in a conference, Notre Dame typically plays a challenging schedule every year as well.

I wonder what some of those teams have in common?

ND has to ... they are independent. As to the other 3, that's all you got? 3 out of 130 teams? And, I am assuming what you say is true. So, we have 3 out of 130 and we get all the hand wringing going on here?

 

[trojanfan12]

If I look at objectively I can see the PAC coaches' point but I don't feel there is a divide in SOS. I would like to know their opinion on the PAC's bowl tie ins and what they plan to do about that because to me that is a bigger issue for them. The PAC's post season matchups need an upgrade badly.

I agree 1000% re: the PAC's bowl tie-in's. I'm not sure how to fix them due to contractual obligations. The potential problem that I could see would be if the PAC terminated some of those tie-in's, they could be left with very few other options and it could cost some of their teams bowl games.

 

[trojanfan12]

ND has to ... they are independent. As to the other 3, that's all you got? 3 out of 130 teams? And, I am assuming what you say is true. So, we have 3 out of 130 and we get all the hand wringing going on here?

No, those are just off the top my head. I'm too lazy to look up anyone else's schedule.

Interestingly, 3 of the 4 are all PAC teams and 3 of the 4 have never played an FCS program and are the only one's in FBS that can make that claim.

 

[WizardHawk]

If I look at objectively I can see the PAC coaches' point but I don't feel there is a divide in SOS. I would like to know their opinion on the PAC's bowl tie ins and what they plan to do about that because to me that is a bigger issue for them. The PAC's post season matchups need an upgrade badly.

There isn't a huge divide in SOS and that isn't what's at question here. If the SEC goes to 9 and drops some of that FCS garbage so will the rest of the conferences to up their SOS along with what the SEC is doing. If they are dumbing down their schedules to match the SEC then it goes without saying they would up their schedules accordingly if/when the SEC changes. Maybe it ends up that Oregon doesn't add portland state in their OOC and opt for a mid major instead because the SEC dropped their crap state team in favor of an extra conference game.

If SOS is supposed to be a bigger factor in this new playoff era then you can bet every conference/team that cares about their chances of getting invited to the playoffs will be making sure their SOS is in line with the others.

As for how big of an issue this is for the schools vs bowl tie ins, I don't think any of the Pac HC's made a stick about this. They were asked about it and gave their opinions. A few of them said the didn't think it was fair. That's about it. The rest of this was made bigger by the media that covered it because it's the dead season.

Hell the HC of my team didn't want to get involved and pretty much said all he cares about is his program right now. He wasn't alone.

 

[TexasExes98]

I like LSU, ONLY team worthy of SEC OOC discussion, the rest are weak-n-worthless. Play a 9 game IC sched or STFU!

UGA and Tennessee are pretty good about scheduling in OOC. Grant it, Tennessee tends to get the shit kicked out of them, but I definitely respect the Vols having a pair to travel out West and host some tough OOC opponents. LSU also schedules quality OOC opponents. Not all SEC teams schedule all cupcakes and not all SEC teams are afraid of traveling in OOC.

 

[TexasExes98]

Regarding playing FCS schools, yeah it's stupid and weak, but replacing FCS schools with shitty BCS programs doesn't mean anything either, especially since a lot of FCS schools can whip the weaker BCS programs and have beaten some big time programs (ahem, Michigan, UF, VA Tech, etc).....

 

[KansasSooner]

I love how Big12ers parade around their round robin schedule, such a novel concept after Nebraska and Tex a&m left for better opportunities.

Texas is the only reason that conference is still alive. When they decide to leave, it is over for the Big12.

Those two teams would still have a better chance of being relevant in the Big 12. They fucked up. Sour grapes doesn't get them better opportunities...just more embarrassment.