The 2019 NFL Free Agency/Trade Thread

[Across The Field]

The current Chiefs GM certainly deserves a lot of credit for Mahomes.

Hunt, Ford, Peters, Conley, Nelson and Murray were all guys who didn't get money after their rookie contract. There is a possibility that Hill is on that list, too.

Its a house of cards.

Ford, Conley, and Nelson got money, just not with KC. Hunt would have if not for his incident, and I still expect him to next year. He wasn't even close to the end of his rookie contract when he was released. Murray is still on his rookie contract, and Peters is on his option year, so he's not eligible for FA money til 2020. 5 of the 7 players you mentioned were 3rd round picks or later, which are hardly ever a guarantee to get money after their rookie deal, let alone even a likelihood. Not sure how this is a house of cards by any means.

Perhaps you could've signed Ford if not for your current GM backing the Brinks truck up to your current #2 WR.

 

[dtgold88]

I think you and I had this discussion some time ago. Dorsey's drafts in KC were pretty masterful. It's not about having high or low picks, it's about consistently drafting guys that are difference-makers, and he unquestionably did that in KC.

A lot of people questioned moving up for Mahomes, but now he's the MVP.

Kelce, Hunt, Hill were all mid-round guys that made major impacts for the team.

Dee Ford and Marcus Peters were late-first rounders that turned out to be great picks.

Conley, Nelson, Murray were late round guys that ended up playing meaningful snaps and playing decently.

And again, you can't discount his time in GB and the impact he had on helping build one of the most consistently good franchises of the 2000s. Notice that since he left in 2012, and the players he helped bring in are getting older and/or leaving the team, they're in decline, while at the same time the Chiefs have made the playoffs the same amount of times the last 4 years as they did in the previous 16 years. The guy knows how to build teams, and it's not by just having early round picks "handed to him".

why don't we compare apples to apples and look at Dorsey's first 2 drafts in KC to Sashi's 2 here. No way you can think Sashi's were not far better. In fact, Sashi's drafts also brought extra picks Dorsey had when he got here.....and, yes, this is with all that experience he had drafting in GB. Sashi had no experience and was still better.

2013 Kansas City Chiefs Draftees | Pro-Football-Reference.com

If I'm counting right, Dorsey has 3-4 guys from these drafts who are still in the NFL. Only a few ever did anything for the Chiefs

Are Peters and Hunt still great? They dumped them for attitude (or worse) issues. We'll see how Hill plays out.

Don't get me wrong. I like Dorsey. But the notion everything he does is reat and everything Sashi did was wrong is comical at this point since without Sashi's work Dorsey doesn't come here.

 

[dtgold88]

Still productive players otherwise. Didn't Dorsey draft Mahomes?

He did. I think he had 5 drafts there? Pretty good when it came to taking chances on guys, though if all are gone - Peters, Hunt and not sure yet about Hill - are they still good picks?

 

[Clayton]

Ford, Conley, and Nelson got money, just not with KC. Hunt would have if not for his incident, and I still expect him to next year. He wasn't even close to the end of his rookie contract when he was released. Murray is still on his rookie contract, and Peters is on his option year, so he's not eligible for FA money til 2020. Not sure how this is a house of cards by any means.

Perhaps you could've signed Ford if not for your current GM backing the Brinks truck up to your current #2 WR.

How is it not a house of cards? None of those guys were considered core players.

Steven Nelson earned a sub 60 grade in PFF in four of his last five games which is actually more consistent with his production throughout his career in KC. I think this idea that he is a good player is still very much in doubt. Same with Murray who was a rotation S traded for a rotation DE.

Peters is one of the least popular players in the NFL for better or worse. Reid had to bench him at one point. He was a PI machine in KC along with being a ball hawk and a garbage tackler. He was a nobody in LA. For a first round pick, he is spectacularly average.

Ford was basically nothing in run defense. If you watch the playoff game against the Steelers, the Steelers ran at him routinely for big chunks of yards. Ford did get better and I think he is a good pass rusher but at what cost? Chiefs run D was trash and Ford is lining up in east jesus trying to get at the QB (or worse lining up offsides) so imo Ford's positives are almost outweighed by his negatives and thats before factoring in the injury risk. I think its possible that Ford actually is a stud and he was in the wrong scheme so we'll see how he does in SF but I would've been really upset if they gave him a big contract.

Hunt is a great player but the Chiefs actually replaced his production last year with someone off the street basically. Not sure how to factor in RBs in today's NFL but it was certainly a black eye to the Chiefs organization to draft him.

 

[dtgold88]

How is it not a house of cards? None of those guys were considered core players.

Steven Nelson earned a sub 60 grade in PFF in four of his last five games which is actually more consistent with his production throughout his career in KC. I think this idea that he is a good player is still very much in doubt. Same with Murray who was a rotation S traded for a rotation DE.

Peters is one of the least popular players in the NFL for better or worse. Reid had to bench him at one point. He was a PI machine in KC along with being a ball hawk and a garbage tackler. He was a nobody in LA. For a first round pick, he is spectacularly average.

Ford was basically nothing in run defense. If you watch the playoff game against the Steelers, the Steelers ran at him routinely for big chunks of yards. Ford did get better and I think he is a good pass rusher but at what cost? Chiefs run D was trash and Ford is lining up in east jesus trying to get at the QB (or worse lining up offsides) so imo Ford's positives are almost outweighed by his negatives and thats before factoring in the injury risk. I think its possible that Ford actually is a stud and he was in the wrong scheme so we'll see how he does in SF but I would've been really upset if they gave him a big contract.

Hunt is a great player but the Chiefs actually replaced his production last year with someone off the street basically. Not sure how to factor in RBs in today's NFL but it was certainly a black eye to the Chiefs organization to draft him.

As I have said..I think Dorsey is a decent GM. My only issue has been those who think he was so much better in the draft than Sashi was here. Never mind it's likely Andrew Berry was the guy making picks here with Sashi breaking ties.

 

[Clayton]

As I have said..I think Dorsey is a decent GM. My only issue has been those who think he was so much better in the draft than Sashi was here. Never mind it's likely Andrew Berry was the guy making picks here with Sashi breaking ties.

I do think he is a decent GM. I think he is in the same ballpark as the Rams GM, the Falcons GM and the Steelers GM. Proven to be decent but certainly not infallible.

 

[Across The Field]

why don't we compare apples to apples and look at Dorsey's first 2 drafts in KC to Sashi's 2 here. No way you can think Sashi's were not far better. In fact, Sashi's drafts also brought extra picks Dorsey had when he got here.....and, yes, this is with all that experience he had drafting in GB. Sashi had no experience and was still better.

2013 Kansas City Chiefs Draftees | Pro-Football-Reference.com

If I'm counting right, Dorsey has 3-4 guys from these drafts who are still in the NFL. Only a few ever did anything for the Chiefs

Are Peters and Hunt still great? They dumped them for attitude (or worse) issues. We'll see how Hill plays out.

Don't get me wrong. I like Dorsey. But the notion everything he does is reat and everything Sashi did was wrong is comical at this point since without Sashi's work Dorsey doesn't come here.

You're comparing Sashi's two drafts, where he had 4 first round picks, 2 second round picks, and 4 third round picks to Dorsey's first two drafts where he had 2 first round picks, 0 2nd round picks, and 3 third round picks. How on earth are you comparing apples to apples here?

And at least five of them are still active.

 

[Shanemansj13]

He did. I think he had 5 drafts there? Pretty good when it came to taking chances on guys, though if all are gone - Peters, Hunt and not sure yet about Hill - are they still good picks?

Bc they are all gone they aren't good picks? lol Hunt and Hill - had off the field issues but still VERY productive. Peters was a beast on KC and they obviously didn't want to pay him. Has nothing to do if they were productive players bc they didn't fork it up, off-the-field issues, etc.

 

[Shanemansj13]

You're comparing Sashi's two drafts, where he had 4 first round picks, 2 second round picks, and 4 third round picks to Dorsey's first two drafts where he had 2 first round picks, 0 2nd round picks, and 3 third round picks. How on earth are you comparing apples to apples here?

And at least five of them are still active.

Also, to point out bc Sashi only was a GM for two years we can only count Dorsey's resume for two years. Doesn't make sense. The reason why the Browns brought in Dorsey was bc of his experience and proven track record of building a team up to be competitive.

 

[dtgold88]

You're comparing Sashi's two drafts, where he had 4 first round picks, 2 second round picks, and 4 third round picks to Dorsey's first two drafts where he had 2 first round picks, 0 2nd round picks, and 3 third round picks. How on earth are you comparing apples to apples here?

And at least five of them are still active.

Well, guess what....Dorsey gets a ton of credit for his draft here where he had 4 picks in the top 35 and another in round 3. Know who got him the extra picks?

But OK, go ahead and just evaluate Dorsey's first draft. Star in Kelce and a bust at #1 who he overpaid to stay. The rest are garbage.

 

[dtgold88]

Bc they are all gone they aren't good picks? lol Hunt and Hill - had off the field issues but still VERY productive. Peters was a beast on KC and they obviously didn't want to pay him. Has nothing to do if they were productive players bc they didn't fork it up, off-the-field issues, etc.

Might be good picks, but not for the team who picked them if they are gone.

 

[Across The Field]

How is it not a house of cards? None of those guys were considered core players.

Steven Nelson earned a sub 60 grade in PFF in four of his last five games which is actually more consistent with his production throughout his career in KC. I think this idea that he is a good player is still very much in doubt. Same with Murray who was a rotation S traded for a rotation DE.

Peters is one of the least popular players in the NFL for better or worse. Reid had to bench him at one point. He was a PI machine in KC along with being a ball hawk and a garbage tackler. He was a nobody in LA. For a first round pick, he is spectacularly average.

Ford was basically nothing in run defense. If you watch the playoff game against the Steelers, the Steelers ran at him routinely for big chunks of yards. Ford did get better and I think he is a good pass rusher but at what cost? Chiefs run D was trash and Ford is lining up in east jesus trying to get at the QB (or worse lining up offsides) so imo Ford's positives are almost outweighed by his negatives and thats before factoring in the injury risk. I think its possible that Ford actually is a stud and he was in the wrong scheme so we'll see how he does in SF but I would've been really upset if they gave him a big contract.

Hunt is a great player but the Chiefs actually replaced his production last year with someone off the street basically. Not sure how to factor in RBs in today's NFL but it was certainly a black eye to the Chiefs organization to draft him.

Not core players for KC, I suppose. They all still produced, and again, 5 of the 7 guys you mentioned were mid round or later picks.

KC overreacted to the Hunt situation, otherwise he's undoubtedly a core player for them. I think he still has a bright future. Peters, it is what it is. He was a player drafted in the second half of the first round, you can find dozens of examples in recent years of guys like these not panning out. He wasn't perfect, but as you mentioned, he was still a ballhawk. Hard to discount the impact of a guy that was a 2-time pro bowler, DROY, and before last season was one of the better DBs in the NFL. From 2015-2017, he had more INTs than anyone in the NFL, and only AJ Bouye allowed a lower passer rating in coverage.

Ford definitely has high potential, and he's still young. I think he has a big impact in SF.

 

[dtgold88]

Also, to point out bc Sashi only was a GM for two years we can only count Dorsey's resume for two years. Doesn't make sense. The reason why the Browns brought in Dorsey was bc of his experience and proven track record of building a team up to be competitive.

count all his drafts in KC if you want. They were at best good.

 

[dtgold88]

Not core players for KC, I suppose. They all still produced, and again, 5 of the 7 guys you mentioned were mid round or later picks.

KC overreacted to the Hunt situation, otherwise he's undoubtedly a core player for them. I think he still has a bright future. Peters, it is what it is. He was a player drafted in the second half of the first round, you can find dozens of examples in recent years of guys like these not panning out. He wasn't perfect, but as you mentioned, he was still a ballhawk. Hard to discount the impact of a guy that was a 2-time pro bowler, DROY, and before last season was one of the better DBs in the NFL. From 2015-2017, he had more INTs than anyone in the NFL, and only AJ Bouye allowed a lower passer rating in coverage.

Ford definitely has high potential, and he's still young. I think he has a big impact in SF.

why do you make excuses and prop up Dorsey picks but try to lessen Sashi picks. I happen to agree those were definitely solid picks by Dorsey.

Sashi botched one pick based on where he was taken in 2 drafts. Corey Coleman. No others were bad picks based on where chosen.

And you still ignore what seems obvious.....Andrew Berry was making picks. Sashi just broke ties. At some point can you address this?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Might be good picks, but not for the team who picked them if they are gone.

The issues with those players nothing to do with how good the players are though

 

[Clayton]

KC overreacted to the Hunt situation, otherwise he's undoubtedly a core player for them.

You lie to your boss about something important you get fired. Thats how the world works.

I'm sure if you did a poll you would find that most people would agree with what KC did and disagree with what the Browns did when they picked him up.

 

[dtgold88]

The issues with those players nothing to do with how good the players are though

But the only reason he got them was because they had issues. If he couldn't keep them did the picks help KC?

 

[dtgold88]

You lie to your boss about something important you get fired. Thats how the world works.

I'm sure if you did a poll you would find that most people would agree with what KC did and disagree with what the Browns did when they picked him up.

I think you are probably right...but I'm good with what the Browns did. And after I saw the video - but before the Browns picked him up - I thought someone should sign him.

 

[Shanemansj13]

why do you make excuses and prop up Dorsey picks but try to lessen Sashi picks. I happen to agree those were definitely solid picks by Dorsey.

Sashi botched one pick based on where he was taken in 2 drafts. Corey Coleman. No others were bad picks based on where chosen.

And you still ignore what seems obvious.....Andrew Berry was making picks. Sashi just broke ties. At some point can you address this?

Seems like you are actually propping up Sashi with a short track record a ton of high round draft picks. Dorsey didn't have many high draft picks and still got some great pieces. Of course Dorsey is being propped up, he did more or the same with less and his track record speaks for itself. Sashi had one pretty good draft with a ton of high picks. The only draft Dorsey had with high picks for the Browns he hit GOLD.

Comparing Sashi to Dorsey is kind of a joke and that isn't anything against Sashi. Bc he was pretty good in his short stint.

 

[Across The Field]

Well, guess what....Dorsey gets a ton of credit for his draft here where he had 4 picks in the top 35 and another in round 3. Know who got him the extra picks?

But OK, go ahead and just evaluate Dorsey's first draft. Star in Kelce and a bust at #1 who he overpaid to stay. The rest are garbage.

And as of right now, it's looking like Dorsey's draft this year is an absolute all-star cast.

In Sashi's 2 drafts, we drafted 24 guys. Out of those guys, only Garrett is a bonafide star. Njoku could be good, but he's still got some kinks to work out. Peppers has been good for about 8 out of 32 games so far, and was a wreck in 2017. Kizer's only value was Dorsey inexplicably being able to get GB to give us Randall for him - still one of the most mind-boggling trades in recent years. Kizer is horrible. Ogbah was a letdown in Cleveland for his draft spot, while Ogunjobi and Higgins have been decent.

So out of 24 guys, 5-6 of them ever actually did anything good in Cleveland. Out of Dorsey's 9 picks in 2018, 4 are studs (Baker, Ward, Chubb, Avery), Calloway looks like a potential stud down the road, and Corbett is an unknown but has been getting a lot of praise this offseason from the coaching staff.