The Case Against MJ as the GOAT (topical discussion only please)

[Wamu]

So why is this thread 25 pages long then?

Can you name a single person that has said LeBron > MJ.

No you can't. Keep on bitchin' about the player you hate-hate-hate so much.

LeBron's in yer head 24/7.

 

[Jordan23]

Oh, the irony of you calling any comment retarded.

definition of quit - "to stop doing something or leave a job or a place"

Also ya gotta love this forum

Irony lol, coming from the clowns, yes they are retarded.

 

[Jordan23]

Oh, the irony of you calling any comment retarded.

definition of quit - "to stop doing something or leave a job or a place"

Also ya gotta love this forum

So what does retire definition mean to you? Damn you are fucking dumb

 

[dtgold88]

So what does retire definition mean to you? Damn you are fucking dumb

oh, the irony.

 

[MAGA2024]

I posted this in a new thread yesterday, but apparently the TRUTH was so damaging to LeBron and his fans that some softy deleted the thread.

SMH

Anyway...

LeBron's Conference Finals appearances:
- Only faced 4 (of 12) teams with at least a Top 5 Net Rating (vs. 7 of Jordan's 8 CF opponents)
- Only 6 of 12 teams with 55 or more Wins (vs. 7 of Jordan's 8)
- Only 2 teams with 60 or more Wins (vs. 4 of Jordan's 8)
- Faced zero (0) teams with at least 2 players on the MVP ballot that year (vs. 7 of Jordan's 8 opponents)
- Only faced 4 (sure-thing) HOFERS in their prime in 12 series (vs. 14 for Jordan in 8 series)
- Only faced two (2) Top 75 Players in their prime (vs. 9 for Jordan)

In other words you can talk all you want about LeBron's "supposed" superior Finals competition, but the fact remains if he faced the same level of Conference Finals competition as Jordan did (just to get TO the Finals) he likely makes only two/three trips to the Finals instead of 10... which means his name isn't even mentioned as a Top 5 player, let alone the GOAT.

This, of course (contrary to the views of the poster who started this thread), further supports my contention that Jordan "is" the GOAT hands-down AND that LeBron is not close to MJ with respect to their overall, complete body of work.

 

[dtgold88]

I posted this in a new thread yesterday, but apparently the TRUTH was so damaging to LeBron and his fans that some softy deleted the thread.

SMH

Anyway...

LeBron's Conference Finals appearances:
- Only faced 4 (of 12) teams with at least a Top 5 Net Rating (vs. 7 of Jordan's 8 CF opponents)
- Only 6 of 12 teams with 55 or more Wins (vs. 7 of Jordan's 8)
- Only 2 teams with 60 or more Wins (vs. 4 of Jordan's 8)
- Faced zero (0) teams with at least 2 players on the MVP ballot that year (vs. 7 of Jordan's 8 opponents)
- Only faced 4 (sure-thing) HOFERS in their prime in 12 series (vs. 14 for Jordan in 8 series)
- Only faced two (2) Top 75 Players in their prime (vs. 9 for Jordan)

In other words you can talk all you want about LeBron's (supposed" superior Finals competition, but the fact remains if he faced the same level of Conference Finals competition as Jordan did (just to get TO the Finals) he likely makes only two/three trips to Finals instead of 10... which means his name isn't even mentioned as a Top 5 player, let alone the GOAT.

This, of course (contrary to the views of the poster who started this thread), further supports my contention that Jordan "is" the GOAT hands-down AND that LeBron is not close to MJ with respect to their overall, complete body of work.

as mentioned I have to cut you off when you lie so stopped reading this one pretty early. In the way you think they are there are no Lebron fans here.

Be happy to go further if you could rewrite it without lying.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I posted this in a new thread yesterday, but apparently the TRUTH was so damaging to LeBron and his fans that some softy deleted the thread.

SMH

Anyway...

LeBron's Conference Finals appearances:
- Only faced 4 (of 12) teams with at least a Top 5 Net Rating (vs. 7 of Jordan's 8 CF opponents)
- Only 6 of 12 teams with 55 or more Wins (vs. 7 of Jordan's 8)
- Only 2 teams with 60 or more Wins (vs. 4 of Jordan's 8)
- Faced zero (0) teams with at least 2 players on the MVP ballot that year (vs. 7 of Jordan's 8 opponents)
- Only faced 4 (sure-thing) HOFERS in their prime in 12 series (vs. 14 for Jordan in 8 series)
- Only faced two (2) Top 75 Players in their prime (vs. 9 for Jordan)

In other words you can talk all you want about LeBron's "supposed" superior Finals competition, but the fact remains if he faced the same level of Conference Finals competition as Jordan did (just to get TO the Finals) he likely makes only two/three trips to Finals instead of 10... which means his name isn't even mentioned as a Top 5 player, let alone the GOAT.

This, of course (contrary to the views of the poster who started this thread), further supports my contention that Jordan "is" the GOAT hands-down AND that LeBron is not close to MJ with respect to their overall, complete body of work.

Much of what you're saying is opinion except actual record. You're asking to keep this fact based yet are assuming Lebron would have lost those matchups? Lol.

The Pistons alone have 2 in the HOF. Howard was in his prime, Pierce prime. That is before even getting deep into this analysis.

 

[MAGA2024]

as mentioned I have to cut you off when you lie so stopped reading this one pretty early. In the way you think they are there are no Lebron fans here.

Be happy to go further if you could rewrite it without lying.

What am I lying about? No LeBron fans??? LOL... you ALONE have vehemently "defended" the man for 27 pages. What do you call that, a Hater?

SMH

Anyway, you CAN'T "go further" with any sort of fact or substance to refute what I wrote about LeBron's (literal) cakewalk TO the Finals 10 times, so stop flattering yourself with silly little "you lied so I'm not going to respond even though I just did respond" nonsense.

 

[dtgold88]

What am I lying about? No LeBron fans??? LOL... you ALONE have vehemently "defended" the man for 27 pages. What do you call that, a Hater?

SMH

Anyway, you CAN'T "go further" with any sort of fact or substance to refute what I wrote about LeBron's (literal) cakewalk TO the Finals 10 times, so stop flattering yourself with silly little "you lied so I'm not going to respond even though I just did respond" nonsense.

There are fans as in most in this thread (other than you and a couple MJ nuthuggers) appreciate and are fans of both Lebron AND MJ's games.

uh oh...another lie. Me alone? Many here have defended Lebron in the sense they understand it's an actual debate for GOAT status and Lebron in discussion.

If not able to just not lie at all could you save them until the end?

 

[MAGA2024]

Much of what you're saying is opinion except actual record. You're asking to keep this fact based yet are assuming Lebron would have lost those matchups? Lol.

The Pistons alone have 2 in the HOF. Howard was in his prime, Pierce prime. That is before even getting deep into this analysis.

How are the "facts" I posted, opinions?

- Net Rating of teams is factual
- W/L records is factual
- Number of prime HOFERS played against is factual
- Number of prime Top 75 players played against is factual
- Number of teams faced that had at least 2 players on the MVP ballot (the year LeBron faced them) is factual

The only opinion I gave is how many Finals appearances he'd have IF his Conference Finals opponents were even close to as great as Jordan's were, based on the facts above.

BTW... Webber was 34 years old when the Pistons lost to Cleveland in 07 (averaging 10/7 on the season). Pierce was 33... you call that "prime"? Yeah, I don't think so.

Howard, Billups and Joker (twice)... those are the only sure-fire HOFERS in their prime who LeBron faced in the Conference Finals.

 

[MAGA2024]

There are fans as in most in this thread (other than you and a couple MJ nuthuggers) appreciate and are fans of both Lebron AND MJ's games.

uh oh...another lie. Me alone? Many here have defended Lebron in the sense they understand it's an actual debate for GOAT status and Lebron in discussion.

If not able to just not lie at all could you save them until the end?

So your beef is that I consider you a LeBron fan/suppoorter, but because you say you're not you're calling me a liar AND refusing to debate the merits of my posts???

LOLOL

Oooookey then.

 

[dtgold88]

How are the "facts" I posted, opinions?

- Net Rating of teams is factual
- W/L records is factual
- Number of prime HOFERS played agains is factual
- Number of prime Top 75 players played against is factual
- Number of teams faced that had at least 2 players on the MVP ballot (the year LeBron faced them) is factual

The only opinion I gave is how many Finals appearances he'd have IF his Conference Finals opponents were even close to as great as Jordan's were, based on the facts above.

BTW... Webber was 34 years old when the Pistons lost to Cleveland in 07 (averaging 10/7 on the season). Pierce was 33... you call that "prime"? Yeah, I don't think so.

Howard, Billups and Joker (twice)... those are the only sure-fire HOFERS in their prime who LeBron faced in the Conference Finals.

Lie rule didn't prevent me from reading this one so props to you. Baby steps. Well, to be fair, I didn't check some of your work so is very possible you lied (and were either factually incorrect or not factual)

Yeah, I know I for one have maintained MJ had a tougher road TO the Finals and Lebron had tougher matchups IN the Finals. Probably why Lebron had a more successful career getting to the Finals but MJ had greater success in the Finals.

since I have no agenda like you I'll even say my opinion is Billups NOT a sure fire HOFer.

 

[dtgold88]

So your beef is that I consider you a LeBron fan/suppoorter, but because you say you're not you're calling me a liar AND refusing to debate the merits of my posts???

LOLOL

Oooookey then.

I am not a Lebron fan in the sense you think I am (hence, you lied)....in that you think I am a so-called nuthugger and think he's the clear GOAT and wont say anything bad about him. It's ironic since you really are an MJ nuthugger and wont say anything bad about him.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

How are the "facts" I posted, opinions?

- Net Rating of teams is factual
- W/L records is factual
- Number of prime HOFERS played against is factual
- Number of prime Top 75 players played against is factual
- Number of teams faced that had at least 2 players on the MVP ballot (the year LeBron faced them) is factual

The only opinion I gave is how many Finals appearances he'd have IF his Conference Finals opponents were even close to as great as Jordan's were, based on the facts above.

BTW... Webber was 34 years old when the Pistons lost to Cleveland in 07 (averaging 10/7 on the season). Pierce was 33... you call that "prime"? Yeah, I don't think so.

Howard, Billups and Joker (twice)... those are the only sure-fire HOFERS in their prime who LeBron faced in the Conference Finals.

Ben Wallace, Paul George, Derozan (90 percent lock) if you completely overlook the fact he ran into an all time great Celtics team 4 years in a row while discrediting their roster lol, without again even trying

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Lie rule didn't prevent me from reading this one so props to you. Baby steps. Well, to be fair, I didn't check some of your work so is very possible you lied (and were either factually incorrect or not factual)

Yeah, I know I for one have maintained MJ had a tougher road TO the Finals and Lebron had tougher matchups IN the Finals. Probably why Lebron had a more successful career getting to the Finals but MJ had greater success in the Finals.

since I have no agenda like you I'll even say my opinion is Billups NOT a sure fire HOFer.

Billups is already in lol

 

[dtgold88]

Billups is already in lol

Admittedly missed that one......whoops.

Guess in my defense (not that there really is one) would be never said wont or wouldn't make it. Have to say bit of a surprise but say that not knowing the stats of him or others like we might when considering MLB guys or even NFL.

Clearly, though, he's a lot better than I must have remembered....or misremembered.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Ben Wallace, Paul George, Derozan (90 percent lock) if you completely overlook the fact he ran into an all time great Celtics team 4 years in a row while discrediting their roster lol, without again even trying

Actually no Wallace on that team. Just Webber as pointed out.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Admittedly missed that one......whoops.

Guess in my defense (not that there really is one) would be never said wont or wouldn't make it. Have to say bit of a surprise but say that not knowing the stats of him or others like we might when considering MLB guys or even NFL.

Clearly, though, he's a lot better than I must have remembered....or misremembered.

The team fell apart after they traded him so there is that.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Rose is also almost certainly in the HOF at some point due to his peak.

 

[MAGA2024]

Lie rule didn't prevent me from reading this one so props to you. Baby steps. Well, to be fair, I didn't check some of your work so is very possible you lied (and were either factually incorrect or not factual)

Yeah, I know I for one have maintained MJ had a tougher road TO the Finals and Lebron had tougher matchups IN the Finals. Probably why Lebron had a more successful career getting to the Finals but MJ had greater success in the Finals.

since I have no agenda like you I'll even say my opinion is Billups NOT a sure fire HOFer.

STHO already fool... you can't refute what I wrote and you have yet to refute anything I have discussed with anything other than your opinion. Period. I'm not lying about anything.. don't have to lie to build an irrefutable case of Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LeBron.

And FTR Billups IS a HOFER. whether you think he deserves it or not. But if you wish to exclude him from consideration that means LeBron only faced 3 sure-thing HOFERS in their prime (Dwight in 09, and Joker twice).

That just further drives home the notion that LeBron would have been lucky to make just a couple Finals appearances if he faced Conference Finals opponents that were even close to Jordan's competition.