The NBA rookies Thread

[Gman]

Everything except fixing the shot.

You don't do that during the season.

The big question to me is... why hasn't that shot been fixed any point before now?

What I'd worry about as a fan is... maybe Lonzo (and his dad) have been resistant to that idea in the past and will probaby be resistant to the idea in the future. I say the earlier Lonzo gets broke, the better.

The worst thing that could happen is that Lonzo muddles his way to being a 30% (or so) 3 pt shooter and settles with that being 'good enough'... and the shot never changes, forever putting a ceiling on what could have been more.

And let's be real... Lonzo is already shooting at a historically poor pace. What have they got to lose?

 

[Gman]

As I posted earlier, he's not the first player to have an ugly shot and at least we can see if he can adjust the shot so that it works, to some degree, at the NBA level.

True, but IMHO Lonzo's shooting form is poor even amongst the company of other ugly shots.

 

[tlance]

Yes and no. For better or worse, during the season, games are when he will get the most opportunity to shoot. It gives the Lakers a chance to figure out how much his shot really needs to change.

He's not the first guy to have an ugly shot. If the shots go in, then no one cares about form. If his shot was falling, everyone would be comparing him to Jamaal Wilkes and Reggie Miller.

For now, Luke seems content to let him figure it out and it doesn't seem to be effecting the rest of his game.

Personally, I think he is going to need to fix his form because I don't think he can develop any consistency with that form. In the NBA, guys close out a lot faster than in college and if he starts hitting that shot consistently, teams will adjust and close out faster on him rather than let him shoot.

His form definitely needs to change. Can't do that in games.

In fact, when players I was working on form with played pick up games, I always told them not to shoot. When players are changing their form, it takes thousands of reps to groove it. When Shooting in games, players revert back to their old form that feels more natural. Every game shot taken with the old form makes the process take longer and longer.

Shooting in games now isn't going to hurt him, but it won't help either because the form needs to change. I am 100% convinced of that now.

 

[Mecca]

The big question to me is... why hasn't that shot been fixed any point before now?

What I'd worry about as a fan is... maybe Lonzo (and his dad) have been resistant to that idea in the past and will probaby be resistant to the idea in the future. I say the earlier Lonzo gets broke, the better.

The worst thing that could happen is that Lonzo muddles his way to being a 30% (or so) 3 pt shooter and settles with that being 'good enough'... and the shot never changes, forever putting a ceiling on what could have been more.

And let's be real... Lonzo is already shooting at a historically poor pace. What have they got to lose?

All fair points.

I think the main reason it hasn't been tinkered with is because they didn't have to.

He was bigger, faster, more skilled than High School Pg's.

He was bigger than most College pg's.

So, he had no problem getting his shot off.

He is still bigger than most pro pg's. But, that doesn't help as much because some of those guys are Waaaaaay faster and way more athletic.

His advantages are down to unselfishness and elite court vision in the NBA.

I think messing with his shot will just add to the chaos of trying to adapt.

He's already thinking too much.

 

[trojanfan12]

The big question to me is... why hasn't that shot been fixed any point before now?

Because it's always gone in. In his one year at UCLA his overall FG% was 55.1% and he shot 41.2%.

And let's be real... Lonzo is already shooting at a historically poor pace. What have they got to lose?

They risk fucking up his shot even worse. Not necessarily that his percentage could get much worse, but more that it screw him up to the point that it becomes harder to fix.

 

[tlance]

True, but IMHO Lonzo's shooting form is poor even amongst the company of other ugly shots.

It is ugly and slow.

I thought maybe he would be able to get away with a slow release as a pass first PG, but it doesn't look like he can. He may be rushing to get his shot off because he knows it is too slow.

 

[trojanfan12]

True, but IMHO Lonzo's shooting form is poor even amongst the company of other ugly shots.

lol Definitely true. It's the ugliest I've ever seen.

 

[tlance]

All fair points.

I think the main reason it hasn't been tinkered with is because they didn't have to.

He was bigger, faster, more skilled than High School Pg's.

He was bigger than most College pg's.

So, he had no problem getting his shot off.

He is still bigger than most pro pg's. But, that doesn't help as much because some of those guys are Waaaaaay faster and way more athletic.

His advantages are down to unselfishness and elite court vision in the NBA.

I think messing with his shot will just add to the chaos of trying to adapt.

He's already thinking too much.

Definitely.

When I say he needs to change it, I mean in the off season. Definitely not now.

 

[Mecca]

True, but IMHO Lonzo's shooting form is poor even amongst the company of other ugly shots.

lol Definitely true. It's the ugliest I've ever seen.

Bruh?

Not the ugliest...

And some Dude's just can't be helped...lol

 

[Gman]

Because it's always gone in. In his one year at UCLA his overall FG% was 55.1% and he shot 41.2%.

Yeah... I get that...

At the same time, Lonzo and his dad always had "NBA star" as the end goal... building a brand and what not.

For a good basketball mind, it shouldn't have been hard to foresee problems with his form at the top level of competition.

They risk fucking up his shot even worse. Not necessarily that his percentage could get much worse, but more that it screw him up to the point that it becomes harder to fix.

This point I don't understand.

From what I know about basketball, the shooting form is well over half the battle. Get that form down, the rest follows as night after day.

I fully get that there would be growing pains. And that he would almost certainly get worse before he gets better...

But that's why you do it now! Don't let him start to make small scale improvements on a faulty foundation and think things are better or ok... nip that sh!t in the bud while it's clear that his form is the issue.

Then, even during the growing pains, Lonzo and the Lakers can tell themselves with perfect accuracy that they breaks eggs now so they can have an omelet later.

 

[trojanfan12]

Shooting in games now isn't going to hurt him, but it won't help either because the form needs to change. I am 100% convinced of that now.

I'm pretty convinced too. However, if memory serves (it was a long time ago, so it might not...lol) Jamaal Wilkes (who is the guy that Lonzo's form reminds me of most) didn't start off all that great either (although his start was definitely better than Lonzo). He had to adjust the speed of his shot as well, but never changed his form.

Got good enough that the late, great Chick Hearn used to call his jumper a "20 foot layup."

Not saying he can duplicate that (don't think he can), but the Lakers may as well ride it out and see if he can. Not a lot of choice at this point. lol

 

[trojanfan12]

Bruh?

Not the ugliest...

And some Dude's just can't be helped...lol

I stand corrected. lol

 

[trojanfan12]

From what I know about basketball, the shooting form is well over half the battle. Get that form down, the rest follows as night after day.

Yes and no. There are some ugly shots that you fix and some that you don't.

Jamaal Wilkes and Reggie Miller had slow, ugly shots, never fixed their form and are 2 of the greatest pure shooters in league history.

Magic and Jason Kidd had ugly shots, changed their form and became respectable shooters.

Lonzo has shot the ball this way for his entire life. Up to now, he has made it work at every level. He gets this season to see if he can make it work. If he can, which I doubt, then you leave him alone. If he can't, then you spend the off-season fixing that form.

I see shooting as more art than science (although there is a certain science to it). End of the day, it comes down to one question, does the shot go in at an acceptable rate or not? Right now, for Lonzo, it's not. If that continues through the season, you fix it.

 

[Gman]

Fair enough, @trojanfan12... we'll see how it plays out.

 

[trojanfan12]

Fair enough, @trojanfan12... we'll see how it plays out.

Yeah. Like I said, I think he's going to need to fix it. But not during the season.

Meantime, I'll take the good things that he's doing (pretty much everything else) and just cover my eyes when he shoots like the rest of my fellow Lakers fans. lol

 

[bksballer89]

Embiid 'loves' Lonzo Ball despite trash talk

 

[larryjohn]

The big question to me is... why hasn't that shot been fixed any point before now?
What I'd worry about as a fan is... maybe Lonzo (and his dad) have been resistant to that idea in the past and will probaby be resistant to the idea in the future. I say the earlier Lonzo gets broke, the better.
The worst thing that could happen is that Lonzo muddles his way to being a 30% (or so) 3 pt shooter and settles with that being 'good enough'... and the shot never changes, forever putting a ceiling on what could have been more.
And let's be real... Lonzo is already shooting at a historically poor pace. What have they got to lose?

A couple of years ago he spent a few weeks changing his shot. Then he went to an AAU tournament (I think it was AAU) -- tried it -- he didn't shoot well -- and went back to his old form.

I think he will shoot 3s better over time -- but with his current form, I think he will always struggle to shoot while in motion in the mid-range or off the pick & roll.

 

[Gman]

A couple of years ago he spent a few weeks changing his shot. Then he went to an AAU tournament (I think it was AAU) -- tried it -- he didn't shoot well -- and went back to his old form.

Thanks for info. Shame they couldn't have worked through the growing pains at that point...

What's Ray Allen up to nowadays... ? The Lakers should hire him next offseason to do nothing but break Lonzo down and build him back up.

Ray should adopt the Pai Mei technique from the Kill Bill franchise... literally kick Lonzo's @ss until he does sh!t right:

 

[trojanfan12]

Thanks for info. Shame they couldn't have worked through the growing pains at that point...

What's Ray Allen up to nowadays... ? The Lakers should hire him next offseason to do nothing but break Lonzo down and build him back up.

Ray should adopt the Pai Mei technique from the Kill Bill franchise... literally kick Lonzo's @ss until he does sh!t right:

Not a bad idea. Ray Allen is only arguably the greatest pure shooter ever, pretty sure he could teach Lonzo a thing or three.

Magic learned to become a decent 3 point shooter by challenging Michael Cooper (the Lakers best 3 point shooter at the time) to contests for money...said the money part got him holding his own before it got too expensive.

I wonder how much of Lonzo's money Ray Allen would take before Lonzo improved? lol

 

[Gman]

I wonder how much of Lonzo's money Ray Allen would take before Lonzo improved? lol

All of it. Lonzo would be out in the streets...

... so would 95+% of NBA players, in fairness... even with Jesus being out of game shape.