The Master Vent Thread-Negativity Within-Enter at Your Own Risk

[27mtrcougar]

Yes the hate is stronger then my love

It's funny how he set this completion record, yet he had no one to throw to? And he did it behind a terrible oline, that gave up 34 sacks, yet projected for the same amount of passes Griffin would have gotten sacked -about 45 times, and he's a mobile QB, I wonder how many times Bradford would have been sacked behind that much better oline?

Not really funny. I woud say impressive!!

 

[Smed55]

Yes the hate is stronger then my love


Not really funny. I woud say impressive!!

You're right, not only is he impressive, he's amazing, and dreamy!

 

[Vitamike]

Any one that knows football knew Amendola before than, he was a good WR!

I will give you the most passes without an interception , but of course you know I'm going to say that I remember everyone one of those was a screen pass! I kid with you, yes? Hey, I give that one to you!

As far as the completions, that record would have been blown away had Griffin thrown the ball another 200 times, but he didn't, so Sammie still can hold onto that record, also with the same amount of passes Griffin projects to 30 TD passes and about 7 int and just under 5,000 yards passing, a better team maybe, but they weren't that good as some of you might think! Those numbers would blow Sammie away on top of completing over 65% of his passes! Just saying!

But of course we will never know, so Sammie can hold onto those records for now,

Danny started 2 games for the Rams in 2009 for 43 catches and 329 yards. Before that, he was on both the Cowboys and Eagles practice squads. I'd say that qualifies him as a virtual unknown as I said.

LOL it's amazing the things you latch onto. That was just a passing comment in my post but the fact is, it still holds true to the point, that Sam's leading receiver had very little NFL experience.

I guess more to the point I was making, outside of Danny who had 24% of the Catches from Sam's current rookie record of 354 completions, he didn't have any WR better or one who has played a significant role elsewhere.

 

[Vitamike]

Ya, it's kind of like Sammie was projected to be a star!
Yadda yadda!

I'll tell you why you lost me after 'projected for'....

Because, he didn't do it. I do think it's interesting though but we can't compare projected out stats to real stats in the real world. Besides, you didn't let Coug project out Sam's stats in 2013 after the ACL tear to make his argument about how Sam's season would have penciled out, did you?

Again it's interesting and actually more authentic because of the lost opportunity due to lost playing time.

Your projections require either more playing time or trading the play that actually occurred, which neither could of happened.

Robert ran the ball instead which opened up his passing game, so it doesn't pencil out. Oh and all those roughing the passer 1st downs off of the run option extended drives too! It was a rule book flaw that was corrected the next season however his rookie year, he took advantage of it as he should have. Also all those DC's figured out how to shut it down too so it wasn't sustainable moving forward and that is one reason why he has failed since outside of his injuries.

 

[Smed55]

Danny started 2 games for the Rams in 2009 for 43 catches and 329 yards. Before that, he was on both the Cowboys and Eagles practice squads. I'd say that qualifies him as a virtual unknown as I said.

LOL it's amazing the things you latch onto. That was just a passing comment in my post but the fact is, it still holds true to the point, that Sam's leading receiver had very little NFL
I guess more to the point I was making, outside of Danny who had 24% of the Catches from Sam's current rookie record of 354 completions, he didn't have any WR better or one who has played a significant role elsewhere.

It's amzazing how bad and horrible the Ram receivers were, who in the hell was Sammie throwing to then?

 

[Smed55]

I'll tell you why you lost me after 'projected for'....

Because, he didn't do it. I do think it's interesting though but we can't compare projected out stats to real stats in the real world. Besides, you didn't let Coug project out Sam's stats in 2013 after the ACL tear to make his argument about how Sam's season would have penciled out, did you?







Again it's interesting and actually more authentic because of the lost opportunity due to lost playing time.

Your projections require either more playing time or trading the play that actually occurred, which neither could of happened.



Robert ran the ball instead which opened up his passing game, so it doesn't pencil out. Oh and all those roughing the passer 1st downs off of the run option extended drives too! It was a rule book flaw that was corrected the next season however his rookie year, he took advantage of it as he should have. Also all those DC's figured out how to shut it down too so it wasn't sustainable moving forward and that is one reason why he has failed since outside of his injuries.

I do believe I said we will never know because it didn't happen!

I didn't "let" Coug pencil out Sammies 2013 season, I didn't know I had that much power?

Yes projections are just that, projections, people and analyst do it all the time, doesn't mean it's going to happen but it's the closest thing to make comparisons when the comparisons that some people try to make aren't even , you know like Sammie throwing the ball more than 200 times than Griffin his rookie year!

You can say all you want about Griffin and the rules, doesn't take away the fact that he got sacked more often than Sammie, so that has nothing to do with the rules, kind of has something to do with the oline! Defenses put eight in the box against Jackson consistently all that year, that should as you say open up Sammies passing game, Griffin didn't have that?

As far as "all" those roughing the passer calls , how many exactly was that? Ya, I don't know, but it's probably less than you think!

You accuse me of going off subject all the time, yet you bring up projecting Sammies 2013 season, tell me again what that has to do with Sammie and Griffins rookie years?

 

[Smed55]

Yes the hate is stronger then my love


Not really funny. I woud say impressive!!

That is absolutely impossible Coug, I don't hate Sammie, but I don't think anyone could possibly hate another human being as much as you love your amazing Sammie! I swear there have been times where I think I actually saw drool on some of your Sammie love rants!

 

[Vitamike]

I do believe I said we will never know because it didn't happen!

I didn't "let" Coug pencil out Sammies 2013 season, I didn't know I had that much power?

So literal Smed! It was just a figure of speech. In other words, as I recall, you gave him a bunch of shit for it.

Yes projections are just that, projections, people and analyst do it all the time, doesn't mean it's going to happen but it's the closest thing to make comparisons when the comparisons that some people try to make aren't even , you know like Sammie throwing the ball more than 200 times than Griffin his rookie year!

You can say all you want about Griffin and the rules, doesn't take away the fact that he got sacked more often than Sammie, so that has nothing to do with the rules, kind of has something to do with the oline! Defenses put eight in the box against Jackson consistently all that year, that should as you say open up Sammies passing game, Griffin didn't have that?

I think you very well know the circumstances involved with run options QB's also the circumstances that included a very efficient running back that you want to dismiss because he was a rookie. The both of them benefited from the rules surrounding late hits on the QB. If you can't concede just say so. No need to argue ad nauseam.

By the way, running QB's get sacked a lot. Mainly because they hang on to the ball so long believing they can make something happen from the backfield and always take off. That's has been my biggest bitch about UCLA's Brett Hundley.

As far as "all" those roughing the passer calls , how many exactly was that?

I watched a lot of RGIII, I saw it happen a lot more than you may think. Still defenses had to adjust as best they could. It helped him out in the big picture.

Ya, I don't know, but it's probably less than you think!

You accuse me of going off subject all the time, yet you bring up projecting Sammies 2013 season, tell me again what that has to do with Sammie and Griffins rookie years?

LOL, you brought up projecting out numbers. Sam was off to a good statistical year prior to his injury. I thought with that scenario you would see the problem in projecting out things like that.

Okay, so I tried to answer all of your questions as best I could. You asked a lot of them.

What was your point again?

 

[Smed55]

So literal Smed! It was just a figure of speech. In other words, as I recall, you gave him a bunch of shit for it.

I think you very well know the circumstances involved with run options QB's also the circumstances that included a very efficient running back that you want to dismiss because he was a rookie. The both of them benefited from the rules surrounding late hits on the QB. If you can't concede just say so. No need to argue ad nauseam.


By the way, running QB's get sacked a lot. Mainly because they hang on to the ball so long believing they can make something happen from the backfield and always take off. That's has been my biggest bitch about UCLA's Brett Hundley.

I watched a lot of RGIII, I saw it happen a lot more than you may think. Still defenses had to adjust as best they could. It helped
him out in the big picture.

LOL, you brought up projecting out numbers. Sam was off to a good statistical year prior to his injury. I thought with that scenario you would see the problem in projecting out things like that.


Okay, so I tried to answer all of your questions as best I could. You asked a lot of them.

What was your point again?

Again I guess RGIII being a mobile QB helped him avoid numerous sacks, otherwise he would have been sacked even more!

As far as running QBs hanging on to the ball longer, maybe Sammie could try that instead of dumping it off
any time there is a "hint" of pressure.

As far as Letting Coug project Sammies 2013 season, I'm pretty sure we were discussing their rookie years, in your words, what was your point again there?
If you want to talk about that, bring it up after next year and we can compare or project Griffins 4th year to Sammies 4th year lol!

As far as Morris, I think maybe Griffin might have had a little something to do with Morris being so successful.


Good to great QB's make their teams better, average QB's look for excuses, bad QB's just fail! Just saying!

 

[Smed55]

So literal Smed! It was just a figure of speech. In other words, as I recall, you gave him a bunch of shit for it.

I think you very well know the circumstances involved with run options QB's also the circumstances that included a very efficient running back that you want to dismiss because he was a rookie. The both of them benefited from the rules surrounding late hits on the QB. If you can't concede just say so. No need to argue ad nauseam.



By the way, running QB's get sacked a lot. Mainly because they hang on to the ball so long believing they can make something happen from the backfield and always take off. That's has been my biggest bitch about UCLA's Brett Hundley.

I watched a lot of RGIII, I saw it happen a lot more than you may think. Still defenses had to adjust as best they could. It helped


him out in the big picture.

LOL, you brought up projecting out numbers. Sam was off to a good statistical year prior to his injury. I thought with that scenario you would see the problem in projecting out things like that.

Okay, so I tried to answer all of your questions as best I could. You asked a lot of them.


What was your point again?

And I'm not saying that projections are the end all be all. Of course it's subjective, obviously stats could easily be better or worse, depends on who youre playing, weather conditions, nagging injury, a couple of Olineman hurt. But people use them everyday, at the beginning of the season there are magazines that come out that "project" every skill players projected stats for the year!

As I said, it isn't an exact science or anything close to it, but it can be a barometer to what someone could possibly do. I think a whole year of stats can be a good indicator, a partial season isnt as good an indicator.

Bottom line you can say whatever you want, if you think Sammie had a great year, good for you! As far as I'm concerned helping your team make the playoffs your first year, I'll take that, that's something I haven't seen with my team in pushing 15 years!
I think that would be "great" but than again my idea of great is skewed!

 

[Vitamike]

Again I guess RGIII being a mobile QB helped him avoid numerous sacks, otherwise he would have been sacked even more!

We just disagree here. There is a huge difference between a mobile QB and a QB with escapability. Some have both, and I think that is what sets guys like Wilson, Rivers and Brees apart from the mobile QB tag.

As far as running QBs hanging on to the ball longer, maybe Sammie could try that instead of dumping it off
any time there is a "hint" of pressure.

Maybe? Although in his Rookie & 2nd year, hanging onto the ball was a knock on Sam.

As far as Letting Coug project Sammies 2013 season, I'm pretty sure we were discussing their rookie years, in your words, what was your point again there?

That comment was more of a joke on me because I sometimes get lost in all your disdain for anyone who has a positive take on Sam. It makes my head spin.

If you want to talk about that, bring it up after next year and we can compare or project Griffins 4th year to Sammies 4th year lol!

As far as Morris, I think maybe Griffin might have had a little something to do with Morris being so successful.

While I agree Griffin had something to do with Morris, I still believe they helped each other. Just like Marshawn and Russell do.

Good to great QB's make their teams better, average QB's look for excuses, bad QB's just fail! Just saying!

Okay, Sam has not had a great pro season thus far. He had a great 'Rookie' season. (There is a difference) Sam's accolades his Rookie year prove that to me and whether you want to concede that or not is up to you. Just because Robert had a fantastic Rookie season doesn't change that for me. I think Robert's was more of a one trick pony type season and you already know my reason why on that.

Like you, my hope if we get Sam back at QB this year is we see a healthy Sam Bradford from here on out. Then maybe he will shut one of us up about his skills and ability.

I'm just not convinced Sam can make it through a season healthy again and that is my biggest problem in sticking with Sam.

 

[Smed55]

We just disagree here. There is a huge difference between a mobile QB and a QB with escapability. Some have both, and I think that is what sets guys like Wilson, Rivers and Brees apart from the mobile QB tag.

Maybe? Although in his Rookie & 2nd year, hanging onto the ball was a knock on Sam.








That comment was more of a joke on me because I sometimes get lost in all your disdain for anyone who has a positive take on Sam. It makes my head spin.


While I agree Griffin had something to do with Morris, I still believe they helped each other. Just like Marshawn and Russell do.


Okay, Sam has not had a great pro season thus far. He had a great 'Rookie' season. (There is a difference) Sam's accolades his Rookie year prove that to me and whether you want to concede that or not is up to you. Just because Robert had a fantastic Rookie season doesn't change that for me. I think Robert's was more of a one trick pony type season and you already know my reason why on tha


Like you, my hope if we get Sam back at QB this year is we see a healthy Sam Bradford from here on out. Then maybe he will shut one of us up about his skills and ability.

I'm just not convinced Sam can make it through a season healthy again and that is my biggest problem in


sticking with Sam.

I do think Bradford has talent! I do hope he takes us to the promised land, I don't want to start all over again next year if Sammie fails or gets hurt again! I don't care if he is great, at this point He doesnt have to be, I think him being average and healthy with this team we can succeed!


As I have told Coug, until Sammie can put up back to back seasons I will continue to try to quell the unwarranted love and praise he is heaping on him!

I was never a Bradford supporter, but after the constant love and praise that I kept seeing in here, I just had to try to counter that, and obviously it has snowballed. I want us to win, I'm tired of the losing, if Sammie is the guy, I'm fine with that!

As far as RGIII being a one trick pony, I don't know about that? He has also had his injury issues, like Bradford I think he came back to early. I watched the guy a lot when he played at Baylor and I lived there, the guy can throw the ball, of course that was in college but when healthy the guy completes a high percentage of passes, and the more passes you complete the more chances there are of something good happening!

 

[Smed55]

Vita

You actually said "Okay, Sam has not had a great pro season thus far"

I can't believe you said that! Ok I'm justing busting your balls, I knew you meant "career"

 

[Vitamike]

As far as RGIII being a one trick pony, I don't know about that? He has also had his injury issues, like Bradford I think he came back to early. I watched the guy a lot when he played at Baylor and I lived there, the guy can throw the ball, of course that was in college but when healthy the guy completes a high percentage of passes, and the more passes you complete the more chances there are of something good happening!

After the rule change on run options QB's the next year and DC's catching up on ways to defend the run option QB, Robert was exposed for his bad mechanics, namely his footwork of all things. Sure his injury did him no favors but even when he has been healthy he has struggled for the most part since he Rookie season.

I believe he can get it straightened out but he is going to have to work at it hard. Those things aren't easily
remedied and I'm not sure he has the courage or is humble enough to make the necessary change.

I like the dude, I hope he prove me wrong.

 

[Vitamike]

Vita

You actually said "Okay, Sam has not had a great pro season thus far"

I can't believe you said that! Ok I'm justing busting your balls, I knew you meant "career"

No, I meant what I said.

Not one season has been great in the pros comparatively to other great QB's in the league. His Rookie season was ONLY 'great' because he was a Rookie. In other words, he had a 'great rookie season'. Just average to good numbers for a QB in any other season outside of maybe a Sophomore season.

He was off to a pretty damn good start statistically the season when he first tore his ACL (Outside the pocket I might add ) . He had a chance to do something, especially with Zac Stacy coming along later that year! It would of been interesting to see what could have been but that's about it.

You don't get a 'great' season from me unless you put up a seasons worth of great numbers or I guess unless you're a Rookie compared to other Rookies who have come before you.

 

[Rambunctious]

Even Sams best games in his rookie season fell short in my opinion but he did show some promise before he tore his knee up but nothing to write home about. I hope he is working on his game this off season. I hope he is not the type of player that thinks all he needs to do is step onto the field and be great...it takes hard work...especially when he is rehabbing a knee as well.

 

[Vitamike]

Even Sams best games in his rookie season fell short in my opinion but he did show some promise before he tore his knee up but nothing to write home about. I hope he is working on his game this off season. I hope he is not the type of player that thinks all he needs to do is step onto the field and be great...it takes hard work...especially when he is rehabbing a knee as well.

I agree to some degree as long as we are talking tenured NFL QB's and not Rookies.

As far as your hope Buctious, Sam has always been known as a hard worker kind of guy. I concern even if healthy is the 'big game'.

He hasn't really been that successful in those scenarios throughout his Football Career!

Then again, I guess it's how you quantify the 'big game'.....

 

[Smed55]

Even Sams best games in his rookie season fell short in my opinion but he did show some promise before he tore his knee up but nothing to write home about. I hope he is working on his game this off season. I hope he is not the type of player that thinks all he needs to do is step onto the field and be great...it takes hard work...especially when he is rehabbing a knee as well.

I'm hearing you, and also comprehending what you are saying! And I agree!

 

[27mtrcougar]

I'm hearing you, and also comprehending what you are saying! And I agree!

Yeah because I guess he didn't work hard the first rehab to come back and let see... He could have just retired and said screw it after his second knee but no he's coming back. Yet now we have to wonder about what kind of person he is and how hard he works?? ...

 

[27mtrcougar]

Even Sams best games in his rookie season fell short in my opinion but he did show some promise before he tore his knee up but nothing to write home about. I hope he is working on his game this off season. I hope he is not the type of player that thinks all he needs to do is step onto the field and be great...it takes hard work...especially when he is rehabbing a knee as well.

Right he fell short lol... How many rookie QB's that were just throw into the fire on that terrible team. (How many games did they win the year before again) would have made it to the next season? Very few. But he goes out and wins ROY. I guess you were expecting a deep playoff run maybe ?