The ACC Thread

[tomcat1]

Overtime in Raleigh

I just got home from 'Overtime in Raleigh' and I'm not even crying in my beer. Even though we fell a point short of 'Double Overtime in Raleigh' I loved our energy and effort by not quitting when we got behind by double digits in the second half.

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

Coby White is a special player btw. If he actually stays 2 or 3 years, Roy Williams has another title coming to him. Hell they look like a Final Four team the last two weeks.

 

[douggie]

I just got home from 'Overtime in Raleigh' and I'm not even crying in my beer. Even though we fell a point short of 'Double Overtime in Raleigh' I loved our energy and effort by not quitting when we got behind by double digits in the second half.

I was very surprised to see Jamie Lucky calling the game. I was under the impression that bastard was not allowed back into PNC Arena for even a Pepsi.

 

[Hitman Hart]

I was very surprised to see Jamie Lucky calling the game. I was under the impression that bastard was not allowed back into PNC Arena for even a Pepsi.

that was Karl Hess

 

[douggie]

that was Karl Hess

That's right! But aren't they interchangeable? Just joking, is Karl Hess still alive or has he been buried in an unmarked grave near Hillsborough Street?

 

[Hitman Hart]

That's right! But aren't they interchangeable? Just joking, is Karl Hess still alive or has he been buried in an unmarked grave near Hillsborough Street?

they are both absolutely horrible referees

 

[douggie]

they are both absolutely horrible referees

I guess I'm in the minority but I wish that younger guys between 30-45 years of age should be calling games rather than 60 year old dudes that has these young athletes playing above their bifocals

 

[tomcat1]

I guess I'm in the minority but I wish that younger guys between 30-45 years of age should be calling games rather than 60 year old dudes that has these young athletes playing above their bifocals

I agree because some of these old dudes, like me, can't keep up with the way college basketball is played today unless of course when Virginia is playing when the air is taken out of the ball. Heck, I even saw one of these old dudes, who is an active NFL official, officiating a college basketball game a few nights ago but I didn't catch his name.

 

[ericd7633]

I don't think you'll find a bigger difference between where a team is ranked in NET and RPI than NC State:

NC State's NET: 25
NC State's RPI: 115

This is why I'm skeptical of NET. NC State has one win over a current tournament team(Auburn, who's slipping close to being out) and has a "bad" loss to Wake Forest. Under the old system they are an afterthought because their resume is terrible, but under this system they are on the 7/8 line. It's just a fascinating team to watch how it unfolds.

 

[Hitman Hart]

I don't think you'll find a bigger difference between where a team is ranked in NET and RPI than NC State:

NC State's NET: 25
NC State's RPI: 115

This is why I'm skeptical of NET. NC State has one win over a current tournament team(Auburn, who's slipping close to being out) and has a "bad" loss to Wake Forest. Under the old system they are an afterthought because their resume is terrible, but under this system they are on the 7/8 line. It's just a fascinating team to watch how it unfolds.

A lot of truth in this post. They pass the eye test. They are a different team with Johnson in the lineup

 

[tomcat1]

I don't think you'll find a bigger difference between where a team is ranked in NET and RPI than NC State:

NC State's NET: 25
NC State's RPI: 115

This is why I'm skeptical of NET. NC State has one win over a current tournament team(Auburn, who's slipping close to being out) and has a "bad" loss to Wake Forest. Under the old system they are an afterthought because their resume is terrible, but under this system they are on the 7/8 line. It's just a fascinating team to watch how it unfolds.

I'm a lifelong NC State fan but I agree with you! Based on rankings the ACC is once again the best college basketball conference in the nation and the NCAA selection committee is only going to invite so many teams from each conference to their big dance in March. With that said NC State will probably have the worst RPI of the ACC teams that will be invited based on what happening right now. With that said, I'm very pleased with what Kevin Keats is doing with the Wolfpack program with the depth that he is building in his 2nd year here when we were nothing before he arrived.

 

[douggie]

Duke's February schedule gauntlet:

vs.St Johns -Feb 2
vs Boston College -Feb 5
@ #3 Virginia -Feb 9
@ #15 Louisville -Feb 12
vs. #23 NC State -Feb16
vs. #9 UNC - Feb 20
@ Syracuse - Feb 23
vs. #12 Virginia Tech -Feb 26

 

[wildturkey]

Damn it!

Got a win against Miami tonight BUT Justin Robinson went down with an ankle injury. We're so fucked now if he's gonna have to miss time

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I don't think you'll find a bigger difference between where a team is ranked in NET and RPI than NC State:

NC State's NET: 25
NC State's RPI: 115

This is why I'm skeptical of NET. NC State has one win over a current tournament team(Auburn, who's slipping close to being out) and has a "bad" loss to Wake Forest. Under the old system they are an afterthought because their resume is terrible, but under this system they are on the 7/8 line. It's just a fascinating team to watch how it unfolds.

NET is solid. But there’s still flaws. Similar to things like pomeroy. NET puts a lot of weight into just efficiently destroying teams

Virginia Tech played basically no one but thrashed teams. We might come to learn with NET it’s better to play 300ish level teams and destroy. Rather than challenge with top 200 teams.

 

[ericd7633]

NET is solid. But there’s still flaws. Similar to things like pomeroy. NET puts a lot of weight into just efficiently destroying teams

Virginia Tech played basically no one but thrashed teams. We might come to learn with NET it’s better to play 300ish level teams and destroy. Rather than challenge with top 200 teams.

That's kind of what I'm thinking as well. NC State''s MOV against the top 200 is 6.75. NC State's MOV against 200+ is 34.6. And they are only 7-5 against the top 200. I'm not trying to pick on NC State, it's just seems they've benefited the most from beating awful opponents by a ton.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

That's kind of what I'm thinking as well. NC State''s MOV against the top 200 is 6.75. NC State's MOV against 200+ is 34.6. And they are only 7-5 against the top 200. I'm not trying to pick on NC State, it's just seems they've benefited the most from beating awful opponents by a ton.

Yeah they def deserve to be a tourney team at this point imo. But they haven’t proven much to be top 25.

Kenpom is strange too.

Marquette enters the Butler game in the mid 30s on kenpom. Are we the 10th best team in the nation? Idk. But our resume is close and it’s tough to definitively say many teams behind us are better. We clock Butler and randomly jump 10 spots. That’s excessive.

Beating good teams like UNC on the road(UL) is worthy of a boost. But it all seems excessive.

Shit, Marquette has 8 BE wins...they’ve legit covered in 7/8 and the one they didn’t cover was by .5. So they don’t have a lot of blowouts, yet are actually doing better than both Vegas and Kenpom projects, but his model doesnt like it. Kinda strange.

 

[jontaejones]

Yeah they def deserve to be a tourney team at this point imo. But they haven’t proven much to be top 25.

Kenpom is strange too.

Marquette enters the Butler game in the mid 30s on kenpom. Are we the 10th best team in the nation? Idk. But our resume is close and it’s tough to definitively say many teams behind us are better. We clock Butler and randomly jump 10 spots. That’s excessive.

Beating good teams like UNC on the road(UL) is worthy of a boost. But it all seems excessive.

Shit, Marquette has 8 BE wins...they’ve legit covered in 7/8 and the one they didn’t cover was by .5. So they don’t have a lot of blowouts, yet are actually doing better than both Vegas and Kenpom projects, but his model doesnt like it. Kinda strange.

One of the things that hurts you on Ken Pom is getting your ass handed to you. And Marquette's losses have been blowouts.

Personally, I was good with RPI as the accepted metric. I don't think blowing teams out should count for that much, you want to give your underclassmen minutes to play. And I don't think getting blown out should count for that much either. It's not like football where you only pick 4 teams.

At then end of the day, I think they'll still use a mix of metrics. The seeding will be close to what Lunardi has up now.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

One of the things that hurts you on Ken Pom is getting your ass handed to you. And Marquette's losses have been blowouts.

Personally, I was good with RPI as the accepted metric. I don't think blowing teams out should count for that much, you want to give your underclassmen minutes to play. And I don't think getting blown out should count for that much either. It's not like football where you only pick 4 teams.

At then end of the day, I think they'll still use a mix of metrics. The seeding will be close to what Lunardi has up now.

Yeah that’s true as well. But still that’s really 2 true blowout losses in 21 games. Granted both were absolutely terrible.

Even the 9 point loss vs Kansas after that abomination of a second half had the final score right in line with the spread.

Honestly the game killing Marquette the most is UTEP I think. Never was in doubt. But only beat those guys by 7.

NET is flawed. But hopefully teams learn the flaws and schedule accordingly. Would just be a bummer if accordingly is to play 300-350 ranked teams and smoke them.

 

[douggie]

Another obvious flaw in all these metrics is injuries. Duke lives with the home loss against Syracuse and whoever they get beaten by for the duration of the season. Not making any excuses but these metrics are great for the sake of grins and giggles and ratings, but the outcome of games is played on the court.

 

[Hitman Hart]

i feel like losing by 28 points @ home in year #5 is what rock bottom feels like. the only positive is that Chris Mack said super nice things about the community of Wake Forest and Winston-Salem in the post-game presser

most of the BOT were in attendance last night