The NBA rookies Thread

[Mecca]

Defensively yes already. But he's still got a ways to go offensively. But his passing is impressive already and his athleticism is off the charts. He needs to get a little bit of a jump shot going outside the paint. He hit a nice little midrange yesterday, the first he's taken all year. All his other points have been point blank looks.

There was a game yesterday?

* blacks the fug out again *

 

[flyerhawk]

As for Lonzo....

I am not of the opinion that he is having a bad year.

I knew he would not put up high point totals night in and out.

That is not his game.

He is a facilitator and he has exceeded expectations in that regard.

He's shooting poorly and that is likely hurting the Lakers overall. But I'm guessing that Walton is fine with giving Ball as many shots as he will take even if that is hurting the team. At least to a point. If a month from now Lonzo still is shooting 30% then he may have to adjust if for no other reason as he doesn't want to mess with Lonzo's mind.

So his shooting probably makes it look like he is playing worse than he is, his shooting definitely needs to improve dramatically.

 

[CitySushi]

Exactly.

Coming out of High school, LeBron had immediate success because of his combination of skill and size.


Coming out of High School, Jermaine Oneal was barbecue chicken until he ate 50k cheeseburgers.

He basically had a 3 yr red shirt and it didn't matter until his body developed.

Dirk was a Fucking disaster in year one.

Why? Because his shot wasn't falling and my 12 year old daughter has more upper body strength than he did back then.

KG fits this too. He needed to get his body right and it took him about 2 or 3 years to get it to where he needed to be to succeed on his level.

 

[flyerhawk]

Exactly.

Coming out of High school, LeBron had immediate success because of his combination of skill and size.


Coming out of High School, Jermaine Oneal was barbecue chicken until he ate 50k cheeseburgers.

He basically had a 3 yr red shirt and it didn't matter until his body developed.

Dirk was a Fucking disaster in year one.

Why? Because his shot wasn't falling and my 12 year old daughter has more upper body strength than he did back then.

Simmons has more success because of his size, not because he got to ride on charter flights and use the Sixers weight room.

Very few rookies come into the NBA and are effective shooters. It's very difficult. And even the ones that start shooting well almost always regress.

Size, otoh, is always game ready.

 

[CitySushi]

Player A: 11.7 PPG, 7.7 APG, 5.4 RPG, 1.9 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 38.5% FG, 27.2% 3P (Co-Rookie of the Year)

Player B: 10.0 PPG, 7.7 APG, 7.5 RPG, 1.3 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 31.1% FG, 28.1% 3P

Player B is clearly Lonzo. Player A won Co-Rookie of the year with those numbers. That was Jason Kidd. Lonzo's only 6 games in and putting up really good numbers for a 2nd pick in the draft. If we didn't know who his father was, we'd be all saying how great his potential is.

Not saying he'll be Jason Kidd, but his numbers lineup with a guy who won co-rookie of the year. Hard to say he's having a bad year so far.

 

[Mecca]

KG fits this too. He needed to get his body right and it took him about 2 or 3 years to get it to where he needed to be to succeed on his level.

Outside of Durant and maybe Miller, most bean poles need time.

Those guys could shoot the lights out.

So, the lack of girth wasn't as burdensome.

Lonzo will be fine.

He just needs time.

Remember how the Celtics shitcanned Billups prematurely?

Lonzo is playing the most competitive position in today's NBA.

He needs time.

 

[CitySushi]

Outside of Durant and maybe Miller, most bean poles need time.

Those guys could shoot the lights out.

So, the lack of girth wasn't as burdensome.

Lonzo will be fine.

He just needs time.

Remember how the Celtics shitcanned Billups prematurely?

Lonzo is playing the most competitive position in today's NBA.

He needs time.

Oh I 100% agree. I think all the negativity surrounding Ball is unwarranted right now. BUT he needs to learn shot selection quickly. It's one thing if you can't shoot, but it's another to continue to shoot them.

 

[Mecca]

Player A: 11.7 PPG, 7.7 APG, 5.4 RPG, 1.9 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 38.5% FG, 27.2% 3P (Co-Rookie of the Year)

Player B: 10.0 PPG, 7.7 APG, 7.5 RPG, 1.3 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 31.1% FG, 28.1% 3P

Player B is clearly Lonzo. Player A won Co-Rookie of the year with those numbers. That was Jason Kidd. Lonzo's only 6 games in and putting up really good numbers for a 2nd pick in the draft. If we didn't know who his father was, we'd be all saying how great his potential is.

Not saying he'll be Jason Kidd, but his numbers lineup with a guy who won co-rookie of the year. Hard to say he's having a bad year so far.

I almost DJ Khalid myself....by saying you're smart.

You get it.

The Magic comparisons are ridiculous hype.

Jason Kidd is spot on.

 

[Mecca]

Oh I 100% agree. I think all the negativity surrounding Ball is unwarranted right now. BUT he needs to learn shot selection quickly. It's one thing if you can't shoot, but it's another to continue to shoot them.

That's on Luke.

He needs to make sure his voice is the one Lonzo listens too, not Lavar's when he tells him to shoot it 26 times...lol

 

[knowyourenemy]

Per 36 Minute Numbers:

Player A: 10.3 PPG, 7.9 APG, 7.7 RPG, 1.4 SPG, 0.3 BPG - 82 ORTG/103 DRTF
Player B: 19.0 PPG, 7.9 APG, 9.7 RPG, 1.5 SPG, 0.4 BPG - 111 ORTG/106 DRTG
Player C: 22.2 PPG, 3.5 APG, 9.0 RPG, 2.1 SPG, 2.1 BPG - 149 ORTG/108 DRTG


Player A - Lonzo
Player B - Simmons
Player C - JORDAN BELL - ROY

Told you Bell is the GOAT.

He's hitting 89% of his shots. He's unstoppable. ROY? He may win MVP.

 

[CitySushi]

He's hitting 89% of his shots. He's unstoppable. ROY? He may win MVP.

GOAT in the making. Unquestionably.

 

[flyerhawk]

Player A: 11.7 PPG, 7.7 APG, 5.4 RPG, 1.9 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 38.5% FG, 27.2% 3P (Co-Rookie of the Year)

Player B: 10.0 PPG, 7.7 APG, 7.5 RPG, 1.3 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 31.1% FG, 28.1% 3P

Player B is clearly Lonzo. Player A won Co-Rookie of the year with those numbers. That was Jason Kidd. Lonzo's only 6 games in and putting up really good numbers for a 2nd pick in the draft. If we didn't know who his father was, we'd be all saying how great his potential is.

Not saying he'll be Jason Kidd, but his numbers lineup with a guy who won co-rookie of the year. Hard to say he's having a bad year so far.

I hope no one thinks I'm trying to slag Lonzo. I honestly don't much care about him. The tit for tat about Ball is more in response to some Laker fans trying to pretend he is playing better than he is.

His only real problem is shooting efficiency. 31% is just not going to cut it. But there is no reason to expect it won't improve. Although that weird shooting form needs to be change, IMO.

 

[CitySushi]

Simmons is clearly the front runner for ROY. I think if he keeps up his pace he'll have one of the greatest rookie seasons ever at least from a statistical stand point. He's a legit franchise player.

Lonzo I don't think is a franchise player, but he'll be very good for a very long time. All Lonzo needs to do is be able to get into the 15 ppg range and keep up his apg and rpg and he'll be golden. He needs to improve his shot efficiency and shot selection too. In this day and age it's a necessity for his position.

 

[flyerhawk]

Simmons is clearly the front runner for ROY. I think if he keeps up his pace he'll have one of the greatest rookie seasons ever at least from a statistical stand point. He's a legit franchise player.

Lonzo I don't think is a franchise player, but he'll be very good for a very long time. All Lonzo needs to do is be able to get into the 15 ppg range and keep up his apg and rpg and he'll be golden. He needs to improve his shot efficiency and shot selection too. In this day and age it's a necessity for his position.

Agreed. If Lonzo can get his FG% to around 45% and his 3P% to around even 35% he will be a very good player. He has great court vision and if he can get the defense to collapse on him he will be able to exploit that with his passing.

 

[tlance]

You're full of shit. PF's typically shoot closer to the basket than guards. It's really that simple.

You should stop embarrassing yourself. You won't though because you just can't stop yourself.

Not sure you can say that anymore. There aren't that many post PFs in the game anymore. Most shoot 3s and the vast majority of the guys who don't regularly shoot from 15-18 feet.

It is pretty clear what @shopson67 meant with his original comment, but as basketball moves closer and closer to being postionless, it will be increasingly irrelevant to talk about types of shots guys at certain positions take. Heck, many centers are shooting 3s now.

I think it boils down to whether you are a shooter or not. Simmons is not. Therefor he takes most of his shots as he attacks the rim Off the dribble. I am not sure who the best comp is, but I can't think of a single PF who plays like Simmons does.

 

[flyerhawk]

I am not sure who the best comp is, but I can't think of a single PF who plays like Simmons does.

Someone said this upthread but the best comp for Simmons is probably Lebron. Point guard vision with a swing man handle and a power forward body.

 

[tlance]

Player A: 11.7 PPG, 7.7 APG, 5.4 RPG, 1.9 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 38.5% FG, 27.2% 3P (Co-Rookie of the Year)

Player B: 10.0 PPG, 7.7 APG, 7.5 RPG, 1.3 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 31.1% FG, 28.1% 3P

Player B is clearly Lonzo. Player A won Co-Rookie of the year with those numbers. That was Jason Kidd. Lonzo's only 6 games in and putting up really good numbers for a 2nd pick in the draft. If we didn't know who his father was, we'd be all saying how great his potential is.

Not saying he'll be Jason Kidd, but his numbers lineup with a guy who won co-rookie of the year. Hard to say he's having a bad year so far.

Lonzo can't be properly evaluated by looking at stats. Neither could Jason Kidd.

The ball movement those guys create can have a tremendous impact on teammates that does not show up in any stat column. I am not quite sure how to evaluate Lonzo moving forward because there is no easy way to measure the intangibles.

One thing is for sure though, he needs to shoot better than he has.

 

[tlance]

Someone said this upthread but the best comp for Simmons is probably Lebron. Point guard vision with a swing man handle and a power forward body.

I think I might have said that.

While it might be true, I still hesitate to compare any rookie to LeBron. Not sure that is fair. I know you just mean in playing style, but still.

 

[flyerhawk]

I think I might have said that.

While it might be true, I still hesitate to compare any rookie to LeBron. Not sure that is fair. I know you just mean in playing style, but still.

I definitely only mean style and size. Very unlikely that he comes close to Lebron's game.

 

[Mecca]

Someone said this upthread but the best comp for Simmons is probably Lebron. Point guard vision with a swing man handle and a power forward body.

I think I might have said that.

While it might be true, I still hesitate to compare any rookie to LeBron. Not sure that is fair. I know you just mean in playing style, but still.

His absolute ceiling would be Lebronish.

I don't see that.....yet.

I put him more in the ultra-athletic Lamar Odom category.

I have mixed feelings on the Ball not being a franchise player theory.

Define franchise player?

I'm being serious...

He's not a #1 or 2 option.

But, neither was J Kidd.

I considered Jason a Franchise player...

Someone you build your roster around.

Why can't Lonzo fall in that category?

The Magic made Howard look like a franchise guy by surrounding him with shooters.

Lakers can do the same with Ball.