The NBA rookies Thread

[trojanfan12]

The fact that you think the shots Simmons are taking are ones "typically taken by PF's" shows that you're a clown that hasn't watched a single second of Simmons play this year. Just because a shot is at the rim or within 3 feet of the basket doesn't mean it's a shot that you typically see power forwards take.

You should be embarrassed. You're a moderator on this board and all you do is end up losing meaningless pissing matches to people who apparently don't know anything about basketball.

You're full of shit. PF's typically shoot closer to the basket than guards. It's really that simple.

You should stop embarrassing yourself. You won't though because you just can't stop yourself.

 

[knowyourenemy]

You're full of shit. PF's typically shoot closer to the basket than guards. It's really that simple.

You should stop embarrassing yourself. You won't though because you just can't stop yourself.

The only thing I'm embarrassed about is that I've gone on this long arguing with someone who has no idea what they're talking about. Have fun watching Lonzo shoot 30% and I'll enjoy Simmons and his PF shots.

 

[trojanfan12]

The only thing I'm embarrassed about is that I've gone on this long arguing with someone who has no idea what they're talking about. Have fun watching Lonzo shoot 30% and I'll enjoy Simmons and his PF shots.

Translation = I have been exposed and am now trying to save face.

 

[trojanfan12]

The only thing I'm embarrassed about is that I've gone on this long arguing with someone who has no idea what they're talking about. Have fun watching Lonzo shoot 30% and I'll enjoy Simmons and his PF shots.

In all seriousness, Simmons will and should have a better shooting percentage than Lonzo. Even if Lonzo does improve his shot, Simmons will likely always shoot it at a higher rate because, unless he gets too "3 happy" he will always take shots closer to the basket than Lonzo will. They play different games.

 

[flyerhawk]

You're full of shit. PF's typically shoot closer to the basket than guards. It's really that simple.

You should stop embarrassing yourself. You won't though because you just can't stop yourself.

This is a real silly argument.

Ben Simmons isn't playing PF. He's playing point on offense. He shoots closer to the basket because his style of play is closer to Russell Westbrook than Chris Paul. Would you seriously argue that Russell Westbrook takes PF shots?

If the argument is that Ball is taking shots further away from the basket than Simmons then just say that. Don't invent some weird argument that suggests that Simmons is playing some other position than he is playing. He isn't sitting in the paint waiting for a feed. His most common shot is a near the basket shot after a drive to the hoop from the top of they key.

Neither Simmons or Ball have good outside shots right now. Heck I think Markanen is the only rookie shooting reasonably well so far. Which is normal.

 

[flyerhawk]

In all seriousness, Simmons will and should have a better shooting percentage than Lonzo. Even if Lonzo does improve his shot, Simmons will likely always shoot it at a higher rate because, unless he gets too "3 happy" he will always take shots closer to the basket than Lonzo will. They play different games.

Exactly right. If Simmons develops into the best version of himself he isn't likely to take more than 3-5 3s a game. That's just not part of his game.

An effective perimeter shot is going to be much more important for Ball, and for Fultz for that matter when he comes back.

 

[bksballer89]

Bam playing great defense on the wing

 

[shopson67]

Ball has a 10.5 PER. Simmons has a 19. Ball's true shooting percentage is 37%. Simmons is 50%.

Whining about Simmons being red shirted is just that.

Not whining at all, just making a valid point. Clearly he's outplaying Ball to this point, but he's not truly a rookie any more. Give Ball some time to adjust to the league.

 

[shopson67]

Partially agree.

Blake Griffin, Simmons, Noel, Embiid even Randle to an extent were red shirt guys.

Of the guys on that list, how many of them actually improved while sitting out?

Blake won rookie of the year. But, his game was the same...all athleticism, no shooting touch.

Noel? Nope.

Randle? Not really.

Embiid? Well shit, he had 3 years. So, no surprise there.

Lonzo needs to mature physically.

Pg is the most competitive position.

Which means, his feet are put to the fire every night.

That is the biggest difference between he and Simmons.

Not many Dude's in the NBA with Simmons size, speed passing ability.

So, his adjustment is easier.

How can you know if they improved? You can't, as they didn't play as true rookies. There is definite value in spending a year with the team and feeling more comfortable in the league (and, as you mentioned, a year in an NBA weight training and nutrition program).

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

How can you know if they improved? You can't, as they didn't play as true rookies. There is definite value in spending a year with the team and feeling more comfortable in the league (and, as you mentioned, a year in an NBA weight training and nutrition program).

Because they were the exact same player that they were their last year in college.

Outside of Embiid, none of them improved their shooting, developed low post moves etc....

Simmons is having a better year than Ball because he is a better player and he has a grown ass man's body.

Lonzo red shirt a year and it won't matter unless he gets stronger and develops a jumper.

* See Ingram

 

[shopson67]

Because they were the exact same player that they were their last year in college.

Outside of Embiid, none of them improved their shooting, developed low post moves etc....

Simmons is having a better year than Ball because he is a better player and he has a grown ass man's body.

Lonzo could sit out a year and it won't matter unless he gets stronger and develops a jumper.

* See Ingram

If those players were the same in the NBA as they were in the NCAA, that would imply growth, as the level of competition and play is so much higher, for more nights a week and a much longer season. Lonzo definitely has a long way to go, and hitting some open shots would do wonders for the rest of his game.

 

[flyerhawk]

Not whining at all, just making a valid point. Clearly he's outplaying Ball to this point, but he's not truly a rookie any more. Give Ball some time to adjust to the league.

The guy played 0 games and had almost zero practices with the Sixers last year. Are you really arguing that a year of weight training and professional nutrition planning is the difference? That is a highly dubious claim.

If that claim had much merit then 2nd players should really blossom in general. Is there much evidence to support that claim?

Is Brandon Igram stepping up his game? How bout Bender? Kris Dunn can't even get on the court of a bad Bulls team. Jaylen Brown is probably the only rookie from last year that has shown notable improvement from his rookie year.

I'm more than willing to give Lonzo time before judging him. It is way too early to judge him. But arguing that the reason why Simmons is playing better than Lonzo is because he was red shirted last year is absurd. Simmons is playing at a near all-star level right now. That may taper off, in fact I expect it will. But right now he's playing extremely well.

If you want to make an argument is to why Simmons is performing out of the gate better than Ball, arguing that Simmons skill set makes it easier to adjust to the NBA. That at least is coherent.

 

[flyerhawk]

Simmons is having a better year than Ball because he is a better player and he has a grown ass man's body.

This is a big factor. He's not just 6'10". He's a muscular 6'10". Maybe not fully developed but if you compare him to other young big man you can see that his frame is much developed. Which is a big reason why he can drive to the rim so consistently. There simply aren't a lot of guys who can straight up intimidate him physically.

A lot of the other guys will develop physically. But it takes time for most guys.

 

[CitySushi]

Per 36 Minute Numbers:

Player A: 10.3 PPG, 7.9 APG, 7.7 RPG, 1.4 SPG, 0.3 BPG - 82 ORTG/103 DRTF
Player B: 19.0 PPG, 7.9 APG, 9.7 RPG, 1.5 SPG, 0.4 BPG - 111 ORTG/106 DRTG
Player C: 22.2 PPG, 3.5 APG, 9.0 RPG, 2.1 SPG, 2.1 BPG - 149 ORTG/108 DRTG


Player A - Lonzo
Player B - Simmons
Player C - JORDAN BELL - ROY

Told you Bell is the GOAT.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

If those players were the same in the NBA as they were in the NCAA, that would imply growth, as the level of competition and play is so much higher, for more nights a week and a much longer season. Lonzo definitely has a long way to go, and hitting some open shots would do wonders for the rest of his game.

Dude...

You are being purposely obtuse.

I didn't say their stats were the same, I said their games.


Blake just recently started to seriously expand his game.

But, because he has size, he was able to put up numbers immediately.

On the flip side...

Noel is garbage, even after sitting out a year because he has not developed.

That cat quick, shot blocking superiority meant zilch in the pros because he's still a buck o five, soaking wet with bricks in his pocket, has no post moves and can't shoot.

Sitting out a year doesn't always help....that was my only point...lol

As for Lonzo....

I am not of the opinion that he is having a bad year.

I knew he would not put up high point totals night in and out.

That is not his game.

He is a facilitator and he has exceeded expectations in that regard.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Per 36 Minute Numbers:

Player A: 10.3 PPG, 7.9 APG, 7.7 RPG, 1.4 SPG, 0.3 BPG - 82 ORTG/103 DRTF
Player B: 19.0 PPG, 7.9 APG, 9.7 RPG, 1.5 SPG, 0.4 BPG - 111 ORTG/106 DRTG
Player C: 22.2 PPG, 3.5 APG, 9.0 RPG, 2.1 SPG, 2.1 BPG - 149 ORTG/108 DRTG


Player A - Lonzo
Player B - Simmons
Player C - JORDAN BELL - ROY

Told you Bell is the GOAT.

Draymond Jr.

 

[CitySushi]

Dude...

You are being purposely obtuse.

 

[CitySushi]

Draymond Jr.

Defensively yes already. But he's still got a ways to go offensively. But his passing is impressive already and his athleticism is off the charts. He needs to get a little bit of a jump shot going outside the paint. He hit a nice little midrange yesterday, the first he's taken all year. All his other points have been point blank looks.

 

[flyerhawk]

Per 36 Minute Numbers:

Player A: 10.3 PPG, 7.9 APG, 7.7 RPG, 1.4 SPG, 0.3 BPG - 82 ORTG/103 DRTF
Player B: 19.0 PPG, 7.9 APG, 9.7 RPG, 1.5 SPG, 0.4 BPG - 111 ORTG/106 DRTG
Player C: 22.2 PPG, 3.5 APG, 9.0 RPG, 2.1 SPG, 2.1 BPG - 149 ORTG/108 DRTG


Player A - Lonzo
Player B - Simmons
Player C - JORDAN BELL - ROY

Told you Bell is the GOAT.

LOL. He definitely was a steal for the Warriors.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

This is a big factor. He's not just 6'10". He's a muscular 6'10". Maybe not fully developed but if you compare him to other young big man you can see that his frame is much developed. Which is a big reason why he can drive to the rim so consistently. There simply aren't a lot of guys who can straight up intimidate him physically.

A lot of the other guys will develop physically. But it takes time for most guys.

Exactly.

Coming out of High school, LeBron had immediate success because of his combination of skill and size.


Coming out of High School, Jermaine Oneal was barbecue chicken until he ate 50k cheeseburgers.

He basically had a 3 yr red shirt and it didn't matter until his body developed.

Dirk was a Fucking disaster in year one.

Why? Because his shot wasn't falling and my 12 year old daughter has more upper body strength than he did back then.

Simmons has more success because of his size, not because he got to ride on charter flights and use the Sixers weight room.