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The Master Vent Thread-Negativity Within-Enter at Your Own Risk

Smed55

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Hey, Robert had a great season, one of the best ever for a rookie (Assisted by unique circumstances and NFL rules unwarrantedly protecting the run option QB's (Evident by the rule change) and DC's trying to catch up to run option QB play.

Besides, I never said he wasn't on a bad team but the only way you are on a team worse than 32, which the Rams were as you pointed out, is to be

It is no secret that the Rams were the worst team in professional sports EVER over a 5 year period prior to Sam's arrival in 2010. :L

WORST TEAM IN ANY SPORT EVER OVER A 5 YEAR TIME FRAME!


DAMN, that's coming to a bad team!!!!


Griffin had a great rookie year with a poor team the year prior, Sam had a great rookie year with the worst team in sports EVER over a 5 year period.


Your standards aren't high, you are maybe but not your standards.... :pound:


Your standards are skewed!


Yes, and I guess Sammie was apart of that team being one of the worst over a 5 year period, but why just stop there, there are 4 other teams that have been worse than the Rams over a period of time, so let's get off the excuse that but poor Sammie was on one of the worst reams ever, well Sammie, make them better!

It's easy to recognize the best teams in the NFL. They regularly appear in the postseason and the elite have a Vince Lombardi Trophy or two on display.
Surprisingly, the league's worst teams are fairly easy to identify too. They're constantly starting over with new general managers, coaches and players. Then, three to five years later the cycle begins again.
The following ten teams have spent so much time digging in at the starting line building their teams that they've forgotton to run the race.

10) Dallas Cowboys
Record 86-74; 5 Seasons Over .500, 3 at .500; 3 Playoff Appearances, Record 1-3
Take a look at the Cowboys' record over the past ten seasons. They've had five winning seasons and three seasons where they won just as many as they lost. Eight years of relative success over the past decade and only three playoff appearances and just one win to show for it. That's failure in the way only Jerry Jones can accomplish it.
If Jones ran his oil and gas interests the way he's run his football team over the past decade he wouldn't be able to afford a ticket at his own stadium to watch a Cowboys game.
Dallas has finished 8-8 in all three seasons of Jason Garrett's coaching tenure. That's perfect mediocrity. It shows that through all their troubles, the Cowboys can still excel at something.
9) Kansas City Chiefs
Record 66-93; 4 Seasons Over .500; 3 Playoff Appearances, Record 0-2 (2013 TBD)
The Chiefs seem to enjoy flirting with respectability every few seasons only to go on a bender and collapse face down back into the league's gutter.
In 2006 they made the playoffs and lost their Wild Card Round game to the Indianapolis Colts. Four seasons later they made another appearance in the Wild Card round and also lost. Now they are making another attempt, again against the Colts.
They challenge now for the Chiefs is to continue the success that they've rediscovered this season. This time they're coached by Andy Reid, who achieved sustained success in his first head coaching position with the Eagles.
Odds are good that the Chiefs will avoid their usual fall after their latest trip to the playoffs and may even return again next season.
8) Jacksonville Jaguars
Record 71-89; 3 Seasons Over .500; 2 Seasons at .500; 2 Playoff Appearances, Record 1-2
The Jaguars may be one game better than the Texans over the past ten years and have an overall record superior to the Chiefs but their current streak six season streak of suck-ritude is more impressive than what either of those teams have been able to accomplish.
The Jaguars are so bad (how bad are they?) that they brought in a bad quarterback with a sub-.500 record to back up Blaine Gabbert, one of the worst starting quarterbacks in the NFL over the three seasons of his career; so much for the tenth overall pick in the 2011 NFL Draft.
To add insult to insult, the Jaguars four wins in five games streak played them out of a position to draft the quarterback of their choice in 2014. Still, they should still be in position to select a capable quarterback to get the ball to Justin Blackmon next season, provided Blackmon has returned from his indefinite suspension for violating the NFL's substance abuse policy by then.
7) Washington Redskins
Record 66-94; 3 Seasons Over .500, 1 at .500; 3 Playoff Appearances, Record 1-3
Except for 2013, when the Redskins rode a seven game win streak to earn the right to get trampled by the Seattle Seahawks in the Wild Card Round, they've been so bad that if Joe Gibbs and Joe Theismann were both dead, they'd be spinning in their graves.
The Redskins' play over the past few seasons has inspired their fans to a point where, starting with a 91,000 capacity stadium in 2010, they reduced the number of seats to 83,000 for the 2011 season and dropped another 4,000 seats prior to their 2012 kickoff.
If owner Dan Snyder keeps maximizing his team's value he'll be able to squeeze the Redskins into Nationals Park and share it with the baseball team.
6) Miami Dolphins
Record 66-94; 2 Seasons Over .500, 1 at .500; 1 Playoff Appearance, 0-1
The Miami Dolphins had two head coaches in their first 30 years of existence. In that time the franchise made 16 postseason appearances and played in five Super Bowls, winning two.
In the ensuing 18 years they've had eight head coaches, six postseason appearances and have never won their way past the Divisional Round.
Their latest collapse has fans around the NFL wondering if head coach number nine is on the way. The Dolphins only had to beat the Jets in Week 17 to lock-up a playoff spot. Their failure locked them up with the Jets for second place in the AFC East.
5) Buffalo Bills
Record 63-96; 1 Season Over .500, 0 Playoff Appearances
The Bills have had two golden eras during the franchise's existence. Neither of those make the past 10 years easier to take for Bills fans.
The Bills have been able to achieve this past decade of "foul play" in a couple of different ways. They've won early in the year and lost late, they lost early and won late, or most often by establishing a standard of awfulness for the entire season. The one consistency over this time for Buffalo is they've annually had one of the worst passing attacks in the NFL.
In the 2013 NFL Draft the Browns selected E.J. Manuel as the quarterback they believe will reverse that trend. Whether he will develop to the standards of Jim Kelly or Ryan Fitzpatrick remains to be seen.
4) St. Louis Rams
Record 51-108-1; 0 Seasons Over .500, 2 at .500; 1 Playoff Appearance, 1-1
Up to the past 10 years the Rams' offense was nicknamed "The Greatest Show on Turf." The team tanked right at the time that show closed and they've been battling with success ever since, usually unsuccessfully.
What has contributed to the teams problems the past few years is, when given the choice staying the course with a former first overall draft choice quarterback who had compiled a 15-26-1 record over three seasons or selecting RGIII No. 2 overall in the 2012 NFL Draft to rebuild around, they stayed the course with the loser.
The Rams made one positive move when they hired Jeff Fisher as head coach. Their next step needs to be, keep this latest second overall draft pack, go back to the well again and get the franchise quarterback building-block correct. They'll be living in the basement of the NFC West until they do.
3) Cleveland Browns
Record 51-109; 1 Season Over .500, 0 Playoff Appearances
It sucks Cuyahoga River water to be a Cleveland Browns fan over the past decade. It has to be knife in the gut painful to see the former Browns franchise appear in the playoffs nine times and win two Super Bowls.
Cleveland has gone through more franchise quarterbacks over the past 10 years than the Raiders have coaches. Cleveland fans have had a better chance at winning the lottery than their team has had in getting a quarterback decision correct.
On the bright side for the Browns, it's possible this time that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't really a train heading straight towards them. This team has a lot of young talent on both sides of the ball. With Rob Chudzinski now fired after the Browns' latest fiasco of a season it remains to be seen if Cleveland can find a coach who can teach that talent how to win games in the NFL.
2) Oakland Raiders
Record 49-111; 0 Seasons Over .500, 2 at .500; 0 Playoff Appearances
At one time the Raiders set a standard for excellence in the NFL. That standard may have been built on the backs of has beens, rejects and trouble-makers but they combined to form some damn good football teams.
Oakland made it to the Super Bowl after the 2002 season. In 2003 they were crushed flatter than Wile E Coyote under a boulder. They finished the year 5-11. Since then, the closest the Raiders have come to the playoffs is when they buy tickets and cross the bay to watch the 49ers in action.
The team of Lamonica, Stabler, Plunkett and Gannon has become the team of Culpepper, Russell, Pryor and McGloin. Al Davis' old battle cry of "Just win, baby!" has become "Please win, maybe?"
As for the Raiders' chances of putting themselves back together to dominate the NFL again, those are as good as Wile E's chances of finally catching the Roadrunner.
1) Detroit Lions
Record 50-110; 1 Season Over .500; 1 Playoff Appearance, 0-1
 

Vitamike

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Geez Smead, we are so far off topic here your post looks like spam!

I'll stick with my belief that Sam had a great college freshman season as well as a great rookie season and you go on with your hate that they were not.

Trying to decided if the 2009 Rams were worse than the 2011 Skins is far from the argument. They both sucked and both Robert and Sam had great seasons.
 
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Retroram52

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You are not going to get an active coach to badmouth any player because in this day an age, coaches have become diplomats to save their own jobs, Vita. I believe John Gruden recently stated that Bradford's skill set may be found wanting especially as it relates to scrambling ability but it wasn't an extensive diatribe. Just a passing comment during the broadcast of a Monday night game.

Again, there are not going to be many negative Nancys coming from that sector of the NFL. And I am still primarily on the fence with this Sammie issue. I want to see how he does with being healthy and some talent around him but his window of opportunity is closing.

I was just providing some clarity to this back-n-forth between cougar and Smed because the both of them have beaten this issue till there is no tissue left on that dead horse.
 

Smed55

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Geez Smead, we are so far off topic here your post looks like spam!

I'll stick with my belief that Sam had a great college freshman season as well as a great rookie season and you go on with your hate that they were not.

Trying to decided if the 2009 Rams were worse than the 2011 Skins is far from the argument. They both sucked and both Robert and Sam had great seasons.
Geez Smead, we are so far off topic here your post looks like spam!


Well I guess anything negative about Sammie, would be considered spam by some of you!

I'll stick with my belief that Sam had a great college freshman season as well as a great rookie season and you go on with your hate that they were not.

Trying to decided if the 2009 Rams were worse than the 2011 Skins is far from the argument. They both sucked and both Robert and Sam had great seasons.
 

Vitamike

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You are not going to get an active coach to badmouth any player because in this day an age, coaches have become diplomats to save their own jobs, Vita. I believe John Gruden recently stated that Bradford's skill set may be found wanting especially as it relates to scrambling ability but it wasn't an extensive diatribe. Just a passing comment during the broadcast of a Monday night game.

Again, there are not going to be many negative Nancys coming from that sector of the NFL. And I am still primarily on the fence with this Sammie issue. I want to see how he does with being healthy and some talent around him but his window of opportunity is closing.

I was just providing some clarity to this back-n-forth between cougar and Smed because the both of them have beaten this issue till there is no tissue left on that dead horse.
I remember that exchange between Jon Gruden and Ron Jaworski. He wasn't as down on Sam as he was high on RGIII.


Other than that Retro, I don't know, I can't find anything from Jon Gruden.

I'm not sold on your fraternity scenario either, I believe it doesn't hold true with other QB's or even players.

Ironically, not long ago both Mike Shannahan and Jon's brother Jay had a lot of poor things to say about Robert Griffin III regarding his skill set....

I do understand about the back and forth between Smead and Coug.

They are both relentless!
It appeared they went at it all night, last night! :lol:
 

Smed55

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Geez Smead, we are so far off topic here your post looks like spam!

I'll stick with my belief that Sam had a great college freshman season as well as a great rookie season and you go on with your hate that they were not.

Trying to decided if the 2009 Rams were worse than the 2011 Skins is far from the argument. They both sucked and both Robert
and Sam had great seasons.


And I think in today's sports world, the term great is used all to often with anybody!
 

Smed55

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I remember that exchange between Jon Gruden and Ron Jaworski. He wasn't as down on Sam as he was high on RGIII.


Other than that Retro, I don't know, I can't find anything from Jon Gruden.



I'm not sold on your fraternity scenario either, I believe it doesn't hold true with other QB's or even players.

Ironically, not long ago both Mike Shannahan and Jon's brother Jay had a lot of poor things to say about Robert Griffin III regarding his skill set....

I do understand about the back and forth between Smead and Coug.

They are both relentless!
It appeared they went at it all night, last night! :lol:


Hey now, if you want the naked truth, I never touched him let alone went at it all night with him! Even if wanted, I'd be in line behind Sammie!:)
 

Smed55

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Geez Smead, we are so far off topic here your post looks like spam!

I'll stick with my belief that Sam had a great college freshman season as well as a great rookie season and you go on with your hate that they were not.

Trying to decided if the 2009 Rams were worse than the 2011 Skins is far from the argument. They both sucked and both Robert
and Sam had great seasons.

I'm pretty sure Ive said it numerous times that Sammie had a good freshman year and a "great" sophomore year, and I don't heap "greats" out there flippantly like some people do
 

Smed55

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You are not going to get an active coach to badmouth any player because in this day an age, coaches have become diplomats to save their own jobs, Vita. I believe John Gruden recently stated that Bradford's skill set may be found wanting especially as it relates to scrambling ability but it wasn't an extensive diatribe. Just a passing comment during the broadcast of a Monday night game.

Again, there are not going to be many negative Nancys coming from that sector of the NFL. And I am still primarily on the fence
with this Sammie issue. I want to see how he does with being healthy and some talent around him but his window of opportunity is closing.

I was just providing some clarity to this back-n-forth between cougar and Smed because the both of them have beaten this issue till there is no tissue left on that dead horse.


I agree, there are some analyst/announcers that will make some negative remarks, but most guys aren't going to rip someone In public, they might think it, but i dont think the average Joe is going to say it. Most concentrate on the strong points of players!

As far as me and Coug, it's all good, and I don't need tissue to beat that horse, I've been known to beat bone:) as long as the Coug continues his insane man love for Sammie, I will be the counter weight to that to try to keep things even. Yes I go to the extreme the other way, but that's the only way it will balance out! And I don't hate Sammie, really I don't, he is our QB this year and I hope we go to the playoffs, I'm tired of watching us lose!
 

Vitamike

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And I think in today's sports world, the term great is used all to often with anybody!
Just so we are on the same page....

Great = Of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above the normal or average.

When one breaks multiple records of sure fire first ballot HOFers and ones name is numerously listed with other sure fire HOFers for milestones or specific seasons markers, most would consider that individual considerably above the norm.
 

Smed55

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So we are on the same page....

Great = Of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above the normal or average.

When one breaks multiple records of sure fire first ballot HOFers and ones name numerously connected with other sure fire HOFers, I would consider that individual considerably above the norm.


Again, what record stands out the most to set the other records, oh that's right he threw the ball almost 600 times!

It's like why does Favre hold all the records, ummm because he played forever and threw the ball alot, the only difference is the one record that stands out more than all the others, the guy never missed a game! Big difference from the Golden Boy

How many rookie passing records have been set recently, oh that's right RGIII, Newton, and Luck have all
set some kind of rookie record in the past couple of years, it's a passing league, what used to maybe be great is now different. It's like with Luck, he was hyped pretty much and it's like these guys are expected to excel and with some players they are expected to put up the kind of numbers they are.

It's a different game now, I think we are seeing more rookie QB's that come out and start right away, so of course records are going to fall! The passing stats from rookies in the last CENTURY aren't going to compare to the new passing game of this century!



The college game has also changed, maybe you have noticed there is a lot more passing?
 

Retroram52

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I remember that exchange between Jon Gruden and Ron Jaworski. He wasn't as down on Sam as he was high on RGIII.


Other than that Retro, I don't know, I can't find anything from Jon Gruden.

I'm not sold on your fraternity scenario either, I believe it doesn't hold true with other QB's or even players.

Ironically, not long ago both Mike Shannahan and Jon's brother Jay had a lot of poor things to say about Robert Griffin III regarding his skill set....

I do understand about the back and forth between Smead and Coug.

They are both relentless!
It appeared they went at it all night, last night! :lol:
The only other place Gruden commented on Sammie is when he has a fresh new crop of QB's he runs through his QB University right before the draft. I remember Gruden comparing a young QB to Sammie and he had mentioned that Sammie's skill set was not as great as some had attributed to him. Strictly memory. You'll won't find any quotes from those shows unless you have access to those tapes and that is way too much work just satisfy your question.
 

Vitamike

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Again, what record stands out the most to set the other records, oh that's right he threw the ball almost 600 times!

It's like why does Favre hold all the records, ummm because he played forever and threw the ball alot, the only difference is the one record that stands out more than all the others, the guy never missed a game! Big difference from the Golden Boy

How many rookie passing records have been set recently, oh that's right RGIII, Newton, and Luck have all
set some kind of rookie record in the past couple of years, it's a passing league, what used to maybe be great is now different. It's like with Luck, he was hyped pretty much and it's like these guys are expected to excel and with some players they are expected to put up the kind of numbers they are.

It's a different game now, I think we are seeing more rookie QB's that come out and start right away, so of course records are going to fall! The passing stats from rookies in the last CENTURY aren't going to compare to the new passing game of this century!



The college game has also changed, maybe you have noticed there is a lot more passing?
It's not about any one record that stands out the most. It was the global aspect of his body of work and that he did it on a very, very crappy team.

If you want to focus on a couple of specific marks, go to the ones he still holds today.

Most consecutive passes attempted, none intercepted, rookie season: 169, Sam Bradford 2010
Most pass completions, rookie, season: 354, Sam Bradford, 2010[1]

Now consider that Danny Amendola was Sam's leading receiver for the majority of those completions and that Danny was a virtual unknown prior to Sam's arrival. Danny had 43 receptions the year prior and only 85 of Sam's current rookie record or 354.

The other dude who contributed in a large manner to those 354 completions of Sam's was Brandon Gibson whoes career virtually ended as a major player after his affiliation with Sam.
 

Vitamike

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The only other place Gruden commented on Sammie is when he has a fresh new crop of QB's he runs through his QB University right before the draft. I remember Gruden comparing a young QB to Sammie and he had mentioned that Sammie's skill set was not as great as some had attributed to him. Strictly memory. You'll won't find any quotes from those shows unless you have access to those tapes and that is way too much work just satisfy your question.
Respectfully Retro, I will take that as defacto however I really, really wanted to clown on you for the sake of fun.

Damn you and your reverence! :lol:
 

Retroram52

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Never underestimate the power of old age and treachery, Vita! LOL!!
 

Vitamike

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Never underestimate the power of old age and treachery, Vita! LOL!!
Unfortunately about that age thing, I'm right behind you bro.






Hey, anyone seen Zark? :noidea:


.
 

Smed55

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It's not about any one record that stands out the most. It was the global aspect of his body of work and that he did it on a very, very crappy team.

If you want to focus on a couple of specific marks, go to the ones he still holds today.
Most consecutive passes attempted, none intercepted, rookie season: 169, Sam Bradford 2010
Most pass completions, rookie, season: 354, Sam Bradford, 2010[1]

Now consider that Danny Amendola was Sam's leading receiver for the majority of those completions and that Danny was a virtual unknown prior to Sam's arrival. Danny had 43 receptions the year prior and only 85 of Sam's current rookie record or 354.

The other dude who contributed in a large manner to those 354 completions of Sam's was Brandon Gibson whoes career virtually
ended as a major player after his affiliation with Sam.

Any one that knows football knew Amendola before than, he was a good WR!

I will give you the most passes without an interception , but of course you know I'm going to say that I remember everyone one of those was a screen pass! I kid with you, yes? Hey, I give that one to you!

As far as the completions, that record would have been blown away had Griffin thrown the ball another 200 times, but he didn't, so Sammie still can hold onto that record, also with the same amount of passes Griffin projects to 30 TD passes and about 7 int and just under 5,000 yards passing, a better team maybe, but they weren't that good as some of you might think! Those numbers would blow Sammie away on top of completing over 65% of his passes! Just saying!

But of course we will never know, so Sammie can hold onto those records for now,
 

Smed55

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It's not about any one record that stands out the most. It was the global aspect of his body of work and that he did it on a very, very crappy team.

If you want to focus on a couple of specific marks, go to the ones he still holds today.

Most consecutive passes attempted, none intercepted, rookie season: 169,

Sam Bradford 2010
Most pass completions, rookie, season: 354, Sam Bradford, 2010[1]

Now consider that Danny Amendola was Sam's leading receiver for the majority of those completions and that Danny was a virtual unknown prior to Sam's arrival. Danny had 43 receptions the year prior and only 85 of Sam's current rookie record or 354.

The other dude who contributed in a large manner to those 354 completions of Sam's was Brandon Gibson whoes career virtually
ended as a major player after his affiliation with Sam.

It's funny how he set this completion record, yet he had no one to throw to? And he did it behind a terrible oline, that gave up 34 sacks, yet projected for the same amount of passes Griffin would have gotten sacked -about 45 times, and he's a mobile QB, I wonder how many times Bradford would have been sacked behind that much better oline?
 

Vitamike

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It's funny how he set this completion record, yet he had no one to throw to? And he did it behind a terrible oline, that gave up 34 sacks, yet projected for the same amount of passes Griffin would have gotten sacked -about 45 times, and he's a mobile QB, I wonder how many times Bradford would have been sacked behind that much better oline?
You lost me at 'projected for'..... yadda, yadda, yadda....

Can we at least stick to the actual facts? :noidea:

The shear life of this convo is bad enough.
 

Smed55

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You lost me at 'projected for'..... yadda, yadda, yadda....

Can we at least stick to the actual facts? :noidea:

The shear life of this convo is bad enough.

Ya, it's kind of like Sammie was projected to be a star!
Yadda yadda!:)
 
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