The 'legacy' BS - LeBron and others

[trojanfan12]

The six titles is definitely what separates him but say hypothetically Lebron ends up going 6-4 and has 10 finals appearances with also six titles to his credit. He could have a case of taking teams that shouldn't have been in the Finals to the Finals when in the years MJ didn't get to the Finals it doesn't hurt him because he didn't lose in the Finals. I think if that were to happen there would be some serious discussions.

That would tie him with Kareem. Still not GOAT.

 

[RazorsEdge]

If the ultimate goal is to win championship, how can ring count not be a contributing factor to greatness?

Its tricky because how good a player IS doesn't always translate to who has the best resume in a team sport. I think how the player performed while winning those rings should come into play for sure, as well as ring count.

 

[Shanemansj13]

That would tie him with Kareem. Still not GOAT.

But a tie is broken somehow. Kareem and MJ have the same amount of titles, I don't put MJ higher bc he is 6-0 instead of 6-4 I look at everything else then.

 

[Wamu]

That would tie him with Kareem. Still not GOAT.

Roy Hibbert will be the Lakers next great C.

 

[Heatles84]

yah....if he would have lost you could make an argument outside of the top 5....but not now i dont think- especially after the historic nature of that comeback and an all time great finals performance

but right now--- 4 MVP's, 3 Finals MVP's, 3 championships, 11 NBA 1st teams, 7 Finals appearances in 13 years in the league. The best guys he has played with is Wade in '12 and Kyrie in '16- not exactly guys at the top of their careers- though both close.

LeBron has now played in 2 Game 7's in the NBA Finals- won both and was amazing in both. It would be awfully awfully tough to keep him out of a top 5. When you are talking top 5 it gets pretty subjective- but that stat line above just cannot be denied.

I dislike Lebron, but even I have him in my personal top 5. I don't take much into league MVPs. Although there have been some years Lebron got screwed over (2010) and other years where a player should've won it over him (Wade '09) - so in Lebron's case it evens out.

Rings are the most important factor to me on how I gauge how great a player is, within reasonable context of course. It's hard to argue against Lebron being outside of the top 5 as he was without a doubt the best player on the 3 title teams he's been on.

Lebron's had his low points as well, but he's obviously bounced back from them and is not the same player he was his first stint in Cleveland and first year in Miami. I dislike the guy, but I won't discredit how great of a player he is. But I will never have him over Jordan. Ever.

 

[tlance]

If the ultimate goal is to win championship, how can ring count not be a contributing factor to greatness?

That being said, I don't think Finals losses are as big of a negative as some do.

Ring count is part of the equation for sure. Just not the end all be all that Trojanfan makes it out to be. Not all championships are created equal. LeBron did more to earn this one than any individual has in the last 40 years. This one is far more meaningful than either of his rings in Miami or any 1 of Jordan's 6 or Magic's 4.

 

[Heatles84]

Ring count is part of the equation for sure. Just not the end all be all that Trojanfan makes it out to be. Not all championships are created equal. LeBron did more to earn this one than any individual has in the last 40 years. This one is far more meaningful than either of his rings in Miami or any 1 of Jordan's 6 or Magic's 4.

Magic has 5, but I see your point.

 

[tlance]

Magic has 5, but I see your point.

Yeah. My bad!

 

[Heatles84]

Yeah. My bad!

dammit, tlance. The fuck!?!?! jk

 

[tlance]

dammit, tlance. The fuck!?!?! jk

That is why you should always double check stats you aren't sure about before posting!

 

[Heatles84]

That is why you should always double check stats you aren't sure about before posting!

It's all good man. I've made a couple mistakes myself. Just busting your balls.

 

[Clayton]

Rings matter a little bit as maybe a tie breaker but I dont think they are a huge deal. I think most people agree otherwise Bill Russell would be the unquestioned GOAT

 

[Across The Field]

"Meanwhile, the two years after Lebron left Cleveland, they went straight to the cellar."

That's a reflection on the Cavs F.O. in general.
You're expecting different results post James this go round?

Yes, because the FO isn't the same. Ferry was our GM then and he was a fucking moron. He blew a trade for Amare in his prime because he didn't want to part with JJ Hickson. David Griffin, as you've seen, knows what he's doing.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

This is what I think some folks don't understand. When you get to the level of the all-time greats, the difference between them is razor thin. You can literally make a very good argument for at least 7-8 players as being GOAT and at least a decent argument for several more.

Because of that, there has to be a "tie breaker" of sorts and that "tie breaker" is rings.

Exactly...particularly in the NBA because stars have more impact on the sport.

We had many conversations about best PF of all time and Duncan is often the hands down guy. However, when you breakdown every facet of their games, jump shot, post game, rebounding, running the break, passing, it's not really hands down. The Jazz were in a tough spot getting out of the west...they got there once I know and obviously lost to the Bulls but because he never won a ring, people shy away from Malone really being in the conversation...McHale gets more creds by some than Malone and he was very good, but not as good as Malone.

 

[Across The Field]

Rings matter a little bit as maybe a tie breaker but I dont think they are a huge deal. I think most people agree otherwise Bill Russell would be the unquestioned GOAT

No question. Who would you pick to QB your team, Trent Dilfer or Dan Marino?

Would you rather have Joel Anthony at center or Patrick Ewing?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Yes, because the FO isn't the same. Ferry was our GM then and he was a fucking moron. He blew a trade for Amare in his prime because he didn't want to part with JJ Hickson. David Griffin, as you've seen, knows what he's doing.

Much easier to look like you know what you're doing when James is around.
Let's see how he does when the attraction to play for Gilbert is what?
Plus, when James is gone, the days of going over the cap are done.

 

[Across The Field]

Much easier to look like you know what you're doing when James is around.
Let's see how he does when the attraction to play for Gilbert is what?
Plus, when James is gone, the days of going over the cap are done.

Not for Danny Ferry. He was there for nearly all of Lebron's first 7 seasons and he never looked like he knew what he was doing.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

No question. Who would you pick to QB your team, Trent Dilfer or Dan Marino?

Would you rather have Joel Anthony at center or Patrick Ewing?

Is that a backhanded shot at The Warden?

 

[Across The Field]

Is that a backhanded shot at The Warden?

Haha, not really backhanded. It was pretty blunt.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Not for Danny Ferry. He was there for nearly all of Lebron's first 7 seasons and he never looked like he knew what he was doing.

That's implying that James had no imput on the decisions that were made.
We all know that wasn't the case.