The 'legacy' BS - LeBron and others

[gordontrue]

That is true but the Warriors were expected to win it all and favorites by far. I guess it is more of a failure, but still a failure for the other 28 teams like you said.

Yeah, my point wasn't really about the Warriors just about the way we look back at players' legacies.

People say, "Jordan was 6 - 0. He never failed". Not true. He failed 9 times. It just so happens that his failures always came before he made it to the Finals.

Finals record is the most illogical, meaningless, and deceiving stat when it comes to comparing players accomplishments and failures.

 

[Bulletz]

Yeah, my point wasn't really about the Warriors just about the way we look back at players' legacies.

People say, "Jordan was 6 - 0. He never failed". Not true. He failed 9 times. It just so happens that his failures always came before he made it to the Finals.

Finals record is the most illogical, meaningless, and deceiving stat when it comes to comparing players accomplishments and failures.

The old Montana v Brady argument. I agree completely.

 

[lebron23james]

Yeah, my point wasn't really about the Warriors just about the way we look back at players' legacies.

People say, "Jordan was 6 - 0. He never failed". Not true. He failed 9 times. It just so happens that his failures always came before he made it to the Finals.

Finals record is the most illogical, meaningless, and deceiving stat when it comes to comparing players accomplishments and failures.

Which one could argue is actually worse. If Jordan had the better team, statistically speaking why did he manage to make less finals

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yeah, my point wasn't really about the Warriors just about the way we look back at players' legacies.

People say, "Jordan was 6 - 0. He never failed". Not true. He failed 9 times. It just so happens that his failures always came before he made it to the Finals.

Finals record is the most illogical, meaningless, and deceiving stat when it comes to comparing players accomplishments and failures.

Exactly, I don't get that logic either. When he wasn't getting to the Finals, Lebron was. People don't realize when MJ didn't have Pippen he only won 1 game in the postseason. 1 game, in 3 season if I am correct. The Finals appearances alone should be an accomplishment in itself if you look at the whole situation and not just..."well he lost, so it was a failure".

 

[Shanemansj13]

Which one could argue is actually worse. If Jordan had the better team, statistically speaking why did he manage to make less finals

he did have to play some great Celtics teams' early in his career but they also lost to a Bucks team, not sure who was on the team but Lebron was on far worse teams than MJ early in his career and Lebron carried them to a championship and usually deep in the playoffs. I mean he beat a championship Pistons team by himself.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

That would tie him with Kareem. Still not GOAT.

It should be a great honor for LeBron (or any NBA player) to be compared w/ Jabbar. I cannot believe that this guy doesn't get more consideration as the GOAT. He is the NBA's all time leading scorer, made the all-star team 19 times, was MVP 6 times & probably had the most unstoppable shot ever in basketball. He has numerous other honors. I would guess that he doesn't get as much credit only because he played a while ago.

 

[gordontrue]

It should be a great honor for LeBron (or any NBA player) to be compared w/ Jabbar. I cannot believe that this guy doesn't get more consideration as the GOAT. He is the NBA's all time leading scorer, made the all-star team 19 times, was MVP 6 times & probably had the most unstoppable shot ever in basketball. He has numerous other honors. I would guess that he doesn't get as much credit only because he played a while ago.

I think part of it comes down to how unlikable he was off the court. Shouldn't matter, imo... but it had a big impact with the way the media covered him and talks about him (or doesn't talk about him) to this day, imo.

I agree though. I actually have him as #2 behind Jordan. He was dominant throughout high school, college, and the NBA winning at every level. The fact that he won with the Bucks in addition to his victories with the Lakers is big for me, too.

 

[tlance]

It should be a great honor for LeBron (or any NBA player) to be compared w/ Jabbar. I cannot believe that this guy doesn't get more consideration as the GOAT. He is the NBA's all time leading scorer, made the all-star team 19 times, was MVP 6 times & probably had the most unstoppable shot ever in basketball. He has numerous other honors. I would guess that he doesn't get as much credit only because he played a while ago.

I think the key for Jabbar was that he was so good for so long. The longevity of his excellence was completely unmatched. I am not sure if Kareem's best year was better than Shaq's best or Wilt's best, for example, but I have Kareem easily as the best big man ever.

For me, the discussion for who guys next after Jordan is very subjective. I think you can make a very strong case for LeBron, Kareem and Magic.

I know I may get blasted for this, but I think LeBron belongs slightly ahead of both. Kareem won all of his rings with Either Oscar or Magic, both all time top 10 players. Magic has the same argument against him. As good as Wade and Kyrie may be, they are not top 5 or even top 20 players. Neither ever had a win as impressive as this one.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I think the key for Jabbar was that he was so good for so long. The longevity of his excellence was completely unmatched. I am not sure if Kareem's best year was better than Shaq's best or Wilt's best, for example, but I have Kareem easily as the best big man ever.

For me, the discussion for who guys next after Jordan is very subjective. I think you can make a very strong case for LeBron, Kareem and Magic.

I know I may get blasted for this, but I think LeBron belongs slightly ahead of both. Kareem won all of his rings with Either Oscar or Magic, both all time top 10 players. Magic has the same argument against him. As good as Wade and Kyrie may be, they are not top 5 or even top 20 players. Neither ever had a win as impressive as this one.

I would agree about Wade. However - the jury is still out on Kyrie Irving. The guy is only 24 yrs old. I am not the biggest fan of the guy, but he could still do a lot of things & win more titles in the future (perhaps even w/o LeBron) that could move him into the top 20 range. We will see.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I think part of it comes down to how unlikable he was off the court. Shouldn't matter, imo... but it had a big impact with the way the media covered him and talks about him (or doesn't talk about him) to this day, imo.

I agree though. I actually have him as #2 behind Jordan. He was dominant throughout high school, college, and the NBA winning at every level. The fact that he won with the Bucks in addition to his victories with the Lakers is big for me, too.

Good pt about Kareem, but I would add that he has done things recently that makes him more likeable IMO. I would like to think that making fun of himself in Airplane! should have also made him a bit more likeable.

 

[tlance]

I would agree about Wade. However - the jury is still out on Kyrie Irving. The guy is only 24 yrs old. I am not the biggest fan of the guy, but he could still do a lot of things & win more titles in the future (perhaps even w/o LeBron) that could move him into the top 20 range. We will see.

Could be, but he isn't now. I think LeBron's leadership has had a lot to do with his recent development. Like Kareem's did for Magic.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Could be, but he isn't now. I think LeBron's leadership has had a lot to do with his recent development. Like Kareem's did for Magic.

Yep. You never know & it should be interesting watching this develop over the years. If the Cavs continue to win they may become a target for certain FAs. This could make Irving a major star in years to come. Or perhaps it only goes so far & Irving is just another real good player with a title or two but never on anyone's all time list. It will be interesting to see how hungry the Cavs remain now that they finally have a title.

 

[mick7-1961]

Right or wrong, Lebron will forever be associated with switching to teams loaded with talent in order to win a championship......

My problem is with Cavs fans who hated him for leaving Cleveland, burning his jersey and calling him a traitor....Then jumping back on his bandwagon when he comes back..

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Right or wrong, Lebron will forever be associated with switching to teams loaded with talent in order to win a championship......

My problem is with Cavs fans who hated him for leaving Cleveland, burning his jersey and calling him a traitor....Then jumping back on his bandwagon when he comes back..

I certainly would not burn his jersey, but honestly I could see hating a player for leaving & then loving the same guy when he returns. What is the alternative? Most fans are not going to say "good luck" when a star player leaves a team that they cherish. Subsequently they are not going to say "I don't want that traitor on my team" when he just happens to be the best player in the league. I also believe that LeBron's article after returning to the Cavs & his feelings for CLE made it easier for Cavs fans to welcome him back.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Never mind the Lebron has spent his entire career in a historically bad East.

 

[trojanfan12]

It should be a great honor for LeBron (or any NBA player) to be compared w/ Jabbar. I cannot believe that this guy doesn't get more consideration as the GOAT. He is the NBA's all time leading scorer, made the all-star team 19 times, was MVP 6 times & probably had the most unstoppable shot ever in basketball. He has numerous other honors. I would guess that he doesn't get as much credit only because he played a while ago.

Agree. I used to rank them with MJ as #1 and Magic as #2. But then I got to looking at everything Kareem accomplished in his career and now I see him and Magic as tied for #2. I still give MJ the nod as GOAT because 6-0 in the finals is 6-0 in the finals.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think part of it comes down to how unlikable he was off the court. Shouldn't matter, imo... but it had a big impact with the way the media covered him and talks about him (or doesn't talk about him) to this day, imo.

Agree. I don't remember Kareem being an asshat or anything, but he was very aloof and that pissed off a lot of people. It's supposedly why he hasn't gotten any coaching opportunities outside of special consultant with the Lakers.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think part of it comes down to how unlikable he was off the court. Shouldn't matter, imo... but it had a big impact with the way the media covered him and talks about him (or doesn't talk about him) to this day, imo.

I agree though. I actually have him as #2 behind Jordan. He was dominant throughout high school, college, and the NBA winning at every level. The fact that he won with the Bucks in addition to his victories with the Lakers is big for me, too.

i think Kareem is prob #2 of all time too. He is just never up there because - i dunno- something about his game just does not evoke the same emotions as guys like LEBron or Bird or Kobe or Magic or Shaq etc....

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I certainly would not burn his jersey, but honestly I could see hating a player for leaving & then loving the same guy when he returns. What is the alternative? Most fans are not going to say "good luck" when a star player leaves a team that they cherish. Subsequently they are not going to say "I don't want that traitor on my team" when he just happens to be the best player in the league. I also believe that LeBron's article after returning to the Cavs & his feelings for CLE made it easier for Cavs fans to welcome him back.

Funny you post that, on the Heat board we were just discussing Whiteside and were saying if he decides to leave we wish him the best.
The NBA is a business.
FA is a big part of the business.
My issue is with players that bitch, moan, and threaten before they become FA.
James never did that.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Funny you post that, on the Heat board we were just discussing Whiteside and were saying if he decides to leave we wish him the best.
The NBA is a business.
FA is a big part of the business.
My issue is with players that bitch, moan, and threaten before they become FA.
James never did that.

best thing that could happen to the Heat is if Whiteside signs elsewhere.

sign Biyombo and Joe Johnson for a little more money...would help you win WAAAAY more. You would see less pretty blocks though. You MIGHT be able to guard a pick and roll though- kinda important ya know?

Whoever signs Whiteside will be using the "stretch" provision on that guy before the end of his deal i assure you. I just love how Tristan Thompson and Whiteside both just proved me right time and time again.