The 2024-2025 NBA Basketball Season

[Retroram52]

I'll def agree with this statement TJF12: And fyi, you're not the only one here who saw the entirety of both careers, so that's not the flex you think it is.

 

[bksballer89]

Did Jordan ever play against one of the best teams in NBA history in b2b finals?

 

[trojanfan12]

People have their opinions. To me it comes down to the fact that twice as much of a lesser player does not top the greatness that I saw.

Again, you're not the only 1 who "saw the greatness". You really need to stop acting like you're the only one who saw the entirety of both careers and are therefore somehow the final say on the subject. It doesn't help your argument.

The GOAT conversation is subjective and comes down to what style one prefers. Personally, while I loved the killer mentality MJ had, I prefer the guy who is more of a Swiss army knife over the guy who does things pretty much 1 way.

Neither is wrong. It's just preferred style.

 

[thunderc]

Again, you're not the only 1 who "saw the greatness". You really need to stop acting like you're the only one who saw the entirety of both careers and are therefore somehow the final say on the subject. It doesn't help your argument.

The GOAT conversation is subjective and comes down to what style one prefers. Personally, while I loved the killer mentality MJ had, I prefer the guy who is more of a Swiss army knife over the guy who does things pretty much 1 way.

Neither is wrong. It's just preferred style.

I’m not acting like anything. I saw what I saw, you see what you see.

 

[msgkings322]

Did Jordan ever play against one of the best teams in NBA history in b2b finals?

To be fair, Jordan was the leader of one of those himself. I don't think we can say that about any of LeBron's teams. Maybe 2016? I'd still say 1996 Bulls > 2016 Cavs

 

[trojanfan12]

Fyi, I saw the entirety of Kareems career too and have him in that GOAT convo as well.

In fact, Kareem was the best player in the country in high school, the best player in the country in college and the best player, for several years in the NBA. Neither MJ nor Lebron can claim that (although Lebron probably could have if he had played in college).

 

[Stakesarehigh]

And then after a 4 season break he comes back and plays significantly less well than LeBron at the same age with no seasons off

Exactly.

People actually have the fucking nerve to give him credit for playing 82 games after not playing for 3 years lol.

Probably was pretty advantageous to not have any wear and tear for 3 years no?

 

[trojanfan12]

I’m not acting like anything. I saw what I saw, you see what you see.

Yes you are. You're basically saying that having seen the entirety of both careers, your opinion is somehow the final word...it's not.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Fyi, I saw the entirety of Kareems career too and have him in that GOAT convo as well.

In fact, Kareem was the best player in the country in high school, the best player in the country in college and the best player, for several years in the NBA. Neither MJ nor Lebron can claim that (although Lebron probably could have if he had played in college).

He is decidedly 3rd on my list.

Id probably put Magic 4th. From there its a matter of opinion. Can make a good case for Wilt at 4 also.

 

[Pastafazul]

You're just deflecting because your own team's best player is a top 5 flop artist.

How far you gonna dig yourself?

 

[trojanfan12]

He is decidedly 3rd on my list.

Id probably put Magic 4th. From there its a matter of opinion. Can make a good case for Wilt at 4 also.

I haven't really settled on a GOAT. I truly see them as a 1a, 1b, 1c situation and interchange them pretty regularly.

For example, after his disaster of a final 12 seconds vs. Chicago I had Lebron at 1c. lol

 

[thunderc]

Fyi, I saw the entirety of Kareems career too and have him in that GOAT convo as well.

In fact, Kareem was the best player in the country in high school, the best player in the country in college and the best player, for several years in the NBA. Neither MJ nor Lebron can claim that (although Lebron probably could have if he had played in college).

We agree on this for sure

 

[thunderc]

He is decidedly 3rd on my list.

Id probably put Magic 4th. From there its a matter of opinion. Can make a good case for Wilt at 4 also.

I have Bird closer than most do purely because of how great he was at his peak. Pretty much all the greats agree on how good the guy was at his peak, it’s a shame his back couldn’t hold up.

 

[msgkings322]

Speaking of the Cavs I need those fuckers to beat the Clippers today, no easy feat right now the Clippers are playing fantastic now

Where @Shanemansj13 at?

 

[trojanfan12]

We agree on this for sure

You can make a solid case that from about 16 to his early to mid 30's Kareem was the best in the world.

Really, the only reason Lebron is chasing down and breaking some of Kareems records is because of the rules at the time. Kareem had to spend 4 years in college while Lebron got to go straight to the NBA from high school.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I have Bird closer than most do purely because of how great he was at his peak. Pretty much all the greats agree on how good the guy was at his peak, it’s a shame his back couldn’t hold up.

Bird is definitely right there.

Gun to head im

MJ/Lebron
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Hakeem
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
KD
Steph
Malone
Oscar
Dirk
Moses
Dr J
Jokic
West
KG
Giannis
Wade
Robinson

I will just stop there lol.


Bill Russell is about 60th on my list

 

[tlance]

Defensive stats aren't a great gauge IMO unless you go deeper into stats that many old school people cringe at. Stats like blocks (often from helping off your own man) and steals (playing passing lanes and gambling) aren't the best indications IMO.

Oh I agree completely. I am always preaching that.

But they do matter for these accolades.

It is why Allen Iverson finished top 10 in DPOY voting 1 year.

Voters are a little better today, but if they are looking at SGA vs Dort, I bet they give the nod to SGA because of the name brand and the defensive stats.

 

[tlance]

He's not "that guy" has nothing to do with it. He doesn't have to be "that guy" to increase their chances of winning. He didn't have to be "that guy" when the Lakers won a title with him because Lebron was "that guy"...but the Lakers don't get that title without AD.

In this case, the Mavs had Kyrie to be "that guy".

AD isn't ever going to be "Batman"...but he's about as good as a "Robin" gets.

The Mavs traded Luka on a bet to hit a 2 year window.

1 of those years is already down the toilet due to injury.

They better hit next year.

But I agree. If we ignore ages of the players, the deal wasn’t terrible.

Big if though.

 

[tlance]

Why do need to BS so much?

Of course you are criticizing, we all do that, it’s what makes these forums entertaining

I am criticizing MJ by disagreeing with someone who said MJ would have been one of the best 3 point shooters in the league if he played today?

That isn’t criticism. That is applying facts and logic.

You are all over the place. You are coming at me for disagreeing with a statement you clearly don’t agree with. How about checking the person who said it?

 

[tlance]

And the traveling which also has become blatant, is that rampant too? To answer my own question, I believe traveling and palming the ball are becoming more prevalent and blatant, not only in the NBA but filtering down to even young kid's basketball. Plenty of examples.

That is not on the player in any way.

That is on the officials and more realistically the league office.

If that stuff gets called, players won’t do it. If it doesn’t get called, why wouldn’t you take an extra step from time to time to gain an advantage?

Any competitor is going to take advantage of potential calls that officials are ignoring.