The 2019 NFL Free Agency/Trade Thread

[Across The Field]

I think he played a little bit of CB in 2017 but 2018 was a bit of a circus at S for the Chiefs. Sorenson had some early struggles before finishing the season strong. I think Armani Watts was supposed to plug in eventually but got hurt. Ron Parker was probably the worst player on the Chiefs and was still seeing play time even late into the season.

Murray had every opportunity to shine last year but I dont think he has ever really been in KCs long-term plans. He could end up being solid for the Browns.

Sounds like this is a trade that should work out fine for both sides. Both had a hole in their lineup and filled it with a decent option, but they both still have some work to do at the position. Worst case scenario, both teams have solid depth pieces.

 

[dtgold88]

I was actually a fan of Murray coming out of college as a CB. I think I had a 3rd round grade on him or something similar.

When he struggled in 2017 it was because he was matched up 1 on 1 against TEs. He'll be fine as long as he doesn't have to do that.

Just took a look at Dorsey's drafts while in KC. Overall, not very impressive. Take away those who beat woman - Hill, Peters, Hunt - it's pretty darn awful.

what did KC fans think of him when he was there.

Sacrilege for a Browns fan to question him, I get it, but was wondering.

2013 Kansas City Chiefs Draftees | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[Clayton]

Just took a look at Dorsey's drafts while in KC. Overall, not very impressive. Take away those who beat woman - Hill, Peters, Hunt - it's pretty darn awful.

what did KC fans think of him when he was there.

Sacrilege for a Browns fan to question him, I get it, but was wondering.

2013 Kansas City Chiefs Draftees | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Great eye for offense, bad eye for defense, imo.

Moose was a bit higher on him than me but I think most Chiefs fans have cooled on him lately after what happened with Hunt and Peters.

The Hill thing is tough as a fan, too. I like a redemption story but if you just have a woman beater on your team then you screwed up somewhere. I strongly suspect that the Chiefs are going to use one of their 2nd round picks on a WR which gives them just enough flexibility to move forward from Hill if they need to without blatantly saying that they're moving on from Hill in case he has actually been a good human being the past few years.

 

[dtgold88]

Great eye for offense, bad eye for defense, imo.

Moose was a bit higher on him than me but I think most Chiefs fans have cooled on him lately after what happened with Hunt and Peters.

The Hill thing is tough as a fan, too. I like a redemption story but if you just have a woman beater on your team then you screwed up somewhere. I strongly suspect that the Chiefs are going to use one of their 2nd round picks on a WR which gives them just enough flexibility to move forward from Hill if they need to without blatantly saying that they're moving on from Hill in case he has actually been a good human being the past few years.

As a Browns' fan hard not to like the first draft, but the guy was handed picks 1 and 4 as well as 2 high picks in round 2. ....never mind all the cap room.

I'm a bit concerned he cares more about getting guys he picked (and dumping those he didn't) as opposed to caring about who can help the team the most. Do you think this is a real concern?

what's next....cutting Shoebert and picking up Nico Johnson?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Browns RB Duke Johnson Requests Trade, Three Teams Reportedly Interested | NFLTradeRumors.co

 

[dtgold88]

Duke not a Dorsey pick. He sees the writing on the wall....though I'd ask for my release if I were him. He'll get it eventually.

 

[Clayton]

As a Browns' fan hard not to like the first draft, but the guy was handed picks 1 and 4 as well as 2 high picks in round 2. ....never mind all the cap room.

I'm a bit concerned he cares more about getting guys he picked (and dumping those he didn't) as opposed to caring about who can help the team the most. Do you think this is a real concern?

what's next....cutting Shoebert and picking up Nico Johnson?

The Chiefs just lost four of our best six defensive players so....you're probably asking the wrong guy.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Duke not a Dorsey pick. He sees the writing on the wall....though I'd ask for my release if I were him. He'll get it eventually.

Duke isn't backup RB material anyway. He is a good weapon out of the backfield and slot WR. They have Jarvis and Callaway to serve that role. When or if Kareem comes back he will serve that role. Like you said, he sees the writing on the wall and his role decreased last year with less depth on this team.

 

[dtgold88]

Duke isn't backup RB material anyway. He is a good weapon out of the backfield and slot WR. They have Jarvis and Callaway to serve that role. When or if Kareem comes back he will serve that role. Like you said, he sees the writing on the wall and his role decreased last year with less depth on this team.

Certainly wouldn't crush Dorsey for trading the guy, as I have to think they could find a RB in the draft to be the backup if they want.

 

[Shanemansj13]

As a Browns' fan hard not to like the first draft, but the guy was handed picks 1 and 4 as well as 2 high picks in round 2. ....never mind all the cap room.

I'm a bit concerned he cares more about getting guys he picked (and dumping those he didn't) as opposed to caring about who can help the team the most. Do you think this is a real concern?

what's next....cutting Shoebert and picking up Nico Johnson?

Having picks doesn't mean shit if you don't draft the right guys. That wasn't the first time the Browns had multiple 1st's.

Ogbah was going to be a depth chart guy but plain and simple he wasn't good. Decent at the run but other than that...he didn't pan out at least with this team. What great player has Dorsey gotten rid of other than Peppers and that was to get OBJ?

As far as Duke he is asking for a trade...Dorsey can't do anything about this.

 

[dtgold88]

Having picks doesn't mean shit if you don't draft the right guys. That wasn't the first time the Browns had multiple 1st's.

Ogbah was going to be a depth chart guy but plain and simple he wasn't good. Decent at the run but other than that...he didn't pan out at least with this team. What great player has Dorsey gotten rid of other than Peppers and that was to get OBJ?

As far as Duke he is asking for a trade...Dorsey can't do anything about this.

I've probably said it before, but not sure. I do like Dorsey and want him in this job. However, the "everything Sashi bad, everything Dorsey good" mantra is absurd to me (not saying that's you as I don't know). The following is not directed at you as I don't know your views, but based on what I've been hearing from fans/media.

Is it really such an indictment only 6 of Sashi's picks are still here as so many have mentioned? Not like he got rid of them. Also at least 3 other teams wanted them as they were traded for, not released - Peppers, Kizer, Ogbah.

Have you checked out Dorsey's first 2 drafts in KC? How about all his drafts there. Sashi's first 2 are far better. Looks to me like only a couple of Dorsey's picks his first 2 seasons are still even in the NFL. Don't like Kessler? How about Aaron Murray?

2013 Kansas City Chiefs Draftees | Pro-Football-Reference.com

The rest of his picks in his 5 drafts? Not very good, especially if you take out the guys who may have hit women or children - Peters, Hill and Hunt.

This isn't an indictment on Dorsey as I like him in his role here. He did an exceptional job his first season. Of course, having the 1,4 and 2 high picks in round 2 helped.....along with a ton of cap room and no bad contracts. All courtesy of Sashi. I also believe the good and bad of the draft was probably more Andrew Berry. Didn't Sashi say his role was listen to the football guys and break ties?

 

[Shanemansj13]

I've probably said it before, but not sure. I do like Dorsey and want him in this job. However, the "everything Sashi bad, everything Dorsey good" mantra is absurd to me (not saying that's you as I don't know). The following is not directed at you as I don't know your views, but based on what I've been hearing from fans/media.

Is it really such an indictment only 6 of Sashi's picks are still here as so many have mentioned? Not like he got rid of them. Also at least 3 other teams wanted them as they were traded for, not released - Peppers, Kizer, Ogbah.

Have you checked out Dorsey's first 2 drafts in KC? How about all his drafts there. Sashi's first 2 are far better. Looks to me like only a couple of Dorsey's picks his first 2 seasons are still even in the NFL. Don't like Kessler? How about Aaron Murray?

2013 Kansas City Chiefs Draftees | Pro-Football-Reference.com

The rest of his picks in his 5 drafts? Not very good, especially if you take out the guys who may have hit women or children - Peters, Hill and Hunt.

This isn't an indictment on Dorsey as I like him in his role here. He did an exceptional job his first season. Of course, having the 1,4 and 2 high picks in round 2 helped.....along with a ton of cap room and no bad contracts. All courtesy of Sashi. I also believe the good and bad of the draft was probably more Andrew Berry. Didn't Sashi say his role was listen to the football guys and break ties?

It is definitely overblown a bit but no really and for good reason. Dorsey got his franchise QB, Sashi had time and he didn't get it done.
But the Mayfield - Ward combo is really hard to beat and that one draft can make a franchise. Pair that with the Garrett pick (yeah it was a #1) and those are 3 franchise guys for the next 10 years.

Dorsey's drafts - KC
2013 - Fisher - still starts but isn't great
Kelce - the best TE in the NFL
2014 - Dee Ford turning into a very good player
2015 - Peters was one of the best CB's in the football
Nelson and Conley are starters now.
2016 - Chris Jones had 15 sacks last year, really coming on.
Tyreek Hill - one of the best WR's in the NFL. late pick

Dorsey drafts - CLE
2017 - Garrett, Peppers (helped in OBJ trade), Njoku, Ogunjobi - all starters and big pieces to this young team
2018 - Mayfield - franchise QB
Ward - lockdown CB
Chubb - starting RB
Avery and Callaway looking like good potential guys.
Corbett and Chad THomas to be continued...

Nobody is going to hit every draft or every pick, that is just a fact. THat list is pretty damn good and his moves in FA seemed to be overall pretty good too. Add that to the fact what he has already done in Cleveland and that is more than Sashi Brown ever did but it helps getting that franchise QB. Although, Sashi got more hate than he should of but it's bc he didn't fit those guys with "it factors"

Sashi drafts, 2013 and 2016:

2013 - Mingo was a bust. No other good picks
2014 - Gilbert and Manziel - awful picks.
Kirksey and Bitonio very good picks and starters.
2015 - Shelton - good pick, didn't do anything in CLE though.
Erving - not a good pick in the 1st
Duke Johnson - pretty good pick and value
2016 - Schobert and Higgins - very good picks and value.
Coleman - huge bust.
Ogbah - a decent player but hasn't lived up to the hype and traded for that reason.

I'm really not sure what you are seeing but Dorsey had better drafts in KC bc he found those franchise guys and pro-bowl and all-pro players. What looks like he is going to do in Cleveland. The difference is big.

 

[dtgold88]

It is definitely overblown a bit but no really and for good reason. Dorsey got his franchise QB, Sashi had time and he didn't get it done.
But the Mayfield - Ward combo is really hard to beat and that one draft can make a franchise. Pair that with the Garrett pick (yeah it was a #1) and those are 3 franchise guys for the next 10 years.

Dorsey's drafts - KC
2013 - Fisher - still starts but isn't great
Kelce - the best TE in the NFL
2014 - Dee Ford turning into a very good player
2015 - Peters was one of the best CB's in the football
Nelson and Conley are starters now.
2016 - Chris Jones had 15 sacks last year, really coming on.
Tyreek Hill - one of the best WR's in the NFL. late pick

Dorsey drafts - CLE
2017 - Garrett, Peppers (helped in OBJ trade), Njoku, Ogunjobi - all starters and big pieces to this young team
2018 - Mayfield - franchise QB
Ward - lockdown CB
Chubb - starting RB
Avery and Callaway looking like good potential guys.
Corbett and Chad THomas to be continued...

Nobody is going to hit every draft or every pick, that is just a fact. THat list is pretty damn good and his moves in FA seemed to be overall pretty good too. Add that to the fact what he has already done in Cleveland and that is more than Sashi Brown ever did but it helps getting that franchise QB. Although, Sashi got more hate than he should of but it's bc he didn't fit those guys with "it factors"

Sashi drafts, 2013 and 2016:

2013 - Mingo was a bust. No other good picks
2014 - Gilbert and Manziel - awful picks.
Kirksey and Bitonio very good picks and starters.
2015 - Shelton - good pick, didn't do anything in CLE though.
Erving - not a good pick in the 1st
Duke Johnson - pretty good pick and value
2016 - Schobert and Higgins - very good picks and value.
Coleman - huge bust.
Ogbah - a decent player but hasn't lived up to the hype and traded for that reason.

I'm really not sure what you are seeing but Dorsey had better drafts in KC bc he found those franchise guys and pro-bowl and all-pro players. What looks like he is going to do in Cleveland. The difference is big.

I can see why you might say this but all due respect your facts are way off. Sashi only drafted in 2016 and 2017. The studs you credited to Dorsey for 2017 were picked by Sashi.

So let's compare their ACTUAL first 2 drafts (2013 and 2014 for Dorsey, 2016 and 2017 for Sashi). Let's also keep in mind Dorsey had 20 years of experience and Sashi had none......

sashi - shoebert, Kindred, Higgins, Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Ogunjobi. And, while Peppers was solid and used to get OBJ, don't forget Kizer was used to get Randall. And, of course, in this draft Sashi acquired the pick Dorsey used on Ward (he also acquired the pick used on Chubb in the offseason). Guess we could count Nassib who played well for TB because Dorsey cut him.

Dorsey - Fisher, Kelce, Ford

Again, I ask, comparing apples to apples, who did better in their first 2 drafts?

 

[Shanemansj13]

I can see why you might say this but all due respect your facts are way off. Sashi only drafted in 2016 and 2017. The studs you credited to Dorsey for 2017 were picked by Sashi.

So let's compare their ACTUAL first 2 drafts (2013 and 2014 for Dorsey, 2016 and 2017 for Sashi). Let's also keep in mind Dorsey had 20 years of experience and Sashi had none......

sashi - shoebert, Kindred, Higgins, Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Ogunjobi. And, while Peppers was solid and used to get OBJ, don't forget Kizer was used to get Randall. And, of course, in this draft Sashi acquired the pick Dorsey used on Ward (he also acquired the pick used on Chubb in the offseason). Guess we could count Nassib who played well for TB because Dorsey cut him.

Dorsey - Fisher, Kelce, Ford

Again, I ask, comparing apples to apples, who did better in their first 2 drafts?

2013 - Fisher - still starts but isn't great
Kelce - the best TE in the NFL
2014 - Dee Ford turning into a very good player
2015 - Peters was one of the best CB's in the football
Nelson and Conley are starters now.
2016 - Chris Jones had 15 sacks last year, really coming on.
Tyreek Hill - one of the best WR's in the NFL. late pick

Dorsey still got Kelce - best TE in the NFL. Peters - was a top 3-5 CB in the NFL. Hill - one of the best WR's in the league. Those are STARS. Just bc Sashi only got two years doesn't mean we can't compare their track records bc that is the one of the main reasons the Browns hired Dorsey. His experience.

Then Sashi got Garrett, number 1 pick, and some very good starters for now. The only STAR right now would be Garrett. So he only had two years to five. Fine. But I really don't see a big difference.

I don't think it was like Sashi didn't get it done but it's just Dorsey had more experience, a better track record and knows how to build a team. The Hue Jackson hire wasn't exactly a great one for Sashi. I get what you are saying and Dorsey was set up for success. Both seem to hit homeruns in the draft but Dorsey has proved time and time again with his track record he is a guy that can be trusted and can make big-time moves in FA. Overall Dorsey is a much better GM. I get what you are saying though.

 

[dtgold88]

2013 - Fisher - still starts but isn't great
Kelce - the best TE in the NFL
2014 - Dee Ford turning into a very good player
2015 - Peters was one of the best CB's in the football
Nelson and Conley are starters now.
2016 - Chris Jones had 15 sacks last year, really coming on.
Tyreek Hill - one of the best WR's in the NFL. late pick

Dorsey still got Kelce - best TE in the NFL. Peters - was a top 3-5 CB in the NFL. Hill - one of the best WR's in the league. Those are STARS. Just bc Sashi only got two years doesn't mean we can't compare their track records bc that is the one of the main reasons the Browns hired Dorsey. His experience.

Then Sashi got Garrett, number 1 pick, and some very good starters for now. The only STAR right now would be Garrett. So he only had two years to five. Fine. But I really don't see a big difference.

I don't think it was like Sashi didn't get it done but it's just Dorsey had more experience, a better track record and knows how to build a team. The Hue Jackson hire wasn't exactly a great one for Sashi. I get what you are saying and Dorsey was set up for success. Both seem to hit homeruns in the draft but Dorsey has proved time and time again with his track record he is a guy that can be trusted and can make big-time moves in FA. Overall Dorsey is a much better GM. I get what you are saying though.

Don't get me wrong, I'm good with the Dorsey hire. would be nice if they could have kept Sashi in the same department as Paul D but someone had to be the scapegoat for 1-31.

My only issue is with those who think Sashi could do no right and Dorsey can do no wrong. Peters and Ford are no longer on KC as Dorsey wasn't exactly the best when it came to managing the kept. He overpaid some on second deals....especially those he drafted (like Fisher, for instance). Sashi was excellent with the cap and knew what guys were worth (with help from Paul D I'm certain).

And while he didn't pick him if Sashi didn't acquire the picks used on Ward and Chubb Dorsey cannot pick those guys.

Since Hue was kept AFTER sashi was let go I have to think his hire was more Haslem than Sashi. In fact, in the ESPN story after the season this was mentioned. Cannot recall who they wanted, but the new regime did not want Hue.

My concern with Dorsey is coming true a little, but we'll see how it plays out. He has an ego and wants guys he picked. If you are here and he didn't pick you it's time to rent and not own.

 

[Stomp]

 

[Across The Field]

Don't get me wrong, I'm good with the Dorsey hire. would be nice if they could have kept Sashi in the same department as Paul D but someone had to be the scapegoat for 1-31.

My only issue is with those who think Sashi could do no right and Dorsey can do no wrong. Peters and Ford are no longer on KC as Dorsey wasn't exactly the best when it came to managing the kept. He overpaid some on second deals....especially those he drafted (like Fisher, for instance). Sashi was excellent with the cap and knew what guys were worth (with help from Paul D I'm certain).

And while he didn't pick him if Sashi didn't acquire the picks used on Ward and Chubb Dorsey cannot pick those guys.

Since Hue was kept AFTER sashi was let go I have to think his hire was more Haslem than Sashi. In fact, in the ESPN story after the season this was mentioned. Cannot recall who they wanted, but the new regime did not want Hue.

My concern with Dorsey is coming true a little, but we'll see how it plays out. He has an ego and wants guys he picked. If you are here and he didn't pick you it's time to rent and not own.

I think you and I had this discussion some time ago. Dorsey's drafts in KC were pretty masterful. It's not about having high or low picks, it's about consistently drafting guys that are difference-makers, and he unquestionably did that in KC.

A lot of people questioned moving up for Mahomes, but now he's the MVP.

Kelce, Hunt, Hill were all mid-round guys that made major impacts for the team.

Dee Ford and Marcus Peters were late-first rounders that turned out to be great picks.

Conley, Nelson, Murray were late round guys that ended up playing meaningful snaps and playing decently.

And again, you can't discount his time in GB and the impact he had on helping build one of the most consistently good franchises of the 2000s. Notice that since he left in 2012, and the players he helped bring in are getting older and/or leaving the team, they're in decline, while at the same time the Chiefs have made the playoffs the same amount of times the last 4 years as they did in the previous 16 years. The guy knows how to build teams, and it's not by just having early round picks "handed to him".

 

[Clayton]

I think you and I had this discussion some time ago. Dorsey's drafts in KC were pretty masterful. It's not about having high or low picks, it's about consistently drafting guys that are difference-makers, and he unquestionably did that in KC.

A lot of people questioned moving up for Mahomes, but now he's the MVP.

Kelce, Hunt, Hill were all mid-round guys that made major impacts for the team.

Dee Ford and Marcus Peters were late-first rounders that turned out to be great picks.

Conley, Nelson, Murray were late round guys that ended up playing meaningful snaps and playing decently.

And again, you can't discount his time in GB and the impact he had on helping build one of the most consistently good franchises of the 2000s. Notice that since he left in 2012, and the players he helped bring in are getting older and/or leaving the team, they're in decline, while at the same time the Chiefs have made the playoffs the same amount of times the last 4 years as they did in the previous 16 years. The guy knows how to build teams, and it's not by just having early round picks "handed to him".

The current Chiefs GM certainly deserves a lot of credit for Mahomes.

Hunt, Ford, Peters, Conley, Nelson and Murray were all guys who didn't get money after their rookie contract. There is a possibility that Hill is on that list, too.

Its a house of cards.

 

[Shanemansj13]

The current Chiefs GM certainly deserves a lot of credit for Mahomes.

Hunt, Ford, Peters, Conley, Nelson and Murray were all guys who didn't get money after their rookie contract. There is a possibility that Hill is on that list, too.

Its a house of cards.

Still productive players otherwise. Didn't Dorsey draft Mahomes?

 

[Clayton]

Still productive players otherwise. Didn't Dorsey draft Mahomes?

They are fairly productive players but apparently none of them are 'core' players that you can build a team around except Kelce, Mahomes and maybe Hill.

And Dorsey deserves credit for Mahomes but Veach was the one pounding the table for him. I also like many of the moves Dorsey has made on the Browns but we'll see where they are at in three years.