The Official 2014 Lions Draft Thread

[Microwahevo]

I think that's a pretty harsh assessment of Sims, and one without much merit as far as I can tell. I don't have access to PFF rankings, but from what I've seen in the past Sims has always graded out very well. I can't recall right off the top of my head, but it was either 2011 or 2012 that he graded out as the 4th best left guard in the league.

Maybe I'm missing something, but Sims has been pretty damn solid from what I've seen...

I don't get it either. Sims has been a solid pice of the O-line. He was the first real piece we added that made our O-line start to get better.

 

[Microwahevo]

I'd take Watkins and his superior speed and burst over Lee (whom I like) any day of the week.

I like Lee as well, and agree with RobBase that he had a down year b/c of his knee last year. That being said, I'd still take Watkins over Lee. He not only is faster and bigger, but he can run over defenders as well.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I think that's a pretty harsh assessment of Sims, and one without much merit as far as I can tell. I don't have access to PFF rankings, but from what I've seen in the past Sims has always graded out very well. I can't recall right off the top of my head, but it was either 2011 or 2012 that he graded out as the 4th best left guard in the league.

Maybe I'm missing something, but Sims has been pretty damn solid from what I've seen...

How.does that statement come without merit exactly? Because you disagree with it? I dont recall where I read it but he was referred to as the."weak link" on the line. I don't recall one time during the season where I ever heard anyone praise him for a.great block or an excellent job against top defenders. You heard a lot about Warford doing that, but never Sims.

Am I to assume you want to replace Raiola at center with someone else? So we will take out the.guy who rated out as what was it, #2 at his position with a guy.who didn't rate anywhere near that high? If he did I would have thought we'd have heard ablot about our awesome combo at guard.

If he is so good and worth what's he's paid then why are we talking about drafting a tackle as a good idea? Someone has to be replaced. Somehow every single year we get folks advocating taking a guy they perceive as blue chip to replace an excellent player where the.improvement is minimal instead of a blue chip replacing a complete dud.

People have hated and complained about how stupid BPA is and yet we are here discussing exactly that. Are you telling me there isnt another hole on this team we cant fill that offers a more pronounced level of improvement? If you can't resignDDelmas you have a gaping hole at safety. What would that be, Calvin Pryor over Don Carey? Watkins, Lee, Evans over Buerlson? Palmer or Whitehad over Barr or Mack? Seriously? Instead we are going to draft another tackle so we can try Reiff out at center?

 

[Mebert]

How.does that statement come without merit exactly? Because you disagree with it? I dont recall where I read it but he was referred to as the."weak link" on the line. I don't recall one time during the season where I ever heard anyone praise him for a.great block or an excellent job against top defenders. You heard a lot about Warford doing that, but never Sims.

Am I to assume you want to replace Raiola at center with someone else? So we will take out the.guy who rated out as what was it, #2 at his position with a guy.who didn't rate anywhere near that high? If he did I would have thought we'd have heard ablot about our awesome combo at guard.

If he is so good and worth what's he's paid then why are we talking about drafting a tackle as a good idea? Someone has to be replaced. Somehow every single year we get folks advocating taking a guy they perceive as blue chip to replace an excellent player where the.improvement is minimal instead of a blue chip replacing a complete dud.

People have hated and complained about how stupid BPA is and yet we are here discussing exactly that. Are you telling me there isnt another hole on this team we cant fill that offers a more pronounced level of improvement? If you can't resignDDelmas you have a gaping hole at safety. What would that be, Calvin Pryor over Don Carey? Watkins, Lee, Evans over Buerlson? Palmer or Whitehad over Barr or Mack? Seriously? Instead we are going to draft another tackle so we can try Reiff out at center?

I am confused. It started off arguing against one point, but then it rambles into 3 or 4 other points that different users made. Yet there is no call back to who made them. It is like a list of counterpoints that only makes sense if you had just read the entire thread.

 

[Kreton]

I am not sure who I want at this point. FA and resignings will help mold that along with the combine. The one thing I know for sure is that I don't want Clowney unless he falls to us in the 7th round. This guy seems like he is going to be a problem. His work ethic has been called into question more times than I can count, he's been getting arrested and the Lions cant afford that type of crap. There are times where it makes sense to take a chance on a guy but with our D line looking to be great and him being a problem I dont think the risk/reward is really worth it.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I am confused. It started off arguing against one point, but then it rambles into 3 or 4 other points that different users made. Yet there is no call back to who made them. It is like a list of counterpoints that only makes sense if you had just read the entire thread.

So you are advocating that I specifically call out the different posters who have made comments to the effect of what I said? Who the fuck cares which specific ones made them. You've certainly been around long enough to have read them. I'm not saying those thoughts were bad, stupid, silly, or anything to that affect at all.

What I said was that drafting a tackle and then shifting other players into a position they havent played before doesnt make any sense. That is effectively the exact same thing as the BPA approach, and half the board complained about that. The points I made, which should have been clear to everyone, except maybe you, all related to the drafting of a tackle in the first round and the subsequent effect that would have on the team.

My post followed each thought right down the line of the impact and value IMO of drafting a tackle. If you found it confusing or rambling well thats not my problem you cant follow along.

 

[Mebert]

So you are advocating that I specifically call out the different posters who have made comments to the effect of what I said? Who the fuck cares which specific ones made them. You've certainly been around long enough to have read them. I'm not saying those thoughts were bad, stupid, silly, or anything to that affect at all.

What I said was that drafting a tackle and then shifting other players into a position they havent played before doesnt make any sense. That is effectively the exact same thing as the BPA approach, and half the board complained about that. The points I made, which should have been clear to everyone, except maybe you, all related to the drafting of a tackle in the first round and the subsequent effect that would have on the team.

My post followed each thought right down the line of the impact and value IMO of drafting a tackle. If you found it confusing or rambling well thats not my problem you cant follow along.

I don't care for Lee I think he was hurt more than just this year. I don't think the majority of people want a tackle, only that they would take one if all the options they like are gone. I am not a huge fan of Ebron. I don't think there is a CB worth the 10 pick in this draft. I don't think anyone wants to get rid of Raiola, only believe we need to get his eventual replacement. Sims is good, he just went from best lineman to worst, due to others getting better, not so much because of a decline in his skills. Bacon is the best breakfast meat.

 

[Clayton]

Dennard > Gilbert and I expect him to go first. I realize Walter Football has Gilbert rated as the top corner but I disagree. Dennard has experience in a pro style D and he's more aggressive than Gilbert. He also shines in a conference that runs more than it passes vs. Gilbert who plays in the pass heavy Big 12. I want an overall balanced CB if we take one at 10. Gilbert also has disciplinary issues so I don't think he fits the profile of the kind of player Caldwell prefers

The tape on Dennard is pretty awful from what Ive gathered from various sites. He commits pass interference on every play. Sometime quite blatantly. Imo, both him and Gilbert look like 2nd round prospects because there is upside to both but both have issues with their game. Gilbert has oddly long arms and hands but seems charmin soft as a tackler. The Rams really need a CB and the Lions probably do as well and no one is worth taking in the 10-15 range. Imo, the Lions are a prime 'trade down' candidate but I think Ebron might be the guy they go with.

 

[Thruthefog]

Who is losing their job? Waddle was exceptionally good at RT last year and could secure that position very well for years to come. Are we moving Reiff inside?

I don't think trying him at center makes sense at all. If he doesn't excel there then what? For as much as we hate the guy Ravioli did a great job last year and we don't have an upgrade replacement ready to go.

If we go OT than Reiff needs to play G and replace the very, very, very average Sims and his way too large of a cap hit for his talent. That $ can a long ways in FA towards adding other talent. It's enough to give you the top FA kicker and help towards resigning our own FA's.

Holy crap. You make one response to my post and all hell breaks loose. Funny shit.

First of all, I've never advocated moving Reiff to center. Had to get that out of the way.

Second of all, Reiff and Waddle did admirable jobs last season. They also both stayed healthy most of the season. But I have a question. Who behind them do you feel good about plugging into one of the tackle spots? I hope the Lions OL can stay as healthy as it did last season, but I wouldn't want to place a season in which the Lions are expected to make the playoffs on the back of hope.

It always depends on what happens before the Lions pick, but I expect a couple of QBs to go. I don't expect Watkins to be available. If an OT falls to the Lions that could replace Reiff or Waddle and make the OL better in the process, I say go for it. Offensive tackles don't grow on trees. If Reiff can move to left guard, so much the better. But it gives the Lions serious depth on the OL that they haven't had in ages.

I get that the Lions can improve themselves much more at WR. But if they can't have Watkins, I'd rather add insurance to the OL. If this draft is as deep at WR as everyone is saying, the Lions should be able to find someone in the 2nd.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I don't care for Lee I think he was hurt more than just this year.

I know very little about Lee or his talent. I take the position of Switzerland on him.

I don't think the majority of people want a tackle, only that they would take one if all the options they like are gone.

I can respect that. I personally would go with Ebron, Pryor, or even Mosley before taking a tackle. Even if its a bit of a reach. Trading back would be ideal if the top options were gone and if one of the top tackles was still sitting there finding a partner for that trade gets easier.

I am not a huge fan of Ebron.

While I would rather snag the TE from Iowa in the middle rounds I can be happy with Ebron if it came to that. Put him out there and even a FA WR and its a match up nightmare for defenses.

I don't think there is a CB worth the 10 pick in this draft.

Absolutely agree.

I don't think anyone wants to get rid of Raiola, only believe we need to get his eventual replacement.

Correct. The guy is an asshole but played better last year than ever before. Definitely time to bring in some competition for the spot and groom his successor. He would win the job this year and be very inexpensive. He played for $1m last season. Thats the same amount he would be paid with the vet minimum for his tenure plus the allowable $65k signing bonus teams can give vets for the minimum salary benefit. He costs only $635k against the cap. If he loses the job to a rookie thats fine. We've got an excellent back up.

Sims is good, he just went from best lineman to worst, due to others getting better, not so much because of a decline in his skills.

Fair enough. But that still makes him the weak link and he's an UFA after this year. His cap hit isnt small. Despite being signed in 2010 and before all the bigger contracts in the past four years for interior lineman his deal is the 22nd highest paid guard in the league. IMO he is simply not worth that.

Bacon is the best breakfast meat

Yes. But restaurants undercook it. It should be crispy.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Ebron is the best offensive threat in the draft. I hope he lasts until #10.

What am I missing on Eric Ebron? I can't say I know a whole lot about the guy, but he only had 3 touchdowns last year on 55 catches. I looked up his 40 time and they say it is in the high 4.5's to mid 4.6 and he isn't that big for a TE at 6'4".

Is he a great route runner? Or does he have unbelievable hands? Someone give me the scoop on Ebron. To take a TE in the top 10 -- He just has to be an absolute freak, like Vernon Davis, when he ran a 4.4 40.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Dr Eviler,

I dont see how anyone doesn't see that the Lions are still weak at CB. I'll give Slay a pass but I'd rather think of him as our #2 guy. Ive never been real high on Houston as he is average at best in my eyes and very inconsistent. His ball skills suck too! Bentley and the rest of them don't have a very high ceiling IMO. I think they get a little better.

One thing is for sure: We dont have the guys to match up with what the Bears and Packers will be coming in with next year. Plus, I could easily see where either team could take another Wr out of this deep draft. Especially the Packers.

Personally, I'd really like to see the Lions press hard for DRC in FA and let him and Slay start or draft Gilbert and let all of them battle it out in camp.

I didnt say I dont think we are weak at CB. We are weak in several areas. I often intermix the business of football in my evaluations. The Lions choose to give Houston a big contract. It's one we cant get away from for a few years. At one time he played at a level where the clown show felt he was worth that deal. I just think that before we relegate him to a very pricey nickel back we see if he can return to form. As a result I would rather see us spend that pick in other areas where we are also weak.

I am all for finding some CB help in free agency. While another large financial committment at that position isn't ideal its preferable to missing the chance to fill other areas that from both a business position and an improvement position I would rather we address.

 

[Mebert]

Well played Dr. Evil-er.....well played

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

First of all, I've never advocated moving Reiff to center. Had to get that out of the way.

Who behind them do you feel good about plugging into one of the tackle spots? I hope the Lions OL can stay as healthy as it did last season, but I wouldn't want to place a season in which the Lions are expected to make the playoffs on the back of hope.

Didnt mean to imply that you did. I assumed we werent taking a tackle with first round top 10 pick so that we could improve our depth. I dont want to see another first round pick sitting the bench when we could be a legit competitor with some good offseason moves.

Believe it or not I would actually offer Fox a one year vet minimum deal. While he has certainly had health problems he would be extremely inexpensive and would be a quality back up (if he can stay healthy if called upon to play). And now for the rest of that thought and the almost certain backlash that will come with it........I would cut Hilliard and go with a younger player if Fox signs a one year deal.

If Reiff can move to left guard, so much the better.

I can get on board with that thought because it means that Sims would be released. I simply feel that the cap savings could be allocated elsewhere to bring in an impact player where the overall team gets better that way. I am not so much thinking individual players but does it make the team better.

The savings from Sims contract would go a long ways toward bringing in DRC (obviously not all of it but probably half and we should have the $ to complete the rest. Plus remember I cut Hilliard above for more savings). Reiff at LG is an improvement over Sims to begin with and DRC would make the CB group much better. We can still get a very good WR in the second. I would say the "team" just got a whole lot better with those moves.

 

[jdwills126]

10th pick is interesting as a slider could fall if enough QBs are taken.

Sliders I would take at 10 if they fell - Clowney, Robinson. or Matthews.

Watkins would be my choice and he is falling in enough drafts to not call him a slider.

1. Sammy Watkins great speed and size an exciting player that would make teams scheme for him.

2. Khalil Mack - Barr may be the more popular choice but I think this guy is going to rock from day one.

3. Anthony Barr - Very good OLB would not be disappointed in either Mack or Barr. Been a long time since the Lions had a force at OLB.

4.Trade Down - As a team may want the best QB still available and their is not a guy left I think could not get equal value later in the draft.

Evans = Lee

Lewan = Martin

Ebron = Amaro

 

[jdwills126]

I didnt say I dont think we are weak at CB. We are weak in several areas.

Dennard = Gilbert = Verrett = Robinson

No Patrick Peterson in this draft. If you can wait for a CB I would wait. Not that the Lions do not need a good one but I see some guys that may be good but won't be that way year one.

 

[tpaulus_2]

How.does that statement come without merit exactly? Because you disagree with it?

No, not because I disagree, but rather because Sims isn't average. He's not an All-Pro, but every time I've seen his grades listed in an article it's been nothing but good stuff.

I know we were just discussing hypothetical stuffs about moving Reiff, but I had to stick up for Sims a bit there. He's been a good guard for us, no more, no less... After the years of crap we had at his spot before he got here perhaps I'm a bit sensitive to anyone hating on him?

I dont recall where I read it but he was referred to as the."weak link" on the line. I don't recall one time during the season where I ever heard anyone praise him for a.great block or an excellent job against top defenders. You heard a lot about Warford doing that, but never Sims.

I don't recall a single time since he's been here of "Man, Sims is getting beat," or "Wow, Sims just whiffed on that one..." Generally it's a good thing when you don't hear a guard's name through the season- Warford is a bad comparison because he's one of the very few guards good enough to merit the time of day on a televised broadcast. Most don't reach that kind of exposure level.

Am I to assume you want to replace Raiola at center with someone else?

Not right away. After the season he put together last year I'm very comfortable with bringing him back. I like the idea of continuing to develop Rodney Austin behind him.

If he is so good and worth what's he's paid then why are we talking about drafting a tackle as a good idea?

There's no connetion between Sims being good (which he is) and worth what he's paid (which he is) and drafting one of the top tackles if they fall to us. Both Lewan and Matthews look to be better than Reiff or Waddle, so that's basically why we're having the discussions. Kind of a "what if" scenario. Not related to Sim's level of play whatsoever, though.

People have hated and complained about how stupid BPA is and yet we are here discussing exactly that. Are you telling me there isnt another hole on this team we cant fill that offers a more pronounced level of improvement? If you can't resignDDelmas you have a gaping hole at safety. What would that be, Calvin Pryor over Don Carey? Watkins, Lee, Evans over Buerlson? Palmer or Whitehad over Barr or Mack? Seriously? Instead we are going to draft another tackle so we can try Reiff out at center?

You could have saved a bunch of time there and simply said "I think we should draft for need, not talent" and made exactly the same point in a lot less words...

 

[broncosmitty]

Cutting Rob Sims makes absolutely no sense to me. He's not even in the Top Twenty highest paid guards. Creating problems that need to be fixed seems like a bad idea.

 

[lionstop1]

TrustmeImright,

Ebron is a phenomenal athlete at the TE position. He's closer to 6'5 than 6'4 and 245 lbs. He had 69 catches, 3 tds and 947 yards on the year. He can run after the catch and make guys miss. He's versatile and he lined up wide a lot this year. He's projected a top 15 prospect. The knock on him is that his skills need refined and he could bulk up some.

 

[ShadowJ20]

I disagree on a TE at 10...unless he's the second coming of Veron Davis. I think the best move for the Lions would be to trade down and acquire a few more picks. Then draft Jordan Matthews in the late 1st round (depends on how fast he'll run at the combine). Watkins and Lee seem to be guys that picture themselves at being NO.1 guys. That will never happen in DET. Matthews on the other hand has already acknowledged that CJ is the best.

Jordan Matthew Highlights...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3dD3fgfVms]Jordan Matthews Highlights - YouTube[/ame]