Top 50 NBA Players (for real this time)

[CitySushi]

That is exactly my point.

Kevin Love was definitely overrated because of his stat stuffing in Minnesota when he was viewed as a top 10 player. I believe he is rated correctly now in the top 30-35 range.

Bosh was a little overrated in Toronto and perhaps a little underrated in Miami. The reality is he was probably always a top 20 player, probably not ever top 10-15.

I don’t know exactly where to rank Randle today, but we know he can post offensive numbers. He could always do that. We also know he has other limitations as a player that hinder his overall value to a team. For me, seeing him improve his defense and/or his shooting will cause me to move him up my list. Posting 24 and 12 with the same limitations doesn’t do it for me. That just makes him the modern era David Lee.

So don’t fall into the trap of overrating him next season unless he shows tangible progress in those areas of weakness and/or he is able to produce those numbers with high efficiency.

But that's just the the thing a lot of his list doesn't really fall into any real category. Is it projections or production? Is it actual best player based on skillset? Is it actual best player based on value added?

It's too broad of a list to say Randle would be overrated as a top 50 player for posting "empty" stats when no one seems to have a problem putting Devin Booker in the mid 30's.

Randle should be on the list because of skill set and production. If you want to re-arrange the list by value added then you could probably knock him.

 

[tlance]

But that's just the the thing a lot of his list doesn't really fall into any real category. Is it projections or production? Is it actual best player based on skillset? Is it actual best player based on value added?

It's too broad of a list to say Randle would be overrated as a top 50 player for posting "empty" stats when no one seems to have a problem putting Devin Booker in the mid 30's.

Randle should be on the list because of skill set and production. If you want to re-arrange the list by value added then you could probably knock him.

To me, a 50 best player list means value added.

This is not a ranking of the 50 best stat producers for fantasy basketball. At least I did not interpret it that way.

I guess the reason I would not question Booker’s place in the mid 30s (right or wrong) is that an empty stat producer who scores a lot and plays on the perimeter and plays poor defense just seems to be valued higher than a big man who does the same.

The current trend is to value offensive skill sets of perimeter players and place more value on defensive skill sets of big men.

Which is why it makes sense to me to see Booker ranked much higher even though in reality he is not any more productive.

 

[CitySushi]

To me, a 50 best player list means value added.

This is not a ranking of the 50 best stat producers for fantasy basketball. At least I did not interpret it that way.

I guess the reason I would not question Booker’s place in the mid 30s (right or wrong) is that an empty stat producer who scores a lot and plays on the perimeter and plays poor defense just seems to be valued higher than a big man who does the same.

The current trend is to value offensive skill sets of perimeter players and place more value on defensive skill sets of big men.

Which is why it makes sense to me to see Booker ranked much higher even though in reality he is not any more productive.

I think I see Randle as much more of an integral piece to a team than most around here. I think he has a fantastic skill set and just hasn't been given a true opportunity to show it until last year. He was benched by Luke Walton and the team had to beg him to let Randle start. After he did and began playing more he found success. Then he signed with the Pelicans and after the AD situation he got an opportunity to showcase his talents and showed that he got even better than he was in LA.

For me it's not about his offensive production or just sheer numbers volume. I think he impacts the offense of a team in a really unique way that could be harnessed if he had more talent around him. And maybe it was because of my phrasing which made it seem like I have Randle in the top 50 based on production, but it's also player value. If the NBA had an open draft and I had a chance to pick 50 players, I believe Randle would make my list.

 

[tlance]

I think I see Randle as much more of an integral piece to a team than most around here. I think he has a fantastic skill set and just hasn't been given a true opportunity to show it until last year. He was benched by Luke Walton and the team had to beg him to let Randle start. After he did and began playing more he found success. Then he signed with the Pelicans and after the AD situation he got an opportunity to showcase his talents and showed that he got even better than he was in LA.

For me it's not about his offensive production or just sheer numbers volume. I think he impacts the offense of a team in a really unique way that could be harnessed if he had more talent around him. And maybe it was because of my phrasing which made it seem like I have Randle in the top 50 based on production, but it's also player value. If the NBA had an open draft and I had a chance to pick 50 players, I believe Randle would make my list.

You might be right.

I just think bigs who are pier defenders impact their teams more negatively than guards who are poor defenders and that is where Randle gets knocked.

Really though, he is just an example. The same phenomenon happens every year with players from all different positions.

Draymond’s stats were poor last year. Has he regressed as a player? Or were his stats down because of injury and a loaded roster? I tend to think the latter, but the result is that he tumbled down rank lists like these. Perhaps fairly, perhaps not.

On the flip side, a guy who posts great stats on a bad team shoots up the rankings. In most cases more than he should.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Just feel like there's a lot of inconsistency in the list with where guys are placed due to 1) skillset, 2) production 3) injury potential and 4) projections.

It's incredibly difficult to navigate or really discuss the list because there are too many factors. If Cane had simplified it to who would be the best 50 players next season and not just top 50 NBA players, you'd have a much different list, IMO. Like KD and Klay shouldn't even make the list, tbh.

Its hard to have KD and Klay on this list when neither is likely to make much of an impact this year- KD none at all of course.

Plus....after all the ripping of KD by hurricane- it surprises me that he would have him so high after sustaining the worst injury an NBA player can sustain and going into his 30's.

I still think Durant is going to be elite when he comes back- as I think just about everyone does- but it should not shock anyone that an athlete, with a ton of miles on his odometer, moving into his 30's, sustaining a very very serious injury, the most serious inijury an NBA player can sustain- does not get back to where he previously was.

Once Kobe came back, he was a shell of himself efficiency wise---- albeit, he was a little older with more miles.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think I see Randle as much more of an integral piece to a team than most around here. I think he has a fantastic skill set and just hasn't been given a true opportunity to show it until last year. He was benched by Luke Walton and the team had to beg him to let Randle start. After he did and began playing more he found success. Then he signed with the Pelicans and after the AD situation he got an opportunity to showcase his talents and showed that he got even better than he was in LA.

For me it's not about his offensive production or just sheer numbers volume. I think he impacts the offense of a team in a really unique way that could be harnessed if he had more talent around him. And maybe it was because of my phrasing which made it seem like I have Randle in the top 50 based on production, but it's also player value. If the NBA had an open draft and I had a chance to pick 50 players, I believe Randle would make my list.

Randle does have a little Draymond in him...not the defense but the distribution. He is definitely among the top passing big men in the league which gives him added value and uniqueness. He is not just another rebounder/scorer that plays no defense. He is lefthanded also.

If he can develop some range and improve his defense he could take a big step up.

 

[CitySushi]

You might be right.

I just think bigs who are pier defenders impact their teams more negatively than guards who are poor defenders and that is where Randle gets knocked.

Really though, he is just an example. The same phenomenon happens every year with players from all different positions.

Draymond’s stats were poor last year. Has he regressed as a player? Or were his stats down because of injury and a loaded roster? I tend to think the latter, but the result is that he tumbled down rank lists like these. Perhaps fairly, perhaps not.

On the flip side, a guy who posts great stats on a bad team shoots up the rankings. In most cases more than he should.

I think Draymond regressed last year to an extent but he was also plagued by injury. I can’t use the loaded roster argument because the two previous years he had the same team and was an all star in both years. He was out of shape and produced numbers that were reflective of that.

However when he got back in shape in late March, from then to the end of the playoffs he was incredible.

I think Draymond is actually ranked a bit low for me on Canes list if only because I think he’s going to have likely one of his best years ever next season. He’s the ultimate underdog and loves being the guy people count out. He’s going to come in with a huge chip on his shoulder. I think you’ll see a career high from him in scoring as well. I think his role will be expanded and he’ll be required to do more.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think Draymond regressed last year to an extent but he was also plagued by injury. I can’t use the loaded roster argument because the two previous years he had the same team and was an all star in both years. He was out of shape and produced numbers that were reflective of that.

However when he got back in shape in late March, from then to the end of the playoffs he was incredible.

I think Draymond is actually ranked a bit low for me on Canes list if only because I think he’s going to have likely one of his best years ever next season. He’s the ultimate underdog and loves being the guy people count out. He’s going to come in with a huge chip on his shoulder. I think you’ll see a career high from him in scoring as well. I think his role will be expanded and he’ll be required to do more.

his role is DEFINITELY going to be expanded since he goes from being the 4th option to likely the 2nd option- that is definitely true.

I think Draymond slipped in the draft because there were concerns about his athleticism and body type- those of course were over blown- but i also think that as he approaches his 30's, with his body type and athleticism, once he starts going he could go real quick. He is a guy that absolutely needs to stay in peak physical shape because anything less is going to limit him in a way that it might not other guys.

He can make up for his height and lack of elite athleticism --- we have all seen that- but if he is not in peak physical condition iti gets a lot harder.

 

[CitySushi]

his role is DEFINITELY going to be expanded since he goes from being the 4th option to likely the 2nd option- that is definitely true.

I think Draymond slipped in the draft because there were concerns about his athleticism and body type- those of course were over blown- but i also think that as he approaches his 30's, with his body type and athleticism, once he starts going he could go real quick. He is a guy that absolutely needs to stay in peak physical shape because anything less is going to limit him in a way that it might not other guys.

He can make up for his height and lack of elite athleticism --- we have all seen that- but if he is not in peak physical condition iti gets a lot harder.

Agree. I’ve seen recent video of him and he looks like he’s stayed in pretty great shape. Looks slim.

Also the Warriors will eventually have to consider getting a more solid center option to relieve some wear and tear on Draymonds body. He’s had a bigger work load due to having to guard 5s a lot. They’ll need to consider preserving him a bit too.

But definitely agree Draymond needs to be in peak physical shape otherwise he’s not going to be nearly as effective.

 

[tducey]

Thanks for this. I think I'd have Kawhi at #1 on my list.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

But that's just the the thing a lot of his list doesn't really fall into any real category. Is it projections or production? Is it actual best player based on skillset? Is it actual best player based on value added?

It's too broad of a list to say Randle would be overrated as a top 50 player for posting "empty" stats when no one seems to have a problem putting Devin Booker in the mid 30's.

Randle should be on the list because of skill set and production. If you want to re-arrange the list by value added then you could probably knock him.

The reason Booker moved up eight spots from last year is because I like his outlook better now that he finally seems to have some quality coaching. Stat-stuffing in itself is not enough to make my list. There's a reason Zach Lavine has yet to make honorable mention...

 

[SJ76]

Are we talking just offense or offense and defense here??


No way Harden is over Lebron Durant and Curry imo

 

[tlance]

Are we talking just offense or offense and defense here??


No way Harden is over Lebron Durant and Curry imo

If we are just talking about last year,

Harden may have actually played better defense than LeBron. Neither were exactly focused on that end of the court.

 

[tlance]

Agree. I’ve seen recent video of him and he looks like he’s stayed in pretty great shape. Looks slim.

Also the Warriors will eventually have to consider getting a more solid center option to relieve some wear and tear on Draymonds body. He’s had a bigger work load due to having to guard 5s a lot. They’ll need to consider preserving him a bit too.

But definitely agree Draymond needs to be in peak physical shape otherwise he’s not going to be nearly as effective.

I agree about preserving Draymond for sure.

But I strongly disagree about using what limited movable assets the Warriors have to bolster the center position.

You can get 48 regular season minutes a game out of WCS, Looney and Smailegic. Pick up another big body who can give you 5-15 minutes in the event of injury and they are good to go.

Save the small lineups for the playoffs

Where the Warriors need help is with perimeter depth. WCS and Looney are quite serviceable modern 5s. It would be misallocation of roster resources to trade for a quality center given that they have WCS and Looney, IMO. There are more pressing needs.

 

[SJ76]

If we are just talking about last year,

Harden may have actually played better defense than LeBron. Neither were exactly focused on that end of the court.

So both barely play D now. Noted

 

[trojanfan12]

So both barely play D now. Noted

Lebron still does, but he's 34, so he picks his spots. Harden has never been interested in defense. Although, to be fair, he was a little better last year.

 

[SJ76]

Lebron still does, but he's 34, so he picks his spots. Harden has never been interested in defense. Although, to be fair, he was a little better last year.

I think they have been picking their spots on D for years. Regular season is pretty bad overall but it does get better in the playoffs. Refs let them play a bit more in the playoffs as well.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think they have been picking their spots on D for years. Regular season is pretty bad overall but it does get better in the playoffs. Refs let them play a bit more in the playoffs as well.

No doubt. Guys like Lebron, MJ, Kobe, etc. that are known for playing both ends of the floor, usually start picking their spots around 30-31 years old. The stretches that they focus on defense get shorter as they get older.

At 34, Lebron can still shut down an opponents best player. But he can only do it for a few minutes or so at time. Not for the long stretches that he could a few years ago.

 

[tlance]

No doubt. Guys like Lebron, MJ, Kobe, etc. that are known for playing both ends of the floor, usually start picking their spots around 30-31 years old. The stretches that they focus on defense get shorter as they get older.

At 34, Lebron can still shut down an opponents best player. But he can only do it for a few minutes or so at time. Not for the long stretches that he could a few years ago.

Yeah.

LeBron just didn’t pick very many spots last year.

But I certainly agree he is still capable of playing thigh level defense in small doses.

 

[dtgold88]

No doubt. Guys like Lebron, MJ, Kobe, etc. that are known for playing both ends of the floor, usually start picking their spots around 30-31 years old. The stretches that they focus on defense get shorter as they get older.

At 34, Lebron can still shut down an opponents best player. But he can only do it for a few minutes or so at time. Not for the long stretches that he could a few years ago.

Probably didn't help matters Lebron learned a while ago playoff seed didn't matter much for him which lessened regular season even more.