The 2024-2025 NBA Basketball Season

[msgkings322]

should be a national holiday truthfully

Or moved to a weekend but that would require changing the Constitution

 

[msgkings322]

Rings are a team accomplishment. Marino is one of the best passers I have ever seen.

That's my point, and why I dismiss people saying Brady is better than Mahomes because of all those rings.

Marino also played well before all the rules that made QBs untouchable, and before offenses became so pass heavy.

 

[shopson67]

That's my point, and why I dismiss people saying Brady is better than Mahomes because of all those rings.

Marino also played well before all the rules that made QBs untouchable, and before offenses became so pass heavy.

Mahomes is such an odd case, not really following an example we've seen before.

 

[msgkings322]

Mahomes is such an odd case, not really following an example we've seen before.

One reason he's GOAT to me...he does pretty much everything on the field better than any before him, certainly the combination of things has never been that dominant before. He's accurate, he can throw deep, he makes good decisions, he can run/use his legs, he's a winner, he wins with lesser teams, he closes games, he stays healthy, he doesn't get rattled...never been a QB better IMO

 

[thunderc]

One reason he's GOAT to me...he does pretty much everything on the field better than any before him, certainly the combination of things has never been that dominant before. He's accurate, he can throw deep, he makes good decisions, he can run/use his legs, he's a winner, he wins with lesser teams, he closes games, he stays healthy, he doesn't get rattled...never been a QB better IMO

Can’t argue he isn’t a winner. The qb rating and numbers have been going down for a bit though. Doesnt matter if you win.

 

[Shanemansj13]

One reason he's GOAT to me...he does pretty much everything on the field better than any before him, certainly the combination of things has never been that dominant before. He's accurate, he can throw deep, he makes good decisions, he can run/use his legs, he's a winner, he wins with lesser teams, he closes games, he stays healthy, he doesn't get rattled...never been a QB better IMO

Definitely not close to GOAT yet but this year isn't helping his case. It proves a defense, coaching and running game can carry you to wins at times. He still is very clutch and he can make every throw but Brady never had anywhere close to more INT's than TD's. He will be in the conversation at the end of the day when he retires regardless.

The aspects I always go back to is Brady basically had no WR's for a big part of his career and he was not a mobile QB. He had the best footwork we have ever seen in his game (Manning too) and he didn't have the advantage of escaping from the pocket like Mahomes. That isn't anything against Mahomes, he is just more athletic, but as far as a thrower of the football I haven't seen anyone better than Brady IMO. Manning and Mahomes are close. Mahomes when it's all said and done could have the best weapon at TE of all-time too.

 

[trojanfan12]

One reason he's GOAT to me...he does pretty much everything on the field better than any before him, certainly the combination of things has never been that dominant before. He's accurate, he can throw deep, he makes good decisions, he can run/use his legs, he's a winner, he wins with lesser teams, he closes games, he stays healthy, he doesn't get rattled...never been a QB better IMO

This is why, while they're always fun, any GOAT convo's outside of eras, are pretty fruitless.

There's far more emphasis on passing these days than there was back when guys like Marino, Montana, Young, etc. all played.

What might Steve Young or even guys like Randall Cunningham been capable of with the emphasis on QB play and rules in place to protect QB's that we see today.

And what might we be looking at with Mahomes, etc. if the game were still being played like it was in earlier eras?

 

[dtgold88]

Definitely not close to GOAT yet but this year isn't helping his case. It proves a defense, coaching and running game can carry you to wins at times. He still is very clutch and he can make every throw but Brady never had anywhere close to more INT's than TD's. He will be in the conversation at the end of the day when he retires regardless.

The aspects I always go back to is Brady basically had no WR's for a big part of his career and he was not a mobile QB. He had the best footwork we have ever seen in his game (Manning too) and he didn't have the advantage of escaping from the pocket like Mahomes. That isn't anything against Mahomes, he is just more athletic, but as far as a thrower of the football I haven't seen anyone better than Brady IMO. Manning and Mahomes are close. Mahomes when it's all said and done could have the best weapon at TE of all-time too.

That Gronk fellow was pretty good, too. Mahomes lost who might be considered his only stud WR for a bit did not skip a beat. Not sure he's had a stud possession guy like Welker or Edelman either.

But I'm certainly not going to be critical of anyone who thinks it's Brady....as I could make a strong case for him.

 

[msgkings322]

Can’t argue he isn’t a winner. The qb rating and numbers have been going down for a bit though. Doesnt matter if you win.

Don't some of those numbers reflect having shitty receivers lately? Too much a team sport to just look at rings or even numbers. His skill set combination is GOAT

 

[msgkings322]

Definitely not close to GOAT yet

Disagree, the player I've watched is better at the position than any other in history IMO

but this year isn't helping his case. It proves a defense, coaching and running game can carry you to wins at times.

That proves my point actually, it's a team game and his numbers depend on the team around him. The skillset is GOAT

He still is very clutch and he can make every throw but Brady never had anywhere close to more INT's than TD's.

What? He's got 227 TDs and 72 INTs. Also team stats by the way. This half year doesn't change him being the best to ever play the position.

Brady's career TD/INT ratio was a little lower by the way (649/212 = 3.06 vs 227/72 = 3.15)

He will be in the conversation at the end of the day when he retires regardless.

He's in it now, and IMO wins it

The aspects I always go back to is Brady basically had no WR's for a big part of his career and he was not a mobile QB. He had the best footwork we have ever seen in his game (Manning too)

OK if you think Brady's footwork was better than Mahomes, that's a point in Brady's favor

and he didn't have the advantage of escaping from the pocket like Mahomes.

Yeah no kidding, because Mahomes is GOAT...this is a point in Mahomes' favor

That isn't anything against Mahomes, he is just more athletic,

Also a point in Mahomes' favor

but as far as a thrower of the football I haven't seen anyone better than Brady IMO. Manning and Mahomes are close. Mahomes when it's all said and done could have the best weapon at TE of all-time too.

You seem focused on stats, and team stuff like teammates.

Like all GOAT debates there's no way to prove it...IMO Mahomes has shown he plays the position better than anyone ever. Manning, Marino, Brady are obviously in the conversation and you can make a case for them just like you can make good GOAT cases for Jordan and LeBron and Kareem. Or to keep it football, you can make cases for any of Ray Lewis vs Lawrence Taylor, or Jerry Rice vs Randy Moss or Travis Kelce vs Tony Gonzalez

 

[msgkings322]

This is why, while they're always fun, any GOAT convo's outside of eras, are pretty fruitless.

There's far more emphasis on passing these days than there was back when guys like Marino, Montana, Young, etc. all played.

What might Steve Young or even guys like Randall Cunningham been capable of with the emphasis on QB play and rules in place to protect QB's that we see today.

And what might we be looking at with Mahomes, etc. if the game were still being played like it was in earlier eras?

I wouldn't say "fruitless" as the fruit is the fun of arguing. But they are impossible to prove definitively.

 

[Shanemansj13]

That Gronk fellow was pretty good, too. Mahomes lost who might be considered his only stud WR for a bit did not skip a beat. Not sure he's had a stud possession guy like Welker or Edelman either.

But I'm certainly not going to be critical of anyone who thinks it's Brady....as I could make a strong case for him.

The main point is no way I can consider him GOAT at this time. Brady broke almost every record and has 7 rings and he really didn't have an awful year throughout his 20+ career. Peak and longevity. Going to be tough to beat.

Mahomes didn't skip a beat? He's thrown more INT's than TD's lol

 

[Shanemansj13]

Disagree, the player I've watched is better at the position than any other in history IMO

That proves my point actually, it's a team game and his numbers depend on the team around him. The skillset is GOAT

What? He's got 227 TDs and 72 INTs. Also team stats by the way. This half year doesn't change him being the best to ever play the position.

Brady's career TD/INT ratio was a little lower by the way (649/212 = 3.06 vs 227/72 = 3.15)

He's in it now, and IMO wins it

OK if you think Brady's footwork was better than Mahomes, that's a point in Brady's favor

Yeah no kidding, because Mahomes is GOAT...this is a point in Mahomes' favor

Also a point in Mahomes' favor

You seem focused on stats, and team stuff like teammates.

Like all GOAT debates there's no way to prove it...IMO Mahomes has shown he plays the position better than anyone ever. Manning, Marino, Brady are obviously in the conversation and you can make a case for them just like you can make good GOAT cases for Jordan and LeBron and Kareem. Or to keep it football, you can make cases for any of Ray Lewis vs Lawrence Taylor, or Jerry Rice vs Randy Moss or Travis Kelce vs Tony Gonzalez

You aren't proving anything...Brady won with arguably less for most of his career LOL

There is no way Mahomes is GOAT already and that was my main point. I already said he will be in contention by the end of his career. Saying he is already the GOAT is beyond ridiculous especially when Brady played in an era where they could actually hit a QB and this is basically discounting everything Brady did if Mahomes is GOAT before he is 30. His projection---sure, most will agree but he has a long way to go.

Bradys' longevity might be the most ridiculous thing about this career and he finished it demolishing Mahomes TWICE.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Disagree, the player I've watched is better at the position than any other in history IMO

That proves my point actually, it's a team game and his numbers depend on the team around him. The skillset is GOAT

What? He's got 227 TDs and 72 INTs. Also team stats by the way. This half year doesn't change him being the best to ever play the position.

Brady's career TD/INT ratio was a little lower by the way (649/212 = 3.06 vs 227/72 = 3.15)

He's in it now, and IMO wins it

OK if you think Brady's footwork was better than Mahomes, that's a point in Brady's favor

Yeah no kidding, because Mahomes is GOAT...this is a point in Mahomes' favor

Also a point in Mahomes' favor

You seem focused on stats, and team stuff like teammates.

Like all GOAT debates there's no way to prove it...IMO Mahomes has shown he plays the position better than anyone ever. Manning, Marino, Brady are obviously in the conversation and you can make a case for them just like you can make good GOAT cases for Jordan and LeBron and Kareem. Or to keep it football, you can make cases for any of Ray Lewis vs Lawrence Taylor, or Jerry Rice vs Randy Moss or Travis Kelce vs Tony Gonzalez

By your logic, you anointed him the GOAT bc of his skillset which is only one facet of the GOAT conversation. Stats is also one facet. Throwing more INT's than TD's is part of the conversation, it absolutely is...records matter...championships matter. You can't include part of the conversation and discount another part. This is homer talk.

Brady will be GOAT until someone can dethrone him. Brady in his 40's took down Mahomes twice. By your logic, even if he had a better team that "the skillset is GOAT" LOL. He beat him on the Pats and he beat him on an entire new team. Another facet Brady won a championship on two teams...just another ribbon for him, that is ridiculously difficult to do.

 

[msgkings322]

You aren't proving anything...Brady won with arguably less for most of his career LOL

Sez who LOL. And I already explained no one can "prove" this stuff

There is no way Mahomes is GOAT already and that was my main point.

Sure there is, it's not just career stats for me. It's who was the most skilled to play the position, who would you pick if you could make a team from any players in history to be your QB. To me it's Mahomes. YMMV.

I already said he will be in contention by the end of his career. Saying he is already the GOAT is beyond ridiculous especially when Brady played in an era where they could actually hit a QB and this is basically discounting everything Brady did if Mahomes is GOAT before he is 30. His projection---sure, most will agree but he has a long way to go.

If he got hit by a bus tomorrow I'd still consider him to be the best to ever play QB. YMMV.

Bradys' longevity might be the most ridiculous thing about this career and he finished it demolishing Mahomes TWICE.

Eli beat Brady twice too...maybe Eli is GOAT?

 

[Wamu]

If this has already been mentioned my bad.

Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich reportedly out indefinitely after weekend health issue

Article says the health issue hasn't been disclosed. Hope he'll be alright.

 

[msgkings322]

By your logic, you anointed him the GOAT bc of his skillset which is only one facet of the GOAT conversation.

Kind of the biggest one: QB skill being what we are discussing. Stats come from many things, it's the ultimate team sport.

Stats is also one facet. Throwing more INT's than TD's is part of the conversation,

Brady's TD/INT ratio was worse, so point for Mahomes there

it absolutely is...records matter...championships matter. You can't include part of the conversation and discount another. This is homer talk.

I'm factoring in all of it, and concluding Mahomes was best ever. YMMV.

Also, "homer talk"? I'm not a Chiefs fan, if anything I'm the opposite (Raiders fan)

 

[dtgold88]

The main point is no way I can consider him GOAT at this time. Brady broke almost every record and has 7 rings and he really didn't have an awful year throughout his 20+ career. Peak and longevity. Going to be tough to beat.

Mahomes didn't skip a beat? He's thrown more INT's than TD's lol

Cannot say I've been following him (or his stats) this year.....just keep seeing his team keeps winning. was aware had a down year last year and, once again, when it mattered his team won and he played well.

 

[dtgold88]

You aren't proving anything...Brady won with arguably less for most of his career LOL

There is no way Mahomes is GOAT already and that was my main point. I already said he will be in contention by the end of his career. Saying he is already the GOAT is beyond ridiculous especially when Brady played in an era where they could actually hit a QB and this is basically discounting everything Brady did if Mahomes is GOAT before he is 30. His projection---sure, most will agree but he has a long way to go.

Bradys' longevity might be the most ridiculous thing about this career and he finished it demolishing Mahomes TWICE.

all good points....though idea he demolished Mahomes not exactly fair as if memory serves Mohomes usually did his job those games.

 

[ducky]

Saw Pop is out of action for an indefinite period now with an undisclosed illness. Already sat out last Saturday's game.

At his age makes you wonder what he is dealing with and if we will see him again.