The Official 2014 Lions Draft Thread

[broncosmitty]

Im not neutral.

 

[Naughtymax]

Just a FYI Vegas is in the business of making money and don't give a shit who wins, they judge without bias that's how they make money....

Actually, Vegas just sets odds so that half the money is on one side and half on the other to minimize risk. The line simply reflects how average morons are betting and nothing else.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I agree we have a solid one but we need a couple more play makers to take it to Seattle's level, we're close though.

I just witnessed the greatest QB of all time with 4 great pass catchers get smoked. We don't need another pass catcher. We need a couple more studs on defense and we could rival Seattle's D. We have enough offensive firepower to win already.

Yikes Rolling -- did you just say Detroit is close enough to Seattle's defense? Outside of the DL's being close in terms of talent -- I'm not sure any of Detroit's back 7 would even start on Seattle. I can say with certainty, none of our CBs or Safeties would start in Seattle. If Levy continues to put up numbers like he did in 2013 -- he'd probably be the one exception.

Seattle's defense is arguably one of the best we've seen in our lifetime. They gave up the fewest rushing and the fewest passing TDs. They led the league in interceptions. They gave up the fewest points and the fewest yards per game.

What I do agree with is drafting more help for the defense. I think a #2 WR could be had in a middle rounds. It is way tougher to find a defensive stud, like Seattle has done in the later rounds, than it is to find someone who can get open in single coverage with reliable hands, which is what Detroit needs.

Detroit needs to find themselves a couple playmakers in the back 7. Guys who will force turnovers and give the offense a short field. I wouldn't be against Detroit going with defense on their 1st 3 picks. Find a CB, Safety and OLB. If they go with a CB -- they have to use the 1st rounder on them though (either gilbert or dennard) -- if not, roll with what you have and try to upgrade elsewhere.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Yikes Rolling -- did you just say Detroit is close enough to Seattle's defense?

No, he didn't say that our defense is "close enough" to Seattle's, not sure how you got that out of his post?

In fact he didn't even use the word "close," let alone "close enough." All he said is that we had a solid defense this year and that we need "a couple more playmakers to take it to Seattle's level."

The whole post was about drafting defensive studs to try to get up to where Seattle's defense is at, so I think you twisted up that first sentence and missed his point entirely...

 

[lionstop1]

Nobody can convince me that Seattle knew that these guys would be that good when they drafted them. This is just a matter of excellent coaching and the players responding. San Frans defense is the same way, they don't have a defense full of stars. Noweveryone wants to be like Seattle?

There's several huge CBs that detroit can get their hands on early in this draft. The Lions did beat this wonderful Seattle squad too

 

[jalopy]

I think the notion that defense wins championships is a little misleading. Talent wins championships. It doesn't matter if that talent is concentrated on offense like the Rams in the early part of the century or on defense like the Seahawks this year.
I would say cohesiveness (coaching) is just as important as overall talent. You need to look no further than the trophies won by NYG, GB, and Balt as examples. None of those teams were close to the most talented team in the league the year they won but they peaked at the right time.
The Lions have top 5 talent in the NFL but lost all confidence as things began to spiral downwards. Look no further than the case of Reggie Bush. A lot of that is coaching and hopefully the changes made there help more than any personnel changes they will be making.

 

[lionstop1]

Its funny to me. If Denver would've won this game and scored 40 points on Seattle's defense, the talk here would be that we must improve our offense can be as dominant as Denvers. It was clearly a bad match-up between the two teams as Denver wasn't nearly as physical and prepared as Seattle.

There's a reason why Avril and a few others on Seattle looked really good out there; They play well as a team and everyone knows their assignments. Thats coaching.

 

[Mebert]

The Lions are a matter of a few players away IMO from being every bit of a legit contender. We simply don't have the cap space to bring them all in via FA (another area that he and Lewand have failed miserably)

The salary cap is more consequence of having 3 top 2 picks when the CBA was way out of whack. Lewand and Mayhew had a tough situation with 3 contracts taking up the majority of cap space. The 2 choices are let Stafford, CJ, and Suh's rookie deals run out and sign them to reasonable ones, or push back the due date to get talent in now. No GM would have gone the first route, you have to try and compete. The only way the cap gets back under control is by letting Suh walk and let the back loaded contracts expire. I don't like the idea of going square 1 again.

Lions cap got crippled by being the worst at a time that the CBA punished teams for being terrible. I recognize that still putting the blame on Millen is a weak argument, but he did so bad that you can still feel the effects of it 5 years later. No GM will hit the reset button to clean up the cap though.

 

[Microwahevo]

Noweveryone wants to be like Seattle?

Its how things work.

I remember the last dominating defense I saw was the '00 Ravens. Watching them week in and week out simply punish people on D and lettin their run game and game mgr qb score enough to win. Kinda reminds me of Seattle. Problem is, that's not the only recipe for success.

Indy and N.O. won with exciting offenses. NYG and NE won with pretty much complete teams across the board. Now those are the most recent examples off the top of my head, but it still holds true. You don't have to be a certain way and conform to that to win it all. You can build your team many ways.

So I don't see why all of a sudden we need to follow Seattle's blueprint(which isn't anything new)? Why not just continue down the path were going? We have many of the pieces, just need a few more and some good coaching.

 

[jayfan]

Nobody can convince me that Seattle knew that these guys would be that good when they drafted them. This is just a matter of excellent coaching and the players responding. San Frans defense is the same way, they don't have a defense full of stars. Now everyone wants to be like Seattle?

There's several huge CBs that detroit can get their hands on early in this draft. The Lions did beat this wonderful Seattle squad too

They're a tremendously well coached team, but it's not all coaching. Great scouting is a hell of a thing. They have it. We never have.

So yes, I want very much to be like Seattle.

 

[jalopy]

They're a tremendously well coached team, but it's not all coaching. Great scouting is a hell of a thing. They have it. We never have.

So yes, I want very much to be like Seattle.

Great scouting is an underrated asset. I think the key is finding athletes with the proper motivation rather than raw talent. Some athletes are born to compete regardless of the circumstances. Others are motivated by $$$$'s.

 

[Old Lion]

Seattle had a blueprint of what they wanted to do and drafted for it. Coaching is also geared to execute that plan. We have no plan to begin with. We just picked the best available player and try to win with talent only. Players don't seem to be taught much so most do not get much better than their raw talent.


Hopefully this changes starting this year.

 

[RobBase]

Nobody can convince me that Seattle knew that these guys would be that good when they drafted them.

Sherman started 10 games as a rookie and played in all 16. By year 2 he was already arguable the best starting CB in the NFL. Pretty sure they knew what they were getting when they took him. Apparently Pete Carroll is the best of the best when it comes to college scouting and drafting. They have almost zero misses in the draft under his belt. Christine Michael can't even get on the sideline in Seattle and he's a better RB than half the starters in the NFL.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

In fact he didn't even use the word "close," let alone "close enough." All he said is that we had a solid defense this year and that we need "a couple more playmakers to take it to Seattle's level."

My apology -- He didn't say "close enough". Here is the exact statement I was referring to. As you can see -- he did state Detroit was "close" to Seattle and if we add a couple play makers we could reach Seattle's level.

I agree we have a solid one but we need a couple more play makers to take it to Seattle's level, we're close though.

I'm not trying to be negative. But we have to take baby steps before we start talking about the Lions defense in the same breath as a team considered one of the best all-time for their 2013 accomplishments.

Detroit was much improved against the run this year. Seattle had the perfect storm of draft picks to put together the defense they have. If you look at their back 7 -- the guy who has been in the NFL the longest is Earl Thomas and Cam Chancellor (4 years each). The rest of their starters in the back 7 only have 2 or 3 years experience. That is absurd how young they are and how good they are.

For Detroit to become like the Seahawks -- they'd have to hit on multiple late round picks, who turn into studs.

 

[RobBase]

Its funny to me. If Denver would've won this game and scored 40 points on Seattle's defense, the talk here would be that we must improve our offense can be as dominant as Denvers.

What round was Decker drafted in again? Round 3. Just like the best rookie WR last year was. Yep yep.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

There's a reason why Avril and a few others on Seattle looked really good out there; They play well as a team and everyone knows their assignments. Thats coaching.

The key to Seattle's defense is Richard Sherman. He shuts down half the field by himself, giving all the talented players they have on defense to take care of the rest.

When you have the most talent as a group defensively, as well as arguably the best CB in the game right now -- It makes for an unbelievably tough group to score on.

I think if you took Sherman off the team -- Seattle's defense would be good, but nowhere near what they because of him. If Detroit can find a CB that can shut down half the field like that -- Imagine how good the DL would be?

 

[RobBase]

The key to Seattle's defense is Richard Sherman. He shuts down half the field by himself, giving all the talented players they have on defense to take care of the rest.

Absolutely correct. Seattle plays D the same way Sparty does. Go 1 on 1 outside with beast CB's and put everyone else in the box to stop the run and attack the QB. And look where it's gotten them both.

Dennard at 10 please.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Sherman started 10 games as a rookie and played in all 16. By year 2 he was already arguable the best starting CB in the NFL. Pretty sure they knew what they were getting when they took him. Apparently Pete Carroll is the best of the best when it comes to college scouting and drafting. They have almost zero misses in the draft under his belt. Christine Michael can't even get on the sideline in Seattle and he's a better RB than half the starters in the NFL.

If they knew what they were getting they would have taken him with their 1st round pick, because there's know way in hell they would have gambled on someone else drafting him first. Clearly they thought higher of James Carpenter, John Moffitt, K.J. Wright, and our own Kris Durham than they did of Sherman at the time, because they drafted all of those guys before they took Sherman.

Also, the perception that the good and great GMs never miss on players is very off-base, imo. You say he has almost zero misses under his belt, but look at the 2011 draft right above- Carpenter has been underwhelming, Moffitt is out of football, Wright is an average-to-good starter (not bad for a 4th round pick at all) and Durham was cut after just one season. That's 3 misses in his first four picks. Yet he still had a great draft because he found talent in the later rounds, and struck gold with Sherman in particular.

I'm not saying that their front office talent and control structure and operations don't totally blow ours away, because they do, but every GM has swings and misses in every draft- it's just part of the beast. And that's all I'm saying- that they all miss, every year. Mayhew misses on more than the upper-level guys do, but he's also better at it, from a league-wide perspective, than he gets credit for from a portion of our regular posters...

 

[RobBase]

If they knew what they were getting they would have taken him with their 1st round pick, because there's know way in hell they would have gambled on someone else drafting him first. Clearly they thought higher of James Carpenter, John Moffitt, K.J. Wright, and our own Kris Durham than they did of Sherman at the time, because they drafted all of those guys before they took Sherman.

Disagree. Scouts have a feel on where other teams have guys. Seattle was just smarter about Sherman than other teams. Like when the Lions waited to take Levy or Warford in round 3 for example.

 

[themuzzer]

Seattle drafts guys for situational needs not positional needs.....Browner was the second best CB on Seattle and he's been suspended for awhile now, Maxwell took over the reigns and it doesn't stop, it's the scheme and everyone on the 2nd team can step in fill a hole without missing a beat.....I saw a complete defense on sunday, Detroit isn't even close...

I think Detroits problem is more of a coaching thing, There's talent no doubt but lack of coaching is crushing our window for success.