The NBA rookies Thread

[flyerhawk]

Incoming (somewhat) objective stance on Lonzo and Simmons.

I'll start with the easiest part, rebounding. I'm not disputing how great Lonzo has been on the boards, but you have to look at how he gets them. Lonzo isn't exactly banging inside and ripping them down. He's getting all the long rebounds and weakside rebounds as he should, being 6'7". You look at how Russell Westbrook got all his rebounds last year and it's similar. His teammates are doing the dirty work of boxing out and Lonzo is able to go in to grab the boards. That's not to say what he's doing isn't valuable, but saying Simmons should out rebound Lonzo is not a good argument. Hell Curry out-rebounded Draymond in the Finals last year, but that doesn't mean Curry was more of a rebounding force than Draymond.

Scoring wise, both will always have their issues unless they're able to develop reliable jumpshots. However, the one thing that works in Simmons favor is positional versatility. Because he's able to play the PF position he can be both at the same time. That means he'll have the added bonus of being guarded many times by a slower defender and has more ways to generate offense for himself. Lonzo won't have the same opportunity being guarded by quicker opponents. He's not the most explosive athlete to begin with so an outside shot for him is more imperative, IMO.

Comparing shooting percentages to these two players is ridiculous. Lonzo's looks are more perimeter oriented(as they should be) and Simmons is more midrange and in (again as it should be). What would be a much more telling statistic is the QUALITY of their looks. You want efficiency. Lonzo is shooting 5.3 3pt attempts per game at a 28% clip. That's pretty bad any way you look at it.

Simmons is doing exactly what he needs to do. Shooting a high percentage with quality looks. Lonzo is shooting a lesser percentage from non quality looks. The reason they are non-quality is because of volume and result. If you're not a good 3 point shooter, you should not be taking that many per game. Lonzo has elite size at his position and could find many other ways to be productive in scoring the ball.

This is a great post. Spot on.

Simmons has an early on advantage because he's a 6'10" ball handler with a power forward physique. So teams can't just ignore him because he can drive to the hoop for high percentage shots. Ball simply can't do that. He's not quick enough or big enough to ever be a guy that make his living driving on the net.

But as they develop the outside is going to be more important for both of them. If neither can develop an effective outside shot they will never be more than good players. IMO, Simmons probably doesn't need to develop a good 3 point shot whereas Ball probably does.

There is no reason to think that Ball and Simmons can't develop a good outside shot. But it takes time in the NBA because nothing is free. Every shot is contested.

 

[knowyourenemy]

This is a great post. Spot on.

Simmons has an early on advantage because he's a 6'10" ball handler with a power forward physique. So teams can't just ignore him because he can drive to the hoop for high percentage shots. Ball simply can't do that. He's not quick enough or big enough to ever be a guy that make his living driving on the net.

But as they develop the outside is going to be more important for both of them. If neither can develop an effective outside shot they will never be more than good players. IMO, Simmons probably doesn't need to develop a good 3 point shot whereas Ball probably does.

There is no reason to think that Ball and Simmons can't develop a good outside shot. But it takes time in the NBA because nothing is free. Every shot is contested.

Lonzo made 79% of his shots "at the rim" in college. Obviously that number was going to drop in the NBA but I think that's where he needs to improve the most. He's at .375 right now. Get that above 50% and he'll be ok. MCW shot .553 at the rim his rookie year. There's no reason Lonzo can't put up similar numbers.

 

[trojanfan12]

He's also shooting very poorly on non-3s.

Really?!? I hadn't noticed. Neither has anyone apparently since you're the first person to post this.

Did Allen Iverson take "PF" shots? What about Russell Westbrook? Or Dwayne Wade? Simmons isn't playing with his back to the basket trying to post up.

Wow, seriously?!? You do understand the difference between perimeter shots and shots closer to the basket, right?

Never mind, your post shows that you don't.

Really? That's your argument? So how many rebounds SHOULD Simmons be getting?

A lot more than a guard.

 

[bksballer89]

13 and 13 for Bam. Best game of his season so far. Love the energy he brings

 

[trojanfan12]

Yes, and that makes it an excuse because his 3-point percentage is not significantly hurting his overall percentage. He's shooting .333 on 2-point shots. His awful 3-point shooting is only bringing his percentage down 22 points (from .333 to .311). Ben Simmons' 3-point percentages are bringing his overall percentage down 18 points (from .524 to .506). Your argument is bogus.

No, it makes it a fact. An excuse would be saying his shoes are too tight or blaming the refs. The fact that he shoots more 3's is just that...a fact.

There is literally no such thing as "PF shots."

This sentence made the entire rest of your post not worth my time. You should be embarrassed.

 

[trojanfan12]

13 and 13 for Bam. Best game of his season so far. Love the energy he brings

Wait!! What?!? How is this possible? Weren't we told by an extremely credible source that he sucks?

 

[bksballer89]

Wait!! What?!? How is this possible? Weren't we told by an extremely credible source that he sucks?

Lol dude is going to be so much better than Tristan if he continues to work on his game. Won't be close

 

[knowyourenemy]

No, it makes it a fact. An excuse would be saying his shoes are too tight or blaming the refs. The fact that he shoots more 3's is just that...a fact.



This sentence made the entire rest of your post not worth my time. You should be embarrassed.

Translation: I’m wrong and can’t really win this argument so I’m just not going to read your post.

You’re a joke.

 

[wildturkey]

Kuzma > Ball and Simmons put together

End of debate

 

[flyerhawk]

Kuzma > Ball and Simmons put together

End of debate

Well I'll agree with you that Kuzma has been better than Fultz so far. No question about that.

 

[trojanfan12]

Lol dude is going to be so much better than Tristan if he continues to work on his game. Won't be close

Haven't seen him much, but from what I have seen, he seems like he's more athletic than Tristan.

 

[trojanfan12]

Translation: I’m wrong and can’t really win this argument so I’m just not going to read your post.

You’re a joke.

No, when you make a post that shows once and for all just how little you know about basketball, it makes it clear that your posts are a waste of time.

Hilarious that you can't see the difference between shots typically taken by PF's vs. those that are typiccally taken by guards.

You really should be embarrassed. The fact that you aren't only further illustrates what a waste of time your posts are.

 

[trojanfan12]

Well I'll agree with you that Kuzma has been better than Fultz so far. No question about that.

Giving Fultz the benefit of the doubt due to his shoulder injury. That will fuck up a shot and also make other plays difficult as well.

Hopefully, for his sake, the Sixers won't try to rush him back and we will see a different guy when he returns.

 

[flyerhawk]

Giving Fultz the benefit of the doubt due to his shoulder injury. That will fuck up a shot and also make other plays difficult as well.

Hopefully, for his sake, the Sixers won't try to rush him back and we will see a different guy when he returns.

I can't imagine that the Sixers will rush him back. Bayless and McConnell are serviceable and occasionally good PGs. A gimpy Fultz doesn't help this team. I would imagine they would sooner table him for the first half of the season than rush him forward.

 

[flyerhawk]

In other rookie news, Simmons makes the top 10 ESPN's player rankings...

NBA player rankings: Who dominated a wild Week 2?

Obviously Ben isn't a top 10 player yet but he sure is playing really well. The Sixers have, so far, played 5 of 7 games against top 4 seeded playoff teams from last year. So can't really complain about their 3-4 record to start and Ben is a big reason why.

 

[trojanfan12]

I can't imagine that the Sixers will rush him back. Bayless and McConnell are serviceable and occasionally good PGs. A gimpy Fultz doesn't help this team. I would imagine they would sooner table him for the first half of the season than rush him forward.

That would seem to be the best move, especially if they have guys who can step up. Any idea why it took them so long to finally sit him?

 

[flyerhawk]

That would seem to be the best move, especially if they have guys who can step up. Any idea why it took them so long to finally sit him?

I am really baffled by this.

My guess is that Fultz was constantly downplaying the injury and that nothing was showing up on MRIs.

Fultz really didn't play a lot in the pre-season due to shoulder and knee soreness. But it's possible that Fultz was able to convince the coaches that he was ok. So they let him play. Perhaps the coaches thought he was going to get back to normal once the real games started. After 3 games, they realized that there was a problem that Fultz wasn't copping to.

It's the only explanation that makes sense. The Sixers specifically built this team to reduce the dependency on Fultz. So why press it?

 

[trojanfan12]

I am really baffled by this.

My guess is that Fultz was constantly downplaying the injury and that nothing was showing up on MRIs.

Fultz really didn't play a lot in the pre-season due to shoulder and knee soreness. But it's possible that Fultz was able to convince the coaches that he was ok. So they let him play. Perhaps the coaches thought he was going to get back to normal once the real games started. After 3 games, they realized that there was a problem that Fultz wasn't copping to.

It's the only explanation that makes sense. The Sixers specifically built this team to reduce the dependency on Fultz. So why press it?

Yeah, that seems plausible. At any rate, he's finally getting it dealt with, which is good. Hopefully he won't be out too long. Even if he does miss significant time, at least he'll come back healthy.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, that seems plausible. At any rate, he's finally getting it dealt with, which is good. Hopefully he won't be out too long. Even if he does miss significant time, at least he'll come back healthy.

Yeah. Personally I was expecting very little from Fultz this year. The Sixers are gunning for the playoffs this year and that isn't going to happen with a rookie PG rotating from the point and the 2 depending on who is on the court.

Even when healthy I would be surprised to see him eclipse 20-25 minutes a game at best.

 

[knowyourenemy]

No, when you make a post that shows once and for all just how little you know about basketball, it makes it clear that your posts are a waste of time.

Hilarious that you can't see the difference between shots typically taken by PF's vs. those that are typiccally taken by guards.

You really should be embarrassed. The fact that you aren't only further illustrates what a waste of time your posts are.

The fact that you think the shots Simmons are taking are ones "typically taken by PF's" shows that you're a clown that hasn't watched a single second of Simmons play this year. Just because a shot is at the rim or within 3 feet of the basket doesn't mean it's a shot that you typically see power forwards take.

You should be embarrassed. You're a moderator on this board and all you do is end up losing meaningless pissing matches to people who apparently don't know anything about basketball.