THE BIG 10 THREAD

[NU_FTW]

First of all @TrustMeIamRight and @NU_FTW started all this shit in this thread, then others started to talk shit about how Michigan is still trash and irrelevant. So of course I am going to counter argue that shit. What the fuck does today's teams have to do with that argument, and why even bring up the 90s in this thread in the first place.

You missed the part where i was distracting from the 5 page argument of 40ppg that nobody actually cared about but your boy as he did with the whole argument just likes to be dumb and continuously argue. But he said he doesnt get trolled by bringing up 97 natty lmfao!!

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

You missed the part where i was distracting from the 5 page argument of 40ppg that nobody actually cared about but your boy as he did with the whole argument just likes to be dumb and continuously argue. But he said he doesnt get trolled by bringing up 97 natty lmfao!!

Only thing I argued was that the 94 PSU team was better than the 94 Neb team. Nothing else.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You missed the part where i was distracting from the 5 page argument of 40ppg that nobody actually cared about but your boy as he did with the whole argument just likes to be dumb and continuously argue. But he said he doesnt get trolled by bringing up 97 natty lmfao!!

Be honest. Nebraska has just lost at home to Northern Illinois and you wanted to talk about anything but the present.

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

My hate for Michigan is bone deep. 70s, 80s, 90s 00s, 10s make no difference. But still.

I'm assuming you hate other blue bloods as well?

 

[NU_FTW]

Only thing I argued was that the 94 PSU team was better than the 94 Neb team. Nothing else.

So, you are admitting that you are not without sin in this ordeal either.

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

So, you are admitting that you are not without sin in this ordeal either.

I just think the 94 PSU team is a top 5 or 10 all time team. Probably the second most talented team in the 90s after the 95 Nebraska team.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Can't argue with that. It's been disappointing, although I do stand by Beck being a terrible OC. I think Wilson is good but not running what he necessarily wants to.

The questions becomes: is it the QB play, no WR deep threats, or Urban being to stubborn.
I'll tell you what, we never run the counters and jet sweeps that were crucial to that 2014 run. Haven't since Herman left

Yeah, not sure on that? Seems like Samuel would have been the perfect player to do that with.

I just know when OSU has a deep threat and can move the safeties back -- they are EXTREMEMLY tough to stop. Without it -- teams can cheat the safeties up and force OSU to play small ball to sustain drives.

Against teams like UNLV and Army where you are vastly more talented -- it doesn't matter. They can complete short passes and let them turn them into big plays. Those won't happen very often against a quality defense.

Again, this is just my thoughts on it. But I did have a smile when the announcers basically said verbatim what I've said during the OU game. That being said. It is only 4 games in and maybe something will click for OSU's WR group

 

[HuskerinBig10]

I just think the 94 PSU team is a top 5 or 10 all time team. Probably the second most talented team in the 90s after the 95 Nebraska team.

I provided the data.

A #70 ranked total defense is NOT a top ten team.

A top ten OFFENSIVE team of all time? Maybe.

But a Top Ten team of all time, is a definite no.

BTW, rmilia started that one, but as usual, a puffed up Michigan fan chimes in based on absolutely no data saying it was Penn State. Then a PSU fan chimes in based on no data. I am the only one that used facts and data.

What is it with Michigan fans?

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

I provided the data.

A #70 ranked total defense is NOT a top ten team.

A top ten OFFENSIVE team of all time? Maybe.

But a Top Ten team of all time, is a definite no.

BTW, rmilia started that one, but as usual, a puffed up Michigan fan chimes in based on absolutely no data saying it was Penn State. Then a PSU fan chimes in based on no data. I am the only one that used facts and data.

What is it with Michigan fans?

THat is an all time great offense with lots of NFL talent. If that side of the ball is one of the greatest ever, I don't care as much about the defense, even though they still had some NFL talent. You are making me sick to my stomach defending PSU btw.

 

[herky]

I provided the data.

A #70 ranked total defense is NOT a top ten team.

A top ten OFFENSIVE team of all time? Maybe.

But a Top Ten team of all time, is a definite no.

BTW, rmilia started that one, but as usual, a puffed up Michigan fan chimes in based on absolutely no data saying it was Penn State. Then a PSU fan chimes in based on no data. I am the only one that used facts and data.

What is it with Michigan fans?

Well, they can't beat tOSU so they turn to what they think is low hanging fruit.

 

[Churchillin]

Also, with the Gator offensive linemen busy with each other, our defensive line would've had a field day...

Holy shit

 

[kburjr]

I'm assuming you hate other blue bloods as well?

Hell yes. But Michigan most of all. Been a thing since I was in Madison in the late 60s

 

[Across The Field]

He didn't recruit Thomas, Smith, Spencer or Miller. Jalin Marshall was the #4 WR in his class, turning that into him going undrafted doesn't exactly help Meyer's cause much. So far out of the guys he's recruited to Ohio State, he really hasn't had much success with WR. His best "WR" he's recruited, Curtis Samuel is hardly your typical WR. And much like Samuel, Miller was also in that same ilk. And even at that point he was drafted based on potential because he certainly didn't have the production. We'll see what happens with the guys on the current roster that are upperclassmen, but Campbell is really the only one that might get drafted.

LOL ok. So the fact that these WRs never played for any other coach doesn't matter. Got it. 6 WRs have been drafted in the last 3 years, all having played their entire careers under Meyer, but since he technically didn't recruit them, it doesn't matter.

2014-2017: 6 WRs drafted.
2007-2013: 6 WRs drafted.

Clearly nothing to do with Meyer though. LOL

 

[Across The Field]

I'm just saying -- at some point you have to look at personnel when it is happening with two different OC's and a new group of WR's each year. Urban Meyer isn't putting Barrett out there just because. He is your best option. Same with UM fans calling for O'Korn. If O'Korn is UM's QB when we play OSU, we will get hammered.

And that throw isn't easy, you have to place it over the CB and inside the end line. It is why you see OU in zone. It makes any touch throw difficult and you can use the end line as an extra defender

Well, again, we're 4 games in to the Kevin Wilson regime and Barrett probably looks better than he has since 2014: 4 games, 63% completion percentage, 10:1 TD/INT ratio. Those are very solid numbers. Imagine what they'd look like if we had a really good QB in there. I'll admit, I've often questioned Urban's choice in who should be starting at QB. He stuck with Cardale far too long in 2015 even though the offense clearly wasn't working to his strengths. This year, he has Barrett as a 5th year senior while the other 2 QBs have 5 years combined with the program and far less experience on the field. Maybe Wilson turns him around? Who knows. It's pretty crazy when you're bitching about your QB that has a 10:1 TD/INT ratio, when you look at it from a macro view.

That said, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. He had no less than 5 feet of separation from any defender on that throw. A 5th year senior needs to make that throw and he didn't, and it took points off the board, as did many of his decisions that night throwing the ball. You said none of his WRs could get open and I provided you multiple examples of when they did on big situations. If I went back and watched the whole game again, I'm sure I could find more examples.

 

[ericd7633]

LOL ok. So the fact that these WRs never played for any other coach doesn't matter. Got it. 6 WRs have been drafted in the last 3 years, all having played their entire careers under Meyer, but since he technically didn't recruit them, it doesn't matter.

2014-2017: 6 WRs drafted.
2007-2013: 6 WRs drafted.

Clearly nothing to do with Meyer though. LOL

You said he knows how to recruit WR's. All I'm telling you is that he has recruited one true WR at his time at Ohio State that got drafted(Noah Brown 7th round). I guess if you want to count Samuel that's fine, but he's not a typical WR(in the mold of Julio Jones, AJ Green, OBJ, Antonio Brown) and didn't play that role in college either. His track record of getting his WR's recruits drafted isn't stellar.

 

[Across The Field]

You said he knows how to recruit WR's. All I'm telling you is that he has recruited one true WR at his time at Ohio State that got drafted(Noah Brown 7th round). I guess if you want to count Samuel that's fine, but he's not a typical WR(in the mold of Julio Jones, AJ Green, OBJ, Antonio Brown) and didn't play that role in college either. His track record of getting his WR's recruits drafted isn't stellar.

I don't care if Samuel isn't your typical WR. He is what the Panthers wanted at WR and they drafted him at that position in the 2nd round. Again, almost all of the WRs I mentioned played their whole careers under him. Those are his guys. Parris Campbell will get drafted high, as well. You're flatout wrong on this one.

 

[ericd7633]

I don't care if Samuel isn't your typical WR. He is what the Panthers wanted at WR and they drafted him at that position in the 2nd round. Again, almost all of the WRs I mentioned played their whole careers under him. Those are his guys. Parris Campbell will get drafted high, as well. You're flatout wrong on this one.

He's recruited 2 WR's at Ohio State that got drafted. With one not being a true WR. And one was a 7th rounder. I don't see how I'm wrong here, but sure. I'm not trying to slight Urban, it is what it is.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Well, again, we're 4 games in to the Kevin Wilson regime and Barrett probably looks better than he has since 2014: 4 games, 63% completion percentage, 10:1 TD/INT ratio. Those are very solid numbers. Imagine what they'd look like if we had a really good QB in there. I'll admit, I've often questioned Urban's choice in who should be starting at QB. He stuck with Cardale far too long in 2015 even though the offense clearly wasn't working to his strengths. This year, he has Barrett as a 5th year senior while the other 2 QBs have 5 years combined with the program and far less experience on the field. Maybe Wilson turns him around? Who knows. It's pretty crazy when you're bitching about your QB that has a 10:1 TD/INT ratio, when you look at it from a macro view.

That said, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. He had no less than 5 feet of separation from any defender on that throw. A 5th year senior needs to make that throw and he didn't, and it took points off the board, as did many of his decisions that night throwing the ball. You said none of his WRs could get open and I provided you multiple examples of when they did on big situations. If I went back and watched the whole game again, I'm sure I could find more examples.

Against the only B1G team and OU. Barrett only completed 55% of his passes. It is like the John O'Korn UM fans who think he is our savior. Putting up stats on teams like Purdue is one thing, putting them up against teams who can put athletes on the field to defend you is another.

And when someone says, your WR's aren't getting separation. They are saying they can't against man coverage, not against a zone. Against a zone, you are just trying to find a hole in the defense. Like in your end zone video, you see the defender release the WR to the corner of the end zone -- the reason why......they have a CB underneath.

If you have gone back and watched the game, you should see where the announcers pull up multiple plays against OU where Barrett literally had no one to throw to.

Personally I think both UM and OSU fans are being way too hard on their QB. Barrett was a star as a freshman because he was surrounded by stars, he had the ultimate deep threat to spread the field and one of the best RBs to come out of college in a long time. If Meyer thought for a second he had a better option on the bench, he'd be in already after the OU game.
UM fans who have become giddy about O'Korn have to wait til he faces a team who will put constant pressure on him and see how he does. That is what separates a solid QB from a really good QB. IMO, O'Korn has the happiest of happy feet and against teams like PSU, Wisconsin, OSU -- it will really hurt the team.

In all honesty -- this year looks like a two team race. Bama and Clemson. Clemson defense and Bama as a whole. I don't see anyone stopping Bama this year and I don't think it will be very close in any game they play

 

[Across The Field]

He's recruited 2 WR's at Ohio State that got drafted. With one not being a true WR. And one was a 7th rounder. I don't see how I'm wrong here, but sure. I'm not trying to slight Urban, it is what it is.

2012 was his first class, which saw Michael Thomas come from Fork Union to OSU.

His 2013 class had Jalin Marshall (undrafted but started for the Jets as a rookie), James Clark (couldn't stay healthy, transferred to VT), and Corey Smith was a solid WR in college, mostly as a blocker, and helped us win a title.

His 2014 class had Johnnie Dixon, who has finally been able to stay healthy and is having a decent year as a senior. Obviously Curtis Samuel was there, and he was a 2nd round pick at WR. It also had Parris Campbell who is projected to be an early round pick, if not round 1. There was also Noah Brown who was drafted, and Terry McClaurin who has started off solidly this year after getting out from behind the older WRs.

2015 had KJ Hill, who is a legit deep threat that is tied for the team lead in catches so far. Alex Stump was buried and transferred, and I heard may have given up football to focus on medicine.

2016 has Austin Mack and Bin Victor, who both have pro potential without a doubt.

So, again, not sure what your point is here. He took the guys that were there when he started and put most of them into the NFL after they played almost entirely with him. He has 1 guy from his first class in the pros, 2 guys from his second class (soon to be a 3rd, who will be drafted highly), and there's a very good chance 2-3 from his 2015/2016 classes go pro.

But yeah, he doesn't know how to recruit or develop WRs at all. Clearly I was way off.

 

[Across The Field]

Against the only B1G team and OU. Barrett only completed 55% of his passes. It is like the John O'Korn UM fans who think he is our savior. Putting up stats on teams like Purdue is one thing, putting them up against teams who can put athletes on the field to defend you is another.

And when someone says, your WR's aren't getting separation. They are saying they can't against man coverage, not against a zone. Against a zone, you are just trying to find a hole in the defense. Like in your end zone video, you see the defender release the WR to the corner of the end zone -- the reason why......they have a CB underneath.

If you have gone back and watched the game, you should see where the announcers pull up multiple plays against OU where Barrett literally had no one to throw to.

Personally I think both UM and OSU fans are being way too hard on their QB. Barrett was a star as a freshman because he was surrounded by stars, he had the ultimate deep threat to spread the field and one of the best RBs to come out of college in a long time. If Meyer thought for a second he had a better option on the bench, he'd be in already after the OU game.
UM fans who have become giddy about O'Korn have to wait til he faces a team who will put constant pressure on him and see how he does. That is what separates a solid QB from a really good QB. IMO, O'Korn has the happiest of happy feet and against teams like PSU, Wisconsin, OSU -- it will really hurt the team.

In all honesty -- this year looks like a two team race. Bama and Clemson. Clemson defense and Bama as a whole. I don't see anyone stopping Bama this year and I don't think it will be very close in any game they play

I don't think you can compare O'Korn to Barrett, though. They've had two very different careers. At this point, Barrett should be a no doubt Heisman frontrunner, which who knows? Maybe he will be. I remember watching the game and listening to the announcers, but several of those times they were looking at just 1-2 second snips where nobody was open, but a good QB has to be able to throw WRs open and work with tight windows against teams with athletes in the secondary. Barrett did take advantage of having Michael Thomas, Zeke, Devin Smith, etc. his freshman year. That said, he has Dobbins this year who is playing far better than Zeke did as a true freshman, and you can't tell me he doesn't have talent at WR. Campbell is projected to be drafted in the first couple rounds, KJ Hill has shown multiple times in the last two years that he can get behind coverages with ease, and then he has big body guys like Bin Victor and Austin Mack, who are sophomores but have a ton of talent. I still see far, far too many overthrows, wide throws, extreme hesitance, and poor decisions being made by a guy who is supposed to be the unquestioned leader of his piers out on the field.

I think this year is wide open, honestly. It's far too early to crown anyone. I think Bama and Oklahoma are in the CFP, but the last couple spots are completely open. Also, Clemson could very easily go down this weekend. They looked like ass against a very bad BC team last week.