The 'legacy' BS - LeBron and others

[TurnUpTheHeat]

best thing that could happen to the Heat is if Whiteside signs elsewhere.

sign Biyombo and Joe Johnson for a little more money...would help you win WAAAAY more. You would see less pretty blocks though. You MIGHT be able to guard a pick and roll though- kinda important ya know?

Whoever signs Whiteside will be using the "stretch" provision on that guy before the end of his deal i assure you. I just love how Tristan Thompson and Whiteside both just proved me right time and time again.

I'm not even rehashing this again, but teams are lining up to give Whiteside a max.
So, any rational person would know they were proven wrong. At least for now.

All of us here but you, know Tristan is payed double what others like him are worth, but he helped against the Warriors, so it worked out for the Cavs.

And, I'll pass on Johnson and Biyombo.

Hoping for Whiteside, won't be devistated if he leaves cause then in '17 the Heat will be loaded with cap space once Bosh is off books.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Most experts think he is.

And with the added parity in the NBA, there's a decent chance LeBron doesn't win another title...What will these so-called "experts" say then?

 

[Across The Field]

And with the added parity in the NBA, there's a decent chance LeBron doesn't win another title...What will these so-called "experts" say then?

Lebron has cemented his legacy. He's one of the most transcendent talents the league has ever seen, and undoubtedly one of the best players of all-time. He has 3 titles to go along with countless other individual achievements, and his performances in the other two Finals with the Cavs where they lost were amazing.

The 07 Cavs Finals roster was complete and total garbage other than Lebron. The fact that they even got there is a testament to his greatness, especially considering he was still only 22. The second best player in that lineup was either Zydrunas Ilgauskas or Drew Gooden.

Last year he lost the 2nd and 3rd best players on his team for basically the entire finals and still managed to win 2 games (and was inches away from winning game 1).

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Lebron has cemented his legacy. He's one of the most transcendent talents the league has ever seen, and undoubtedly one of the best players of all-time. He has 3 titles to go along with countless other individual achievements, and his performances in the other two Finals with the Cavs where they lost were amazing.

The 07 Cavs Finals roster was complete and total garbage other than Lebron. The fact that they even got there is a testament to his greatness, especially considering he was still only 22. The second best player in that lineup was either Zydrunas Ilgauskas or Drew Gooden.

Last year he lost the 2nd and 3rd best players on his team for basically the entire finals and still managed to win 2 games (and was inches away from winning game 1).

Too bad legacy is based upon what actually happens and not "what if". The fact remains that he has the same amount of titles as Larry Bird while playing in a much weaker era, regardless of whom his supporting cast includes.

 

[Wamu]

Too bad legacy is based upon what actually happens and not "what if". The fact remains that he has the same amount of titles as Larry Bird while playing in a much weaker era, regardless of whom his supporting cast includes.

Odd that you'd mention my all time favorite player Larry the Legend. As far as your much weaker comment ya might wanna check this article out...

si.com (5-20-16): Larry Bird: current ear might be NBA greatest

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Odd that you'd mention my all time favorite player Larry the Legend. As far as your much weaker comment ya might wanna check this article out...

si.com (5-20-16): Larry Bird: current ear might be NBA greatest

Everyone has their own opinions, but I'm just not feeling the same level of intense competition as I did during my childhood in the 90's.

 

[Wamu]

Everyone has their own opinions, but I'm just not feeling the same level of intense competition as I did during my childhood in the 90's.

Yeah I'm sure Larry Bird has no idea what the hell he's talking about.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Yeah I'm sure Larry Bird has no idea what the hell he's talking about.

I'm sure he has his own perspective, perhaps it's maybe how the business of basketball is handled better today, who knows...That doesn't mean everyone has to agree with him, though.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Too bad legacy is based upon what actually happens and not "what if". The fact remains that he has the same amount of titles as Larry Bird while playing in a much weaker era, regardless of whom his supporting cast includes.

I agree it is based on what happens, not "what if X player from that era played in this one, who's road is tougher" kind of crap.

Kind of interesting as people keep saying how dominant the top western teams are, how FA really lets teams built elite skills that brings up the top ones and kind of takes away from the middle and bottom teams. And those are the ones Lebron has won his titles over. Really? Now I need to believe the 40-42 Rockets in the early 80's are better than the 73 win Warriors or the Spurs dynasty???? No, sorry, I don't buy that.

 

[Wamu]

I'm sure he has his own perspective, perhaps it's maybe how the business of basketball is handled better today, who knows...That doesn't mean everyone has to agree with him, though.

My point was I'm gonna listen to what Bird has to say about the NBA before you. Not being rude or anything but here's why. Your # 146 comment about how intense the competition was during your childhood in the 90's. That kinda sums it up right there. You can't dismiss Bird's comments on an era of the NBA because you're not old enough to have seen the NBA of the 80's. It was a much more physical game compared to today's NBA.

 

[WiggyRuss]

My point was I'm gonna listen to what Bird has to say about the NBA before you. Not being rude or anything but here's why. Your # 146 comment about how intense the competition was during your childhood in the 90's. That kinda sums it up right there. You can't dismiss Bird's comments on an era of the NBA because you're not old enough to have seen the NBA of the 80's. It was a much more physical game compared to today's NBA.

there are a lot of reasons to believe that the NBA has never had more talent in it than it does today.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

I agree it is based on what happens, not "what if X player from that era played in this one, who's road is tougher" kind of crap.

Kind of interesting as people keep saying how dominant the top western teams are, how FA really lets teams built elite skills that brings up the top ones and kind of takes away from the middle and bottom teams. And those are the ones Lebron has won his titles over. Really? Now I need to believe the 40-42 Rockets in the early 80's are better than the 73 win Warriors or the Spurs dynasty???? No, sorry, I don't buy that.

Let's be truthful though, the East was God-awful during Miami's four-year collusion period any way you frame it. Certain players on the Heat were allowed to take long stretches of the season off to gear up for the playoffs.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

My point was I'm gonna listen to what Bird has to say about the NBA before you. Not being rude or anything but here's why. Your # 146 comment about how intense the competition was during your childhood in the 90's. That kinda sums it up right there. You can't dismiss Bird's comments on an era of the NBA because you're not old enough to have seen the NBA of the 80's. It was a much more physical game compared to today's NBA.

I guess it's just easy for me as Pacers fan to look entirely at this perspective because I know that the brawl in Detroit had played the biggest role for the soft-nature of our league today.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Here's the thing. The Cavs won so the narrative is about how LeBron is now for sure a top 5 all timer, defining moment, etc. etc. Fine.

But if Kyrie misses that last 3 and Steph makes his, the Warriors win. Nothing to do with LeBron but then the narrative is "2-5, he sucks, can't win the big series". How is he worse or better just because Kyrie makes a shot and Steph misses one?

Same thing with his time in Miami, if Ray Allen misses that now iconic shot to ice that Finals, how does that change how we view LeBron? Should it?

And that's the same all through the NBA.

What if Horry misses or Paxson or Kerr.

What if Pau doesn't take over 4th quarters in those finals when Kobe goes dead, does Kobe ever win a ring without Shaq as the #1 option?


How big is Allen's 3 if Lebron doesn't make the one on the play before to turn it from a 6 pt game to a 3 pt game? How big is Allen's 3 if Lebron doesn't hit the shot to put them ahead for good in OT of that game and they lose instead anyways? How big is Allen's 3 if the last two Games Lebron isn't easily outscoring the combined efforts of Allen, Bosh and Wade while going up against Kawhi the entire game? Down 3-2 in that series, those big 3 go on to shoot 38% and have 16 turnovers the final 2 games of the series.



So no, it shouldn't matter one bit. It isn't like Lebron wasn't by far the best player on the floor in every one of his championships. We've got all time greats who got to the finals and it wasn't just a single big shot they ceded to another player, but other guys stepped up as the best players through the entire series.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Let's be truthful though, the East was God-awful during Miami's four-year collusion period any way you frame it. Certain players on the Heat were allowed to take long stretches of the season off to gear up for the playoffs.

Rest! yeah... that's the advantage.. . Knowing the heat got all that rest while Popovich was just shredding his spurs teams forcing them to play 48 minutes a game and never letting them have a night off... That's what did it. lol... Sorry that's part of today's game for everyone.

We see how Lebron has had the fewest minutes over the past 6 years of any other great basketball player ever too... The rest he gets that no one else ever had is his benefit????

And you are right the West had some better teams. And the Heat played them REALLY well in the regular and the post-season just the same.


Bird had McHale, Dennis Johnson, Parish, Archibald, Gilmore. He had guys like Cedric Maxwell who could win finals MVP on his team. Magic had Worthy, Jabbar, McAdoo, Wilkes and Riley coaching him. Pierce got Garnett and Allen at the ends of their primes. Jordan got Pippen, Grant/Rodman, Phil Jackson on the sideline. The only change today is teams outside of Boston and LA can get more than a star or two. I wouldn't call Lebron's teammates in the playoffs any better than any other 3 title guy.

But damn, you get to team up with Love and Tyronne Lue, and you are forming this goddamn never before seen powerhouse. lol

Cleveland is 4-14 without Lebron. That "superteam" is fighting for the #1 spot in the draft when he isn't out there. Miami was a game over .500... and with all the improvements since Lebron left... 2 games over .500.

 

[GNG]

And with the added parity in the NBA, there's a decent chance LeBron doesn't win another title...What will these so-called "experts" say then?

They'll just say shit happens...

 

[SteelersPride]

He is NOT top 5 all-time...Next argument please.

thats just good analysis from a noob

 

[Across The Field]

Too bad legacy is based upon what actually happens and not "what if". The fact remains that he has the same amount of titles as Larry Bird while playing in a much weaker era, regardless of whom his supporting cast includes.

Yeah, you're an idiot. Lebron has surpassed Bird in basically every imaginable way. Bird was an all-time great SF. Lebron is an all-time great player at any position. Did you know he's 18th all-time in NBA history in assists? There's a very real chance he winds up top 10 by the time he's finished. That's unreal for a player that is also easily going to be top 10 all-time in points by probably 4 games into this coming season. He's also top 25 all-time in steals, and will likely end up top 25 in blocks and rebounds by the time he's done.

He's the greatest all-around player the league has ever seen.

 

[lebron23james]

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah, you're an idiot. Lebron has surpassed Bird in basically every imaginable way. Bird was an all-time great SF. Lebron is an all-time great player at any position. Did you know he's 18th all-time in NBA history in assists? There's a very real chance he winds up top 10 by the time he's finished. That's unreal for a player that is also easily going to be top 10 all-time in points by probably 4 games into this coming season. He's also top 25 all-time in steals, and will likely end up top 25 in blocks and rebounds by the time he's done.

He's the greatest all-around player the league has ever seen.

I'm no Lebron fan, but dude is top 5 all time, imo. I have him #4 or #5 right now (depending on how recently he said or tweeted something stupid. lol). I expect that by the end of his career, he'll be in the convo with Magic and Kareem for #2 all time.