The draft, need and talent line up finally!

[themuzzer]

Did I get TP and Micro worked up today? Guess it was yesterday. I love those guys. Trust me fellas, when I make it too the shin dig one year, you will see I'm a Lion fan but very critical of anything the Lions do....That comes with age.....Don't Believe anything unless you see it with your eyes, the rest is garbage nowadays.

In the mean time there hasn't been enough talk about Matty Pimp and the TE receiving core.


That's right I said it......I like our TE's..... tough shit, I give compliments..... You don't like it? Go watch the Browns

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I see no problem also talking about the positives, the maybes, potential trades, who might be a sleeper, etc... nothing Lions-related should be off limits on a message board.

Understandable. Some guys on here like to post about all the positives, some guys like to post about all the acquisitions or trade possibilities, some guys like to post about the negatives that need to be addressed. That is what a fan message board is -- a group of people with different thought processes, but in the end, everyone wants the same end result...........a winning franchise.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Now, see... as I understand it they had him and that kid that Minnesota drafted just ahead of us rated pretty much the same. So as soon as one went, the we drafted the other with our next pick. That's what I think went down...

That is really nothing more than conjecture. We don't know where the Lions had the other punters rated in comparison to Locke or Martin. Of course, after spending a 5th round pick on Martin and Locke off the board, the obvious comment is going to be they were the teams top 2 punters. In the end though -- we don't know.

Maybe they had Martin rated the same as a handful of others, but decided on him, because they feel he has the best chance to improve and the others are at their ceiling. We don't know.

Unless any of us were in the draft room or have inside info from the scouting dept -- It is nothing more than our opinion.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Exactly! The 5th round... pick 165... the average draft position for the 20 drafted punters drafted in the last ten years! What were they thinking taking a punter at that spot!?!

And to top it off do you guys know what became of those 20 punters drafted since 2003? They went on to become 9 of the NFL's top 10 punters last year! What kind of idiot drafts a punter in hopes to have better special teams units that set league records for being embarrassingly bad last season, especially knowing full well that drafted punters turn out to be the best in the game more often than they don't?

Madness I tell you!

As much as you want to turn this into a pissing match -- Once again, I will remind you -- Every fan isn't going to have the same opinion. Just because myself and other Lions fans disagree with drafting a punter in the 5th round, especially one who in 4 years, had 3 years of 40.5 or less per punt, it doesn't mean we hate the Lions.

And you can post ridiculous stats like -- 9 of 20 punters drafted in the past 10 years were ranked in the top 10 in the NFL last year, but if you want to look at that stat -- 55% of the punters drafted weren't in the top 10. So mathematically, there is a better chance at failure, than success with the pick.

In the end -- the difference between the punter ranked #3 in the NFL and #22 in the NFL was 3 yards in yards per punt. So the difference is minimal, which is why you see so few punters drafted, because in the end, all they are doing is punting a football as far as they can.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I don't think any of us would disagree with that. He only averaged like 3.7 YPC and his longest run was like 16 yards. That sucks.

Doesn't mean he sucks though. He still went over 1,000 total yards and put up 9 TDs, showing a knack for punching in the goal line runs from inside the 5. His 34 receptions are also an encouraging sign. If he can showcase adequate receiving skills at his size it really puts the defense in a bind as to what package to match-up on him with.

Remember, you're grading him on his rookie season when he was coming off of an ruptured achilles. He was also drafted to be the power compliment to Jahvid Best, but do to injuries to each, neither played together. Best has now been replaced by Bush, so we'll finally get to see Leshoure used in the way they intended when they drafted him. Plus, you can't say our o-line last year was much good for run blocking, especially middle-right.

So yes, definitely a disappointing season for him, but far, far too soon to write him off.

1000 yards from the line of scrimmage isn't impressive when you touched the ball 250 times and you are facing defenses putting the minimum in the box. It isn't as if he is facing defenses who are game planning to stop the run. They are daring the Lions to run.

We all realize he was coming off an injury and it was his 1st year. It doesn't change the fact he looked slow, which is the opposite of what many expected. His elusiveness was non-existant and he lacked any type of burst.

Maybe now that he is the backup, it will keep him fresher and he will be better this year. Maye we will see the explosiveness we heard about. We don't know.

In the end -- while he put up some nice touchdown numbers. His stats otherwise were nothing to write home about. 3.7 on carries and 6.3 on receptions isn't good for a RB, especially a RB we traded up to take and had the luxury of playing in a passing offense, where the safeties were 20 yards off the line of scrimmage all game, every game basically.

 

[tpaulus_2]

That is really nothing more than conjecture. We don't know where the Lions had the other punters rated in comparison to Locke or Martin.

No it's not! lol

I just posted a direct quote from the Lions website right above that. It said that the Lions saw Locke and Martin as the top two punters in the draft and had a similar grade on both. It's not conjecture at all.

 

[tpaulus_2]

In the end though -- we don't know.

Maybe they had Martin rated the same as a handful of others, but decided on him, because they feel he has the best chance to improve and the others are at their ceiling. We don't know.

You keep saying "we don't know"... is that just to make you feel better? Some of us do know, because we read it (and then posted the link for everyone else to read). So you can say we don't know, but that's no longer true. Now it's an issue of the evidence being right there for everyone to read and you coming up with new excuses since this one has been tanked...

 

[tpaulus_2]

In the end -- the difference between the punter ranked #3 in the NFL and #22 in the NFL was 3 yards in yards per punt. So the difference is minimal, which is why you see so few punters drafted, because in the end, all they are doing is punting a football as far as they can.

This guy's opinion > yours on the matter:

"Great punters are very hard to find," Lions special teams coordinator John Bonamego told detroitlions.com. "They are few and far between. If you want one, you pretty much have to be willing to draft one."

I'll go with what he thinks and not try to fool myself into thinking that I know better than he does.

 

[tpaulus_2]

1000 yards from the line of scrimmage isn't impressive when you touched the ball 250 times and you are facing defenses putting the minimum in the box. It isn't as if he is facing defenses who are game planning to stop the run.

My bad, you're right- he sucks.

At least you're stubbornly steadfast enough that you're not going to let pesky, inconsequential things like stats or evidence get in the way of your thought process.

Keep it up- the world needs more guy capable of completely blocking out whatever they need to in order to stay convinced that they're always right on every subject. It's really an impressive skill to have mastered.

We all realize he was coming off an injury and it was his 1st year. It doesn't change the fact he looked slow, which is the opposite of what many expected. His elusiveness was non-existant and he lacked any type of burst.

That's your opinion.

Maybe now that he is the backup, it will keep him fresher and he will be better this year. Maybe we will see the explosiveness we heard about. We don't know.

I'm going to start a "we don't know" counter to see how many times you post that. It's become your security blanket, something you keep telling yourself when those thoughts of someone else maybe having a legitimate point start to creep in. Can't have that happening...

 

[Mebert]

Ok, I got all caught up on this thread. I feel like Military and teachers shold be tested the same amount, but only because both are responsible for million dollar peices of equipment and both carry around lethal weapons. Totally the same.

That being said I think we should change this thread to talking about Speivey, I think nobody likes him and we can all finally agree on something.

 

[Microwahevo]

That being said I think we should change this thread to talking about Speivey, I think nobody likes him and we can all finally agree on something.

If bslegend was here, he'd be all over Spievey's nuts.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Ok, I got all caught up on this thread. I feel like Military and teachers shold be tested the same amount, but only because both are responsible for million dollar peices of equipment and both carry around lethal weapons. Totally the same.

This guy, man... He's one funny dude!

That being said I think we should change this thread to talking about Speivey, I think nobody likes him and we can all finally agree on something.

As our starting safety? No fucking thanks!

As our back-up safety? Meh.

As our #4 safety? Not so bad. I'd rather have a rookie in that spot to develop, but that wasn't in the cards last year. Now he's got to battle it out with Hope for that last spot, which is waaaaay better than talking about him as our starter...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

No it's not! lol

I just posted a direct quote from the Lions website right above that. It said that the Lions saw Locke and Martin as the top two punters in the draft and had a similar grade on both. It's not conjecture at all.

That is fine -- what do you think you are going to read though? Do you think they are going to say -- We had Martin and 3 or 4 other guys with the same grade, but decided in the end that Martin was the best fit. They aren't going to say that, as the drafted Martin. If Martin and Locke had been drafted before the Lions picked in round 5 and they took "insert punter name here" -- the quote after the draft would have been the same, but with a different name.

It is the same as reading how Ansah was the guy the Lions wanted all along. If one of the OL had fallen to the 5th pick -- guess what we would have been reading? Whoever it is we would have drafted would have been the guy they wanted all along. You aren't going to read Schwartz or Mayhew saying -- well, we wanted these three guys, but had to settle on Ansah in the 1st round.

 

[Thruthefog]

It must be hell being a teacher. No matter how egotistical and/or close-minded someone is, they can't seem to give up hope on them. What a curse that must be.

 

[Microwahevo]

That is fine -- what do you think you are going to read though? Do you think they are going to say -- We had Martin and 3 or 4 other guys with the same grade, but decided in the end that Martin was the best fit. They aren't going to say that, as the drafted Martin. If Martin and Locke had been drafted before the Lions picked in round 5 and they took "insert punter name here" -- the quote after the draft would have been the same, but with a different name.

It is the same as reading how Ansah was the guy the Lions wanted all along. If one of the OL had fallen to the 5th pick -- guess what we would have been reading? Whoever it is we would have drafted would have been the guy they wanted all along. You aren't going to read Schwartz or Mayhew saying -- well, we wanted these three guys, but had to settle on Ansah in the 1st round.

Good grief dude, you really have some issues. So basically we shouldn't believe anything anyonefrom the Lions' brass has to say now? Lmao. Who can we trust then? Some average joe on a lions message board? No thanks.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

My bad, you're right- he sucks.

At least you're stubbornly steadfast enough that you're not going to let pesky, inconsequential things like stats or evidence get in the way of your thought process.

Keep it up- the world needs more guy capable of completely blocking out whatever they need to in order to stay convinced that they're always right on every subject. It's really an impressive skill to have mastered.

Nowhere have I said that LeShoure sucks, so not sure why you continue to throw that out there to me. I just said he had a disappointing season, sans the TDs, which were a product of a passing game that continually were tackled at the 1 yard line. I think it was Cleaves who gave him the nickname.

I have no clue what 'stats' or 'evidence' you are talking about -- For running backs with over 200 carries -- he season long was 16 yards. The next shortest for a season long was 26 yards and then it goes up to 32. This is playing in an offense where he is facing the minimum in the box the overwhelming majority of the time. You don't see that as a problem? I could see if he were Trent Richardson, where teams were stacking the box and game planning to stop him, as Cleveland couldn't pass the ball. That is the exact opposite of LeShoure's situation. What makes it even worse -- With RBs with over 200 carries -- every one of those backs had at least 4 runs of 20+ yards, while LeShoure had 0. Hell -- Bell had 3 carries over 20 yards and he only had 82 carries on the year.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Originally Posted by TrustMeIamRight
We all realize he was coming off an injury and it was his 1st year. It doesn't change the fact he looked slow, which is the opposite of what many expected. His elusiveness was non-existant and he lacked any type of burst.
That's your opinion.

I agree it is my opinion. I'm open to hearing why you believe my opinion is wrong though. I think the 3.7 yards per carry, 6.3 yards per catch and a season long play of 16 yards seems to agree with my opinion.

 

[tpaulus_2]

That is fine -- what do you think you are going to read though? Do you think they are going to say -- We had Martin and 3 or 4 other guys with the same grade, but decided in the end that Martin was the best fit. They aren't going to say that, as the drafted Martin. If Martin and Locke had been drafted before the Lions picked in round 5 and they took "insert punter name here" -- the quote after the draft would have been the same, but with a different name.

Ahh, I see. So the printed quote I offered is no good, because they're just saying that stuff to look good, not because they mean it. Until it suits your argument, of course, then it's the honest truth.

But that's fine, I figured you'd just brush that article off, since it flies directly in the face of what you're saying. No worries though, I'm sure everyone still thinks you're right and that article was a hoax perpetrated by the Lions team website just to make you look bad...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I'm going to start a "we don't know" counter to see how many times you post that. It's become your security blanket, something you keep telling yourself when those thoughts of someone else maybe having a legitimate point start to creep in. Can't have that happening...

I have used the "we don't know" because all that is happening in this thread is arguing over opinions. You can say LeShoure may come back with more burst and explosiveness, but we have no clue if he will.

You talk about legitimate points, but how about this legitimate point. Joique Bell had 134 touches last year. Mikel LeShoure had 249 touches last year. LeShoure had 115 more touches and only 123 yards more in total offense. You don't see that as disappointing?

 

[tpaulus_2]

I think the 3.7 yards per carry, 6.3 yards per catch and a season long play of 16 yards seems to agree with my opinion.

So what you're saying is that the stats you're putting up to support your opinion agree with your opinion?

Whelp, I'm sunk... there's no way I can compete with this level of intellectual wizardry.