The NBA rookies Thread

[flyerhawk]

Straight pimpin for my boy with this one...

Ben Simmons might be the best all-around rookie ever

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Straight pimpin for my boy with this one...

Ben Simmons might be the best all-around rookie ever

Those Lebron, Magic and KAJ fellas were puuuuuuuurty nifty too.

Shaq as well.

Stats vs. Impact

 

[LogicMan]

But regardless of that, my point wasn't that Simmons is or is not better.

Actually yes it was.

 

[flyerhawk]

Actually yes it was.

Great rebuttal.

 

[LogicMan]

Current PER leaders among qualified rookies...

https://SportsHoopla.com/yczuwtkq

Bell and Simmons leading the pack. Bell obviously is a bit of an asterisk since he's only played 97 minutes.

Not terribly surprising that the bigger players are at the top of the list.

I was surprised to see Collins stat line was that good.

This is how you entered the link in the thread

 

[Sparhawk]

Looking forward to the LAL-PHI game tonight.

 

[LogicMan]

Straight pimpin for my boy with this one...

Ben Simmons might be the best all-around rookie

and you literally just posted this and then admitted it. So yes, you have an agenda.

 

[flyerhawk]

This is how you entered the link in the thread

That was a statement of fact. Bell and Simmons are leading that statistical category. PER is generally viewed as an effective metric of measuring the overall play of players, although not perfect. If you don't think that is relevant that's fine.

You are free to offer up other stats if you like.

 

[flyerhawk]

and you literally just posted this and then admitted it. So yes, you have an agenda.

Well of course I am biased towards Simmons. I thought that was pretty clear in the previous dozens of posts I have in this thread.

I can favor one player and still admit that others are doing really well.

You responded by saying "What stands out is Jayson Tatum" which seemed odd.

 

[LogicMan]

All I am suggesting is you look beyond the hype. kevin was writing not too long ago that Ball was the greatest rookie to come out in this years draft.

Simmons is going to be very good, very good. But Tatum is shooting, driving and doing ISO moves at a crazy level and in crunch time, shooting 50% from 3pt line. The dude's defense is crazy . He is not yet being compared because of the Fult/Simmons/Ball love affairs but when you peel it back and watch his ISO game, his ability to hit shots at every spot on the court, you will come around

 

[LogicMan]

You responded by saying "What stands out is Jayson Tatum" which seemed odd.

Watch the clips. Watch the crunch time game. 19 year old kid that already shoots 3's like a 5 year vet. Stats are behind me. Whats odd is that being a great shooter is not part of your comparison with Simmons. Simmons is not a great shooter

 

[knowyourenemy]

Actually yes it was.

Simmons is better than Tatum. I'm not sure why this is controversial or why anyone should be afraid to say it.

 

[knowyourenemy]

All I am suggesting is you look beyond the hype. kevin was writing not too long ago that Ball was the greatest rookie to come out in this years draft.

Simmons is going to be very good, very good. But Tatum is shooting, driving and doing ISO moves at a crazy level and in crunch time, shooting 50% from 3pt line. The dude's defense is crazy . He is not yet being compared because of the Fult/Simmons/Ball love affairs but when you peel it back and watch his ISO game, his ability to hit shots at every spot on the court, you will come around

The top two rookies this year are Simmons and Tatum. Ball is all hype. Fultz needs to get on the court and play before anyone even gives him a second thought. Guys like Markkanen and Mitchell and Smith will have decent numbers but they just can't touch Simmons. Tatum can't really touch Simmons -- but he's got a completely different argument in his favor for ROY than Simmons has. At least, for now.

 

[LogicMan]

The top two rookies this year are Simmons and Tatum

Agreed. This is why I asked some of the posters to compare high quality shooting vs volume of shots to increase the PER

 

[flyerhawk]

Watch the clips. Watch the crunch time game. 19 year old kid that already shoots 3's like a 5 year vet. Stats are behind me. Whats odd is that being a great shooter is not part of your comparison with Simmons. Simmons is not a great shooter

Tatum is more certainly a much better shooter than Simmons. No question about that. I'd say it is HIGHLY unlikely that he is going to continue to shoot at a near 50% rate from the arc but I guess we'll see.

Simmons definitely needs to get his outside shot working at some point. But given the fact that he is scoring 18 points a game while taking almost zero shots a game out of the paint, while handling the ball more than almost anyone else in the league, suggests that he has some pretty unique and impressive skills.

Tatum definitely looks very good and if we were judge players based on their play so far this year I would say he is the best rookie of the 2017 draft class.

Arguing that the stats are behind you is, well, pretty strange. Simmons score 40% more points a game. He has nearly double the rebounds per game. And he has about 4 times as many assists per game. You are free to speculate that if Tatum were given the ball more he would do more but that is pure speculation on your part.

 

[LogicMan]

suggests that he has some pretty unique and impressive skills.

absolutely. But using PER alone is flawed. Bad teams have to play their top picks, good teams dont............but yet the best team in the NBA (record) still are using tatum and doing so in crunch time bacuse he defies the norm. Kid will still grow once he is out of his teens so I expect him to be the same size as Simmons when he gets to Simmons age.....................but he already is multi tooled and plays shut down defense

 

[flyerhawk]

absolutely. But using PER alone is flawed. Bad teams have to play their top picks, good teams dont............but yet the best team in the NBA (record) still are using tatum and doing so in crunch time bacuse he defies the norm. Kid will still grow once he is out of his teens so I expect him to be the same size as Simmons when he gets to Simmons age.....................but he already is multi tooled and plays shut down defense

The Sixers are a bad team? Ok.

You think Tatum is going to grow 3 inches in the next 2 years?

Maybe Tatum will be a Hall of Famer and Simmons will fizzle out and never be a good player. Anything is possible.

We can only measure them based on their performance up to this point. And so far Simmons is pretty universally considered the presumptive RoY. That doesn't take away from what Tatum is doing. It is pretty impressive. Certainly RoY level play.

 

[larryjohn]

Those Lebron, Magic and KAJ fellas were puuuuuuuurty nifty too.Shaq as well.
Stats vs. Impact

Oscar just missed averaging a triple double as a rookie. (including 30ppg ... but missed with 9.7apg) His 2nd year was his "averaged triple double" year.

 

[LogicMan]

And so far Simmons is pretty universally considered the presumptive RoY.

Agreed. This has been the general feeling al year. And if he wins it certainly is not bad. I asked you to sort the data so that you could see that now that the season has started, and we looks at skill levels, we have someone climbing up the ranks based on pure quality of his play. He was not hyped up but eventually people will need to ignore their predetermined opinions and look at facts

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Simmons is better than Tatum. I'm not sure why this is controversial or why anyone should be afraid to say it.

He is.

But, it's not a slaughter.

Ben has the keys to the castle.

He can shoot as much, or as little, as he wants.

Tatum plays within a system where he is third option at best.

Clearly, Jason is better offensively.

No.

I should say He's a better scorer, offense is more than just who puts the ball in the basket.

That's were Ben annihilates the competition because of his size, athleticism and passing ability.