The 76ers rebuilding plan

[ericd7633]

Golden State never tanked, they put out competitive teams and tried to make playoff runs every year. There was never a year they gutted the entire team and tried to build on young players only. They got Draymond Green 35th overall, Thompson 11th, Curry & Barnes were both respectively picked 7th overall, but even one of those picks came via trade from another team so they haven't needed one top 5 pick to get where they are now or haven't had to drag their franchise through the dirt to get there so that's a poor example.

The Thunder had no choice as they were in awful shape once Ray Allen & Rashard Lewis left in Seattle and they landed KD with the 2nd overall pick while transitioning to another state. They lost their two franchise players and got a new one that was 20 years old all in just a year span. They also had some great picks in late rounds with Ibaka (24th), Reggie Jackson (24th) & took Harden & Westbrook at 3 and 4 respectively AFTER they already had Durant, a franchise cornerstone. So that's why they are were they are now. If Philly can draft exceptionally well like OKC, SAN & Golden State has over the years in the LATE first rounder or second round AND land a true franchise player then we can talk. Until then they are just tanking like a chicken with it's heads cut off.

Golden State is a GREAT example of becoming a contender through the draft. Between 2008 and 2012 they had a lottery pick every one of those years. Look at what they did with their picks:

2008 - Drafted Anthony Randolph 14th overall - used him as a trade chip to get David Lee
2009 - Drafted Steph Curry 7th overall
2010 - Drafted Epke Udoh 6th overall - Huge bust
2011 - Drafted Klay Thompson 11th overall
2012 - Drafted Harrison Barnes 7th overall

They also finished in the bottom 5 of league twice during that time frame so saying they put competitive teams out there isn't the case.

Let's not forget Philly hasn't even played a top 5 pick yet. Noel was drafted 6th overall, MCW was 11th overall, they haven't had anybody from 2014 play yet and obviously 2015.

And yes OKC built through the draft too, and they traded Ray Allen, so they were taking a step back to rebuild. They were also awful in Durant's first two seasons. They also were in the position of acquiring as many assets as possible. That Ibaka pick was acquired from Phoenix.

You must not realize how awful the Sixers were going to be going into the 2013 season. That roster was depleted, and they weren't going to contend with Jrue Holiday anyways. Jrue Holiday, at this point, is average and he's injury prone. What's so awful about trading him away for what turned out to be Noel? The previous front office absolutely depleted the roster trading for Bynum and trading for and drafting Moultrie. The Bynum trade will go down as one of the most awful trades in history.

This pretty much comes down to how Hinkie evaluates and drafts players. So far I'd say Noel looks like he's going to be a solid contributor, as of now that's off we have to go off of. Embiid, Saric and Okafor haven't played yet and MCW was traded for what looks like a top 5 pick next year(along with 3 other potential first round picks the Sixers have) Like I said if he hits on 25% of his picks between 2013 and 2016, he'll have great building blocks for the future.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Golden State is a GREAT example of becoming a contender through the draft. Between 2008 and 2012 they had a lottery pick every one of those years. Look at what they did with their picks:

2008 - Drafted Anthony Randolph 14th overall - used him as a trade chip to get David Lee
2009 - Drafted Steph Curry 7th overall
2010 - Drafted Epke Udoh 6th overall - Huge bust
2011 - Drafted Klay Thompson 11th overall
2012 - Drafted Harrison Barnes 7th overall

They also finished in the bottom 5 of league twice during that time frame so saying they put competitive teams out there isn't the case.

Let's not forget Philly hasn't even played a top 5 pick yet. Noel was drafted 6th overall, MCW was 11th overall, they haven't had anybody from 2014 play yet and obviously 2015.

And yes OKC built through the draft too, and they traded Ray Allen, so they were taking a step back to rebuild. They were also awful in Durant's first two seasons. They also were in the position of acquiring as many assets as possible. That Ibaka pick was acquired from Phoenix.

You must not realize how awful the Sixers were going to be going into the 2013 season. That roster was depleted, and they weren't going to contend with Jrue Holiday anyways. Jrue Holiday, at this point, is average and he's injury prone. What's so awful about trading him away for what turned out to be Noel? The previous front office absolutely depleted the roster trading for Bynum and trading for and drafting Moultrie. The Bynum trade will go down as one of the most awful trades in history.

This pretty much comes down to how Hinkie evaluates and drafts players. So far I'd say Noel looks like he's going to be a solid contributor, as of now that's off we have to go off of. Embiid, Saric and Okafor haven't played yet and MCW was traded for what looks like a top 5 pick next year(along with 3 other potential first round picks the Sixers have) Like I said if he hits on 25% of his picks between 2013 and 2016, he'll have great building blocks for the future.

Good point on the IBaka pick. If I am not mistaken- the Suns made some VERY VERY shortsighted deals back then- and wasnt there some deal that was like the Thunder taking Kurt Thomas' awful contrat off the Suns hands for like 3 first rounders? Or the Suns SELLING the Rondo pick- a top 20 pick if i am correct- to the Celtics.....

 

[ericd7633]

Good point on the IBaka pick. If I am not mistaken- the Suns made some VERY VERY shortsighted deals back then- and wasnt there some deal that was like the Thunder taking Kurt Thomas' awful contrat off the Suns hands for like 3 first rounders? Or the Suns SELLING the Rondo pick- a top 20 pick if i am correct- to the Celtics.....

That is correct. I'm not sure of the exact specifics, but it did involve Kurt Thomas and the Suns gave up at least 2 first rounders if not three.

Actually this was the exact trade:

On July 20, 2007, Seattle acquired 2008 and 2010 first-round draft picks and Kurt Thomas from Phoenix in exchange for a 2009 second-round draft pick. Seattle used the pick to draft Serge Ibaka. OKC used this to draft Ibaka in 2008 and Quincy Pondexter in 2010(who they traded draft night)

 

[tducey]

I think they made a mistake in picking Embid but Okafor should be a good 1. Let's see what happens.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Good point on the IBaka pick. If I am not mistaken- the Suns made some VERY VERY shortsighted deals back then- and wasnt there some deal that was like the Thunder taking Kurt Thomas' awful contrat off the Suns hands for like 3 first rounders? Or the Suns SELLING the Rondo pick- a top 20 pick if i am correct- to the Celtics.....

Yeah, back then we traded picks for cash like it was nothing… it was frustrating but we went all in in the Nash era so you can't blame them too much. Who would've thought Rondo & Ibaka would end up THIS good when they were both originally selected. They also traded Luol Deng to the Bulls I believe and they got screwed over in the Joe Johnson trade with the top 3 protected pick they landed ended up being third overall though ATL was projected to get the 4th. Could've had Horford or Noah but missed out.

Now we're finally stacking young picks though in Len, Goodwin, Warren & Booker so we're finally on the right track.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

That is correct. I'm not sure of the exact specifics, but it did involve Kurt Thomas and the Suns gave up at least 2 first rounders if not three.

Actually this was the exact trade:

On July 20, 2007, Seattle acquired 2008 and 2010 first-round draft picks and Kurt Thomas from Phoenix in exchange for a 2009 second-round draft pick. Seattle used the pick to draft Serge Ibaka. OKC used this to draft Ibaka in 2008 and Quincy Pondexter in 2010(who they traded draft night)

Yeah that was bad. Mike D'antoni never liked keeping picks during the Nash era. $arver was such a cheap owner too.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Golden State is a GREAT example of becoming a contender through the draft. Between 2008 and 2012 they had a lottery pick every one of those years. Look at what they did with their picks:

2008 - Drafted Anthony Randolph 14th overall - used him as a trade chip to get David Lee
2009 - Drafted Steph Curry 7th overall
2010 - Drafted Epke Udoh 6th overall - Huge bust
2011 - Drafted Klay Thompson 11th overall
2012 - Drafted Harrison Barnes 7th overall

They also finished in the bottom 5 of league twice during that time frame so saying they put competitive teams out there isn't the case.

Let's not forget Philly hasn't even played a top 5 pick yet. Noel was drafted 6th overall, MCW was 11th overall, they haven't had anybody from 2014 play yet and obviously 2015.

And yes OKC built through the draft too, and they traded Ray Allen, so they were taking a step back to rebuild. They were also awful in Durant's first two seasons. They also were in the position of acquiring as many assets as possible. That Ibaka pick was acquired from Phoenix.

You must not realize how awful the Sixers were going to be going into the 2013 season. That roster was depleted, and they weren't going to contend with Jrue Holiday anyways. Jrue Holiday, at this point, is average and he's injury prone. What's so awful about trading him away for what turned out to be Noel? The previous front office absolutely depleted the roster trading for Bynum and trading for and drafting Moultrie. The Bynum trade will go down as one of the most awful trades in history.

This pretty much comes down to how Hinkie evaluates and drafts players. So far I'd say Noel looks like he's going to be a solid contributor, as of now that's off we have to go off of. Embiid, Saric and Okafor haven't played yet and MCW was traded for what looks like a top 5 pick next year(along with 3 other potential first round picks the Sixers have) Like I said if he hits on 25% of his picks between 2013 and 2016, he'll have great building blocks for the future.

Meh. They made a few playoff runs in that span and still had guys like Ellis, Lee, etc. so they weren't exactly playing D-Leaguers every night. They kept their style of play (uptempo, run n gun) and didn't gut the entire roster was my point. Philly made a huge mistake on Embiid imo, but Noel & Okafor were solid picks. They still lack a premier go-to guy to build around (don't think Okafor will ever be that guy in the NBA, seems like a good no 2 option in his prime though IF he reaches his potential)

If they can land a legit playmaker in the next draft they could be fine, but it looks like it's going to be a legitimate 4-5 years before they become competitive again unless something crazy happens.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Meh. They made a few playoff runs in that span and still had guys like Ellis, Lee, etc. so they weren't exactly playing D-Leaguers every night. They kept their style of play (uptempo, run n gun) and didn't gut the entire roster was my point. Philly made a huge mistake on Embiid imo, but Noel & Okafor were solid picks. They still lack a premier go-to guy to build around (don't think Okafor will ever be that guy in the NBA, seems like a good no 2 option in his prime though IF he reaches his potential)

If they can land a legit playmaker in the next draft they could be fine, but it looks like it's going to be a legitimate 4-5 years before they become competitive again unless something crazy happens.

IF Philly lands a legit 1 in next years draft they are a playoff team in the East IMO. If they land a legit scorer to help Okafor out they are a real contender IMO.

 

[mall3013]

So, they've been tanking for how many years now? 3 or 4? And they have Okafor & Noel to show for it with Embiid likely not seeing the floor anytime soon (Greg Oden 2.0?) & Dario Saric won't be coming until next year at the earliest.

I mean, it's worked for the TWolves, they've stacked some serious talent, but not so much for Philly. Not once have the gotten the #1 overall pick despite how hard they've tried.

That's why the whole tanking strategy is just dumb. They are lowering their franchise's reputation year by year to the point where zero top free agents will want to sign with them and they'll be forced to develop their young players on their own, but once they reach their potential they'll likely become FA's and bolt by then. This has backfired mightily, imo.

As a Sixer fan I agree. It is frustrating to see this. This franchise has been a joke for several years now. FA's don't want to come in here. However, as a loyal fan I still support the team and hopefully they will turn this shitshow around sooner rather than later.

 

[OregonDucks]

Here is the flaw with tanking....

You start tanking to draft young talent, and that makes sense, you're thinking of getting more and more young talented guys who will grow into leaders with experience and your franchise will be good again...

Here is the flaw....

You start acquiring loads of young talent, but they continuously lose, they start to develop a losing mentality. I'm not saying any of these guys want to lose, or accept losing, but losing becomes a norm to them. These young talented players get I would imagine depressed and lose hope in ever being competitive. Then since they are all young together, they don't grow up together and become a solid experienced leadership group, they grow up together feeling like they've never won and they've never experienced success. Extremely tough mold to break.

Tanking doesn't work, and not only does it not work, it ruins the experience of the game.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

I don't know. All they have is potential to be good. I could easily see okafor being a bust. Noel reminds me of a hustle/defense type player who is nice to have, but not really a cornerstone piece. Sarin is just as unknown as okafor. Embiid is always injured. Stauskas hasn't shown me anything yet. And the 76ers could easily blow it in the draft. They are still a few years away. Even if they get the right pieces, they need to get a good coach to teach the players how to win at the NBA level.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

The good front offices can stack teams while being mediocre. Even though the Bulls have been mediocre to very good since the team with Hinrich, Duhon, Ben Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Chandler, and Curry made the playoffs. From that team Gordon, Deng, Duhon, and Nocioni were all taken in the same draft and were major parts of that team. Since then they got lucky with Rose, took Noah at 9 I believe, grabbed taj Gibson at the end of the first, and took Butler and Mirotic in the late first round of the same draft. Obviously they keep running into Lebron and his goons in the playoffs, but that doesn't take away from the excellent job they have done in the draft. I also think we haven't seen the best of Snell or McDermott and am very excited to see portis play. The thing I like about the Bulls front office is I could see them continue to reload via the draft when Lebron gets old and retires.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

IF Philly lands a legit 1 in next years draft they are a playoff team in the East IMO. If they land a legit scorer to help Okafor out they are a real contender IMO.

Contender for what? Idc how weak the East is, young teams don't win.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The good front offices can stack teams while being mediocre. Even though the Bulls have been mediocre to very good since the team with Hinrich, Duhon, Ben Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Chandler, and Curry made the playoffs. From that team Gordon, Deng, Duhon, and Nocioni were all taken in the same draft and were major parts of that team. Since then they got lucky with Rose, took Noah at 9 I believe, grabbed taj Gibson at the end of the first, and took Butler and Mirotic in the late first round of the same draft. Obviously they keep running into Lebron and his goons in the playoffs, but that doesn't take away from the excellent job they have done in the draft. I also think we haven't seen the best of Snell or McDermott and am very excited to see portis play. The thing I like about the Bulls front office is I could see them continue to reload via the draft when Lebron gets old and retires.

You guys got rose though by getting ridiculously lucky. When the Cavs got KI I knew they were still a long way off but at least there was hope and a insanely talented, fun , player to watch

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

You guys got rose though by getting ridiculously lucky. When the Cavs got KI I knew they were still a long way off but at least there was hope and a insanely talented, fun , player to watch

Yeah, I said that. The Bulls have still been good without him though and with Butlers emergence as an offensive threat, I think we can make noise in the post season even if rose gets hurt again, mostly because of drafting really well.

 

[The Derski]

The bucks should be in the west and the Grizzlies should be in the east.


The griz would be a top 2 seed instead of middle to end of the pack in the West. Geographically makes more sense too.

 

[DaRev]

Yeah, I said that. The Bulls have still been good without him though and with Butlers emergence as an offensive threat, I think we can make noise in the post season even if rose gets hurt again, mostly because of drafting really well.

I agree that the Bulls have learned how to function without D-Rose but they are not a true title contender without him, although that could vary depending how a new coaching staff will utilize new players. Players like Rose or Embiid that have so much invested into them need to perform at a high level in order for their team to have success because the money that is being dished out to them will prevent their teams form signing other players. This is why the 76ers really need to start seeing a return on their investments.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

The bucks should be in the west and the Grizzlies should be in the east.


The griz would be a top 2 seed instead of middle to end of the pack in the West. Geographically makes more sense too.

Id say they would be in the mix with the Cavs, Bulls, and Heat for the top four seeds. The west is much better than the east, but that's because the quantity of good teams not the quality of good teams. There are non playoff teams in the west that would make it in the east, but the top 5 or 6 teams in the east would be in the mix in the west as well. People blow the disparity between the two conferences way out of proportion.

 

[FORKWDEVIL]

Twolves have never been a contender, nor will they ever in the future.
Now the 76 ers have been my franchise favorite behind the Suns. OK, now I am going to the top of this chain and will read all the comments. I am shooting my wad early.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Id say they would be in the mix with the Cavs, Bulls, and Heat for the top four seeds. The west is much better than the east, but that's because the quantity of good teams not the quality of good teams. There are non playoff teams in the west that would make it in the east, but the top 5 or 6 teams in the east would be in the mix in the west as well. People blow the disparity between the two conferences way out of proportion.

I'd put the Grizz right behind the Cavs. 1- Cle 2-Mem 3-Whichever team is healthier out of MIA/CHI