The NBA rookies Thread

[flyerhawk]

Agreed. This has been the general feeling al year. And if he wins it certainly is not bad. I asked you to sort the data so that you could see that now that the season has started, and we looks at skill levels, we have someone climbing up the ranks based on pure quality of his play. He was not hyped up but eventually people will need to ignore their predetermined opinions and look at facts

Wait. You are arguing that the #3 pick in the draft is some plucky upstart coming out of nowhere?

There were LOTS of people arguing that he was the best player in the draft. It wouldn't have made sense for the Sixers to draft him so I certainly don't feel any sense of diminishing him because the Sixers didn't draft. I've only watched a little Celts hoops but he looks really promising. Brown has looked good as well.

The facts right now are Simmons is playing at arguably an all-star level. As a rookie.

I expect both players to get better. And things may change by the end of the season. In fact it Fultz is anything close to what people thought he could be I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sixers and Celtics dominating the East for quite a while. It'll be like the early 80s all over again.

 

[flyerhawk]

That's were Ben annihilates the competition because of his size, athleticism and passing ability.

What's been most impressive to me about Ben is that his game scoring game is still pretty limited. He rarely shoots beyond 12 feet and basically hasn't taken a single 3 yet. And yet he's scoring 18 points a game. Teams SHOULD be able to close him down but his passing ability has, so far, really made that dangerous. His cross court passing when he's cornered is really impressive.

I'll be very surprised if he doesn't develop a reliable mid-range.

 

[Sparhawk]

Wait. You are arguing that the #3 pick in the draft is some plucky upstart coming out of nowhere?

Then again, Okafor was the #3 pick in a draft.

Sorry, I just threw up in my mouth a little......

 

[LogicMan]

I am not posting that Simmons is not special. I am posting that when you look at some basic statistics you can quickly see that Tatum should be front and center in discussions, which is why I asked you to simple apply a few filters. Simmons is not a good shooter. he is not even in the top 10 or 15 rookies in shooting.

He shoots 60% FT which is telling. I have not watched his ISO game anough to see if he can take somebody to the rack but without a mid range or outside game any good coach will ask his team to lock down his lanes and force him outside.

 

[flyerhawk]

I am not posting that Simmons is not special. I am posting that when you look at some basic statistics you can quickly see that Tatum should be front and center in discussions, which is why I asked you to simple apply a few filters. Simmons is not a good shooter. he is not even in the top 10 or 15 rookies in shooting.

I think everyone agrees that Simmons is not a good outside shooter. You seem to want to argue that outside shooting should be the primary factor in assessing a player's game.

He shoots 60% FT which is telling. I have not watched his ISO game anough to see if he can take somebody to the rack but without a mid range or outside game any good coach will ask his team to lock down his lanes and force him outside.

Well he's not a good outside shooter. And he plays the point. And he scores 18 points a game. So I'm gonna take a stab and say he can take it to the rack.

 

[larryjohn]

Well he's not a good outside shooter. And he plays the point. And he scores 18 points a game. So I'm gonna take a stab and say he can take it to the rack.

In some ways like the Greek Freak -- ability to score without the threat of an outside shot. (although Freak can hit a 15 footer)

 

[flyerhawk]

In some ways like the Greek Freak -- ability to score without the threat of an outside shot. (although Freak can hit a 15 footer)

Simmons CAN hit the 15 footer. He's shooting 57% from 16' to the arc. He just doesn't take the shot.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Percentage of field goal attempts at the rim in their first two seasons:

Simmons: 49% through 8 games, ??%
Westbrook: 42%, 42%
Wall: 36%, 41%
Giannis: 48%, 55%
Wade: 58%, 52%
Bledsoe: 34%, 64%
Iguodala: 50%, 48%
Parker: 44%, 37%
Rose: 43%, 34%
Lawson: 51%, 46%
Teague: 39%, 39%
Butler: 35%, 46%
Oladipo: 39%, 42%
Schroder: 31%, 47%

Just an update. After 13 games, Simmons is now at 42% of his shots at the rim. In those 5 games since the last post, his FG% is down a bit. He's shooting 44.6% from the field in the last 5 games (he was at 53% after 8 games). His FTA per game are also down about 1 per game. Clearly, he's taking fewer shots at the rim. Not sure if that is deliberate or if teams are scheming him differently or if it's just a victim of small sample size.

 

[Gman]

Clearly, Jason is better offensively.

No.

I should say He's a better scorer, offense is more than just who puts the ball in the basket.

That's were Ben annihilates the competition because of his size, athleticism and passing ability.

I like how you explain things here, and agree.

Tatum is just about as skilled of an offensive player as I've ever seen coming out of college into the NBA. What he lacks is elite explosion for his size.

That's one area where Simmons clearly has him beat... a little explosion to go along with his size.

 

[LogicMan]

2016 NBA Draft Prospects: Breaking Down Pro Future of LSU's Ben Simmons

Simmons shooting woes are not a new topic. This was a well known topic at LSU. If he can stay in a transition offense he will get buckets.

If I was the sixers I would get him and flutz some shooting coaches to teach him how to shoot

 

[LogicMan]

Not sure if that is deliberate or if teams are scheming him differently or if it's just a victim of small sample size.

nice post. See the scouting reports. They key is to stop him in transition or he will eat you up (ie. the greek freak comparison). Apply defense on him tho and he tends to be reluctant to shoot, especially in a playoff like half court set and defense

 

[flyerhawk]

nice post. See the scouting reports. They key is to stop him in transition or he will eat you up (ie. the greek freak comparison). Apply defense on him tho and he tends to be reluctant to shoot, especially in a playoff like half court set and defense

Well we are pretty far from a playoff like situation. And we don't really know what any of these kids would do in a playoff situation.

Simmons tendency is to either pass, drive to the hoop or drive and dish. That has been effective for him so far. Perhaps it won't remain that way but it's like that just being able to do those 3 things is going to cause defenses a lot of problems. He has too good a handle for a big man to guard him at the perimeter and just about every guard is going to give up 4 or 5 inches on him which gives him a great deal of space to work with.

 

[trojanfan12]

lol

Looks like folks were saying good things about rookies not named Ben Simmons.

You all know that Sixers fans don't like it when you do that.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Ball continues to look great!!

 

[wildturkey]

How to Identify an NBA Draft Bust in Just 10 Games

Thought this was interesting. Not the Fultz part. Ignore that. That part is bullshit considering he's played like 4 games all while injured. The intriguing part is the GameScore correlation over the first 10 games and how it pans out of future success. It's a little more sloppy than the piece indicates (for example, Alex Poythress was 2nd overall his rookie year) but its interesting nonetheless to play around year to year and compare who panned out.

 

[flyerhawk]

Kinda shocked that Ball saw zero minutes in the 4 quarter. Ingram was really impressive tonight.

Simmons had a really nice game but Embiid was kinda WTF.

 

[LogicMan]

If Fultz even meets 80% of his expectations and you consider the talent of Embid and Simmons, and a very good next level of players the Sixers are going to see the process pan out well.

 

[LogicMan]

Kinda shocked that Ball saw zero minutes in the 4 quarter.

Kid is too good for this to continue. I remain firm that they need to work on his shot now.

 

[LogicMan]

lol

Looks like folks were saying good things about rookies not named Ben Simmons.

You all know that Sixers fans don't like it when you do that.

Thank you. Simmons is the real deal but he is not perfect. Now if he develops like Lebron did then damn! But you have to be able to shoot in this game to be a superstar...........

 

[LogicMan]

I am intrigued to see how the rookies do defending golden state tonight. for me a win is keeping them to maybe 100 to 105